T-54A

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

East-German T-54A

 

 

Hello everyone, this is my very first vehicle suggestion, so be warned!

 

The T-54A used by east-Germany was licence built in Poland and exported to the GDR for a unit-price of 433.376 German D-Mark (253.502 Dollars). Between 1959 to 1961 the GDR bought and received a total of 148 T-54As from Poland. The T-54A was primarely armed with the 100mm D-10TG L/56 tank-cannon.

The biggest difference of the T-54A to the standard T-54 was the STP-1 "Horizont" vertical stabilizer, which stabilized the cannon and coaxial MG when driving, to reduce the up- and down movement of the gun. The stabilizer also made short-stop and fire procedures much more effective. The STP-1 however, did not stabilize the turret horizontally, meaning the T-54A had to drive in a straight line to take advantage of the system. The stabilizer had an elevation and depression speed of 6°/s.

The T-54A utilized the W-54G engine (W-54 with improved filters and G-74 alternator), aswell as a fully electric turret drive. A third, external fuel tank was also added, which increased the fuel-capacity to 810l.

 

Picture:

 

Notice the fume-extractor on the gun (reminiscent of the D-10TG) and the circular NVA marking on the turret. More pictures are appreciated, since it is hard to find actual east-German T-54A pictures.

 

Specification:

 

Crew: 4 (driver/commander/gunner/loader)

Weight: 36T

HP/T Ratio: 14,4

Lenght: 9m (with cannon) 6,04m (without cannon)

Width: 3,27m

Height: 2,75m (with roof-mounted MG)

Engine: V12 Diesel "W-54G"

Max Speed: 50km/h (road)

Hull armor in mm (front/rear/sides/bottom): 100/46/80/20

Turret armor in mm (front/roof): 200/39

Armament: 1x 100mm D-10TG cannon

                   1x 7,62x54Rmm SGMT coaxial MG

                   1x 12,7x108mm DSchK Roof-mounted MG

Elevation: +17°/-6°

 

 

Ammunition used:

 

BK-12M HEAT-FS

UBR-412D APCBC

UBR-412 APHE

UBR-412B APHEBC

UOF-412 HE

 

Thanks a lot for reading and if you spot a mistake, or want to add something, feel free to post it down below so I can include it in the suggestion.

 

Cheers

 

Sources:

http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.de/

http://www.panzer-modell.de/

"Kampfpanzer der NVA" by Jörg Siegert/Helmut Hanske (Motor buch Verlag) https://www.amazon.de/Kampfpanzer-NVA-Jörg-Siegert/dp/3613032945

Edited June 24, 2021 by Stuhlfleisch
Added poll.

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

Don't want a copy paste so no.

[CK_16 791]

I would agree if they make it so you cannot have Leopard's with this...Aka you pick either East Germany or West not both...

[Borotovas 4,500]

6 hours ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

Don't want a copy paste so no.

 

It's not a copy and paste.

 

East Germany definitely needs more tanks. It's annoying how all the tanks Germany gets are American. Where are all the historic GDR vehicles? +1

Edited January 1, 2019 by Borotovas

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

1 hour ago, CK_16 said:

I would agree if they make it so you cannot have Leopard's with this...Aka you pick either East Germany or West not both…

 

I'm just going to Quote myself here regarding east- and west-German match maker:

 

The match maker for RB and SB would seperate them from all west-German vehicles and treat them like Russian ones. That's at least how I could see them being implemented… All west-German vehicles in the same lineup could be greyed out, the same way when you have tanks in your lineup but you play air RB. May aswell have a warning pop up if you have both east- and west-German vehicles in one Lineup, that let's you choose to either play the west- or east-German vehicles.

 

3 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

 

It's not a copy and paste.

 

East Germany definitely needs more tanks. It's annoying how all the tanks Germany gets are American. Where are all the historic GDR vehicles? +1

 

Thanks for your support!

Edited January 1, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[CK_16 791]

33 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

 

It's not a copy and paste.

 

East Germany definitely needs more tanks. It's annoying how all the tanks Germany gets are American. Where are all the historic GDR vehicles? +1

 

It makes more sense for US vehicles to be along side the Domestic productions, plus West Germany usually modified the US vehicles anyway. IE Leopards, NATO standardization compared to just Soviet Knock offs? Once again I stand by no one should be able to have a Leopard 2A4 and T-72M1 in the same line up because "East Germany"....I like the idea that you chose one side or the other...Not best of both sides.

Edited January 1, 2019 by CK_16

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

17 minutes ago, CK_16 said:

 

It makes more sense for US vehicles to be along side the Domestic productions, plus West Germany usually modified the US vehicles anyway. IE Leopards, NATO standardization compared to just Soviet Knock offs? Once again I stand by no one should be able to have a Leopard 2A4 and T-72M1 in the same line up because "East Germany"....I like the idea that you chose one side or the other...Not best of both sides.

