french spaa AMX VCI with M55 turret

[CaID 8,992]

 

i would like to suggest a tank that is often presented as a AMX 13 with a quad 20mm but is none of those. it's in fact a APC tank based on the AMX 13 who is called the AMX VCI and the quad 20mm turret is in fact the American turret M55 like those used in WW2 on the M3 half track and is actually armed with 12.7mm M2HB. (yes, Wikipedia and Tank Encyclopedia can be sloppy when it come to identify the tanks)

 

first the mistake can be explained by a simple mistake from the web site www.chars-francais.net who put this precise picture above in the wrong article next to the actual AMX VCI with a twin 20mm turret which prove that the so called expert may sometime be wrong. here is a little chart to explain the AMX 13 family. the AMX 13 was based on the AMX 12T but the original AMX 13 with the FL-10 turret is the father of the AMX 13 family. the AMX 13 was soon modified and upgraded to fill various role wich include the SPAA role, training role, Colonial defense, light tank, Reconnaissance tank and tank hunter. but the the than was unfit for the APC role unless it received some major modification. the FL-10 turret was remove entirely and the rear completely modified to host a passenger compartment. a simple LMG was mounted in a small turret for the defense of the new APC tank. the new tank was called the AMX VCI (vehicles de combat d'infantry).

 

 

 

 

the AMX VCI is often called the AMX 13 VCI due to the relation with the AMX 13 family. the AMX VCI was soon modified to fill various of role while sometime also been a APC. a single 20mm gun in a remote turret is often placed and presented as the standard for the AMX VCI and was simply offering a bit more firepower to support the infantry. amounts of those modification there was also the two 20mm for the airdefense and ATGM for tank hunter.

 

 

amounts of all those variant, one was know to mount the M55 quad 12.7mm which was used in Vietnam war. the mount was know to be light, small and fitting about everywhere. the guns are usually M2HB 12.7mm Machine gun. but the Israeli was know to use those turret with 20mm but not the french. the mount do not need particular modification as the recoil of the gun are relatively low compared to the 20mm or tanks guns and do not fix stabilization when the mount is towed. the M55 is often mounted on a small trailer and that trailer can be drop at any time and the turret can be used without any preparation. in the case of the AMX VCI, the month in the turret permanently which could be installed in the field with small crane and blow torch.

http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/M45_Mount.jpeg

 

the origine of the modificaiton is uncertain as there is no record of it. only the photo prove the modification was made. according to the fashion of the men and the other vehicles around, the photo was taken in the early 70s during a exposition (serial civilian around, not two tank identical, every vehicles is relatively clean, some vehicles are from another decade), the uniform of the men, the camouflage of the tank and the identification of the tank prove the tank to be french and most likely still in service at the moment of the picture. as in the mid 70s, the conventional anti-aircraft cannon was slowly removed in favor of Anti-air missiles and only the radar guided cannon remained a bit longer in services, the AMX VCI with the M55 month is likely to had been converted to another kind of AMX VCI before 1980

Specifications
Weight	15.0 tonnes
Length	5.7 m
Width	2.67 m
Height	2.41m
Crew	3 + 10 passengers
Armor	10-40mm
Main armament	4x 12.7 mm machine gun one a M55 month (rotation of 60 degree/sec)
Secondary armament	none
Engine	SOFAM Model 8Gxb 8-cyl. water-cooled petrol
Power/weight	16.7/tonne
Suspension	Torsion-bar
Operational range	350 km
Speed	60 km/h

 

Source

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/AMX-VCI.php

https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/engins-blindes/engins-divers?task=view&id=43

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-VCI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M45_Quadmount

Edited December 16, 2021 by CaID

[Radom 4,245]

Open for discussion. 

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

A good SPAA for France? Gib! 

 

+1

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

i have an AMX... i have an M16... i have an AMX 16... uh!

yeah i couldn't help it. #stalememes

 

 

+1. it's M16 on an APC variant of the AMX-13.

[CaID 8,992]

3 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

i have an AMX... i have an M16... i have an AMX 16... uh!

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

4 hours ago, CaID said:

 

jesus christ XDDDDDDDDD

[Slipslime 660]

+1 Sure why not

[Baconator100012@psn 929]

Honestly.. this should go straight to the DEVs since the french SPAA is pretty empty.

[CaID 8,992]

7 hours ago, *Baconator100012 said:

Honestly.. this should go straight to the DEVs since the french SPAA is pretty empty.

also as about half of the hull is identical to the AMX-13 and the turret is nearly identical as the one found in the M16 MGMC, the development of this tank in the virtual world, would be fast.

[Baconator100012@psn 929]

4 hours ago, CaID said:

also as about half of the hull is identical to the AMX-13 and the turret is nearly identical as the one found in the M16 MGMC, the development of this tank in the virtual world, would be fast.

Fast peashooters is definitely in the ally of my interest!

[KapitanRedDead 462]

I really think I'm just overlooking it somehow but what BR would people think this vehicle can sit at fine? 