To be fair, the T-72M1 is  basically a T-64A from a War Thunder performance standpoint. It only has slightly better armor and would still have 3BM15 as best Shell, since Soviet Russia did not want to Export any more powerful Shells to east-Germany for the 125mm. Comparing that to the Leopard 2A4 is a bit much.

[Borotovas 4,500]

1 hour ago, CK_16 said:

 

It makes more sense for US vehicles to be along side the Domestic productions, plus West Germany usually modified the US vehicles anyway. IE Leopards, NATO standardization compared to just Soviet Knock offs? Once again I stand by no one should be able to have a Leopard 2A4 and T-72M1 in the same line up because "East Germany"....I like the idea that you chose one side or the other...Not best of both sides.

 

Who gets to choose "one side over the other"? Why should I have to be forced to research crappy West German American knock offs?

 

All the West Germans did was add a different kind of radio and all of a sudden it's "WeST gErMaN UnIQuE TäNk". It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

We need to either divide the German tree into East and West, or add every GDR vehicle. 

 

Also here is every country that is in NATO or a NATO ally:

 

1. France

2. UK

3. Japan

4. Italy

5. West Germany

6. USA

 

Every country in the Warsaw Pact:

 

1. USSR 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Borotovas

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

1 hour ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

 

I'm just going to Quote myself here regarding east- and west-German match maker:

 

The match maker for RB and SB would seperate them from all west-German vehicles and treat them like Russian ones. That's at least how I could see them being implemented… All west-German vehicles in the same lineup could be greyed out, the same way when you have tanks in your lineup but you play air RB. May aswell have a warning pop up if you have both east- and west-German vehicles in one Lineup, that let's you choose to either play the west- or east-German vehicles.

 

 

Thanks for your support!

There is only 1 Germany in game as it should be. Separating them would be useless, you would limit a player's options for a "realistic" lineup in an unhistorical game. So what will happen with WW2 Germany then? Maus and T-54 vs Leo 1? 

1 hour ago, Borotovas said:

 

It's not a copy and paste.

 

East Germany definitely needs more tanks. It's annoying how all the tanks Germany gets are American. Where are all the historic GDR vehicles? +1

So where their tanks modified by them? So their T-54A was different from other warsaw pact countries? 

Germany doesn't need any more tanks as of now, it has enough tier 5 tanks. 

And we have the M48A2GA2 as regular because it's a german modification of the M48A2.. it's not a copy paste compared to the T-54. As for the M47 that is premium, sure then, the T54 could be added as a premium.

What does historicity has to do with this? What does it have to do with a own design vehicles game? Or more to say unhistorical. 

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

3 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

 

Who gets to choose "one side over the other"? Why should I have to be forced to research crappy West German American knock offs?

 

All the West Germans did was add a different kind of radio and all of a sudden it's "WeST gErMaN UnIQuE TäNk". It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

We need to either divide the German tree into East and West, or add every GDR vehicle. 

 

Also here is every country that is in NATO or a NATO ally:

 

1. France

2. UK

3. Japan

4. Italy

5. West Germany

6. USA

 

Every country in the Warsaw Pact:

 

1. USSR 

What has that to do with the game? 

NATO vs Warsaw pact. You already have Germany and Japan vs UK and US at top tier and so on. 

Why would we need GDR vehicles when we have homebuilt vehicles to add? Just because they used them? Then USSR, Germany, USA, Italy should get each tanks. Germany used the firefly, USA used some StuGs, USSR used everything allied M4, M3, M5, Valentine, Matilda, etc.

[Borotovas 4,500]

1 hour ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

So where their tanks modified by them? So their T-54A was different from other warsaw pact countries? 

Germany doesn't need any more tanks as of now, it has enough tier 5 tanks. 

And we have the M48A2GA2 as regular because it's a german modification of the M48A2.. it's not a copy paste compared to the T-54. As for the M47 that is premium, sure then, the T54 could be added as a premium.

What does historicity has to do with this? What does it have to do with a own design vehicles game? Or more to say unhistorical. 

 

The T-54A is a Polish built tank, and we do not have that. So, since East Germany is lacking vehicles and used T-54As, it makes sense to add it for the GDR.

 

What other Warsaw Pact countries?  The only Warsaw Pact countries in WT, are the USSR and barely East Germany. The difference is irrelevant, because we have almost no Warsaw Pact countries.

 

East Germany has no tanks, so I don't see how it has "enough" tanks. Makes no sense.

 

M48A2GA2 is a West German modification. West Germany ≠ East Germany. West German does not mean East German.

 

History makes it obvious that East Germany was East German. West Germany was West German. Just because a tank came from West Germany, does not make it East German. There was no "one" Nazi Germany anymore, because the Third Reich was defeated in WWII. The lands of the Third Reich, were divided into many different countries, which are not Germany.

 

 

1 hour ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

What has that to do with the game? 

NATO vs Warsaw pact. You already have Germany and Japan vs UK and US at top tier and so on. 

Why would we need GDR vehicles when we have homebuilt vehicles to add? Just because they used them? Then USSR, Germany, USA, Italy should get each tanks. Germany used the firefly, USA used some StuGs, USSR used everything allied M4, M3, M5, Valentine, Matilda, etc.

 

So you do not want NATO vs. Warsaw Pact? I for one, am not in favor of playing a historically inaccurate fantasy game. So far, all I see is NATO vs. NATO in tier 5 and tier 6 which is silly and does not make any sense.

 

What homebuilt East German vehicles? East Germany is not the same as West Germany. They are two separate countries with different cultures and ideologies and people.

 

That is funny, we are talking about post-WWII vehicles, and you bring up captured tanks from the WWII era, which are completely and utterly irrelevant to this conversation. Maybe I should bring up the Roman Empire, or the Spartans - just as irrelevant. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Borotovas

[WulfPack 1,693]

If I get shorter queue times for sim +1

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

20 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

 

The T-54A is a Polish built tank, and we do not have that. So, since East Germany is lacking vehicles and used T-54As, it makes sense to add it for the GDR.

 

What other Warsaw Pact countries?  The only Warsaw Pact countries in WT, are the USSR and barely East Germany. The difference is irrelevant, because we have almost no Warsaw Pact countries.

 

East Germany has no tanks, so I don't see how it has "enough" tanks. Makes no sense.

 

M48A2GA2 is a West German modification. West Germany ≠ East Germany. West German does not mean East German.

 

History makes it obvious that East Germany was East German. West Germany was West German. Just because a tank came from West Germany, does not make it East German. There was no "one" Nazi Germany anymore, because the Third Reich was defeated in WWII. The lands of the Third Reich, were divided into many different countries, which are not Germany.

 

 

 

So you do not want NATO vs. Warsaw Pact? I for one, am not in favor of playing a historically inaccurate fantasy game. So far, all I see is NATO vs. NATO in tier 5 and tier 6 which is silly and does not make any sense.

 

What homebuilt East German vehicles? East Germany is not the same as West Germany. They are two separate countries with different cultures and ideologies and people.

 

That is funny, we are talking about post-WWII vehicles, and you bring up captured tanks from the WWII era, which are completely and utterly irrelevant to this conversation. Maybe I should bring up the Roman Empire, or the Spartans - just as irrelevant. 

East Germany is not lacking vehicles, it does not exist in game (only MiG 15bis is East Germany)

T-54A polish or not it is not a german design or modification made by the germans. Still a copy paste, nothing special compared to the other T-54As used by the warsaw pact members.

Germany does not need east germany vehicles as it won't bring anything special to the game. Look already how many people complain with the french jumbo. There would be no separation of West and East because Germany is Germany in WT, and in real life it's the same.

 

Why it matters now? Gaijin already said that the matchmaking is for balance. You have ww2 Japan and the Allies vs Germany. And as why Germany is not teaming up with UK or USA is because Gaijin decision, they were at some point but decided to stop.

 

This is a game, not a simulator nor realistic in any way.

Then don't play the game because if the matchmakimg teams are what annoys you then you should look at everything a second time. We already have post war vs ww2, prototypes as regular, production as event or premium. "Balanced" stats, ilogical decisions and no common sense.

 

We are talking about post ww2 vehicles and I bring ww2 vehicles because it's the same thing. The Allies were fighting together against the Axis so it makes sense to do the same for the lower tiers. They were in an alliance and used each others equipment so why only East Germany is special to receive their stuff?

 

It won't help in any way if you have East Germany and the Soviet Union in the same team, it would create the opposite effect. East Germany had less tanks. If URSS really has a problem against NATO than add those to URSS to help their lineup.

If East Germany was so different from cultural and idological point of view why they united in the first place and remained in NATO? East Germany was just a puppet of the soviet union which ceased to exist becoming part of West Germany. If there is a lack of East Germany's vehicles because we have only 1 then remove it to not represent it in the game.  

I would prefer to have a historical and realistic game before going into the "Random Battles" matchmaking.