Edited February 20, 2018 by KapitanRedDead

[Alphanoodle 526]

27 minutes ago, KapitanRedDead said:

I really think I'm just overlooking it somehow but what BR would people think this vehicle can sit at fine? 

2.7 or even 3.0 seems reasonable since the M16 MGMC sits at 2.3 and the VCI has better survivability and a fully tracked chassis.

[CaID 8,992]

14 minutes ago, Alphanoodle said:

2.7 or even 3.0 seems reasonable since the M16 MGMC sits at 2.3 and the VCI has better survivability and a fully tracked chassis.

a better top acceleration, better climbing, better average speed, the driver is better protected. i thing this thing would be just fine a little higher BR than the M16. just like you said.

and we got to admit, a quad 12.7mm is not bad against the planes. but do not expect to be useful against tanks (unless they add a real good number of armored car)

 

46 minutes ago, KapitanRedDead said:

I really think I'm just overlooking it somehow but what BR would people think this vehicle can sit at fine? 

 

personally i think the BR is not to the member to decide because the BR is decided from his performance in battle to create a range of vehicles that the tanks that a player is likely to meet while using this tanks. in other word, the BR is relative to the other tanks in game and because of that, the BR can be change when the programmers are revising the balance of the game. this is why i ask the community to vote for the BR of a tank or another

but to my opinion, this one in the current game would do fine at 2.7-3.0 just like Alphanoodle estimated (i bet we calculated exactly the same way)

Edited February 20, 2018 by CaID

[KapitanRedDead 462]

On 2/20/2018 at 4:21 PM, CaID said:

personally i think the BR is not to the member to decide because the BR is decided from his performance in battle to create a range of vehicles that the tanks that a player is likely to meet while using this tanks. in other word, the BR is relative to the other tanks in game and because of that, the BR can be change when the programmers are revising the balance of the game. this is why i ask the community to vote for the BR of a tank or another.

 

Before a vehicle is brought to the game, and even with it being in-game already, there is no reason at all as to why we as a community can't try to find the perfect BR for that vehicle.

 

Most of the time we are looking at a lot of the same stuff the staff is and to somehow imply that the staff team is smarter overall than any of us players just because they are on the team is really hurtful for the people who have played this game for a while and to many players regardless. There are countless players who have spent thousands and thousands of hours on this game and even more people who have spent gigantic amounts of time trying to study the information there is so to discredit their input just because they aren't on the staff is not right at all. 

 

Just because we aren't on the team looking at the numbers on their server doesn't mean we can't debate about a vehicles performance logically and realistically. Which don't forget are never proven to be real no matter what the staff says due to the fact we can never see real in-game overall performance among the players.

 

Plus if I want to be risky about my statement above I'll gladly say to reinforce my idea that a single users experience can be just as important as looking at overall numbers on their server. You can take that however you want and I'm not going to debate it. 

 

With all that aside and getting back on topic lol I would love to see this and other french SPAA's be added so that we can make the new tree much easier for all of the people who are trying to play something fresh and new. Which if you are in fact looking around to find more SPAA's to add I would like to suggest something I consider to be a great idea to be released to go along with this one https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/399417-m16-mgmc-for-the-french-tree/.

 

I think both of these suggestions should go together and are both great ideas to be implemented as an extremely cheap premium to help boost sales for overall game growth long term. Not both premium of course. We don't need that many premiums when there is a bare bones tree but I really think either one could really help prove my idea which is that if we made more special and unique redesigns of things we have in-game it would help create a nice flow of cheap premiums that still look really interesting and have a history behind it to help reinforce the "gemme gemme" factor. It's all just more things to lure in those mostly F2P players and what is better then really cheap and unique looking vehicles that aren't trashcan level vehicles. 

 

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

+1

I'd rather be in favor of implementing this rare vehicle as opposed to an American MGMC substitute. For its BR I believe around 2.7 is appropriate, the armor and firepower just aren't enough to justify a higher place. 

[Milocat 4,848]

+1.  This would be a great SPAA for France.

[TheLastYouSee__@psn 281]

this would be a very nice addition to the french SPAA tree at a low tier. the variant with the dual 20mms would also be very nice for mid-high tier

[onemax9000 1,242]

+1 why not

[Wolf_89 2,524]

Yes pls on all of them

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

Hey @CaID I thought this page could use some TLC, so here's a version of the AMX VCI M45 photo I spruced up, so you're welcome to use it for your suggestion, if you're interested:

 

 

And here's the original and unedited upscale:

Spoiler

 

 

I hope to see this puppy sooner than later!! After China got the CCKW M45, I'm all ready for it!!!

Edited March 2, 2021 by MaddDawg90

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

Oh, and here's a fixed link to the broken one for DCA 20mm bitube:

https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/9-archives/de-1945-1990/42-amx-13-dca

Edited February 27, 2021 by MaddDawg90

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

+1 We need more French SPAA's ingame

[Cedjoe 5,482]

We need more early SPAAs 

+1

[hienapunk 1,064]

France needs IFV's +1

[KilianL 865]

iirc France used M16 MGMCs but this unique indigenous SPAA serve the same purpose : +1