[Borotovas 4,500]

1 hour ago, Nell_Lucifer said:

East Germany is not lacking vehicles, it does not exist in game (only MiG 15bis is East Germany)

T-54A polish or not it is not a german design or modification made by the germans. Still a copy paste, nothing special compared to the other T-54As used by the warsaw pact members.

Germany does not need east germany vehicles as it won't bring anything special to the game. Look already how many people complain with the french jumbo. There would be no separation of West and East because Germany is Germany in WT, and in real life it's the same.

 

Why it matters now? Gaijin already said that the matchmaking is for balance. You have ww2 Japan and the Allies vs Germany. And as why Germany is not teaming up with UK or USA is because Gaijin decision, they were at some point but decided to stop.

 

This is a game, not a simulator nor realistic in any way.

Then don't play the game because if the matchmakimg teams are what annoys you then you should look at everything a second time. We already have post war vs ww2, prototypes as regular, production as event or premium. "Balanced" stats, ilogical decisions and no common sense.

 

We are talking about post ww2 vehicles and I bring ww2 vehicles because it's the same thing. The Allies were fighting together against the Axis so it makes sense to do the same for the lower tiers. They were in an alliance and used each others equipment so why only East Germany is special to receive their stuff?

 

It won't help in any way if you have East Germany and the Soviet Union in the same team, it would create the opposite effect. East Germany had less tanks. If URSS really has a problem against NATO than add those to URSS to help their lineup.

If East Germany was so different from cultural and idological point of view why they united in the first place and remained in NATO? East Germany was just a puppet of the soviet union which ceased to exist becoming part of West Germany. If there is a lack of East Germany's vehicles because we have only 1 then remove it to not represent it in the game.  

I would prefer to have a historical and realistic game before going into the "Random Battles" matchmaking.

 

That is not true. There are East German boats, and also an East German helicopter. So, there are multiple GDR vehicles.

 

Poland is not a country in WT.

 

There are flags for both East and West Germany. And Germany was two different countries, and effectively still is. Both countries "reunited" for symbolic reasons, but many people were very opposed to the "reunification" of Germany. You can see here, that even in now there are: cultural, demographical, ideological, and other differences between the two. 

Spoiler

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/10/03/germany-reunified-26-years-ago-but-some-divisions-are-still-strong/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f5cdcb691e6a

 

 

East Germany never "united" with West Germany. East Germany stopped existed, and the NVA was disbanded. The government of the GDR was all fired or let go. Every military commander and soldier in the NVA was eventually fired and let go after the reunification. In reality, West Germany occupied East Germany. The GDR stopped existing, and West Germany just took "West" out of its name but remained exactly the same with more territory. It cost West Germany billions of euros to try to get East Germany up to West German standards, and as you can see by the maps, there are still major differences between the two.

 

If there are GDR tanks, then those tanks would be on the USSR team, and there would be more realistic battles that simulate NATO vs. Warsaw Pact.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Borotovas

[Daniel_the_Tank 89]

I disagree with the part that would put a german adapted tank on the russian's tree. That just doesn't make any sense. As there are already a t34, KV2 and KV-1b albeit premiums. 

 

I disagree with one of your previous ones saying that it would be unfair, essentially, that one nation could get another nation's tanks. If you look at all the tech trees then they all share vehicles. So, why can't a russian tank, especially a cold war tank, be in the german tech tree as lets say a premium vehicle? As most of the cross overs are, No 6 for Japan, M47 for german, the KV2 (also a russian tank) for the german, not sure on this one but the T54E for the usa, et cetera. I think all cross overs are premium except the german m48. 

 

Why wouldn't a german adapted t-whatever be used in the german tree? Because .... it probably never happened or it would most likely be a t80 or t64b as those were most likely in the arsenal upon GDR dismantling. 

 

Worst case, it will be denied but if it was historically used to train and rotated throughout units then the Germans should have access to the tank. Which is one reason why the german line should be better than others, it has access to the different countries trees that had military units there, especially the cold war tanks. 

[kamikazi21358 998]

4 hours ago, Elgreggo said:

Why wouldn't a german adapted t-whatever be used in the german tree? Because .... it probably never happened or it would most likely be a t80 or t64b as those were most likely in the arsenal upon GDR dismantling. 

I don’t think they used T-80s, and the T-64 was never used by any other non-Soviet country during the Cold War, with the exception I believe of a single elite division using a few T-64s (pretty sure not the T-64B obr. 1984 though).  Aka, potential T-64 East German premium, with this division’s markings?

 

 

 

To give my short answer from the other East German threads: we already have a visual difference between different nations’ tanks on the stat card: West German vehicles already have the West German flag, while East German ones have the East German flag.

Option 1 could be simply have this stat apply to the matchmaker as well.  In RB and SB, East and West cannot be in the same lineup, and the East side always fights on the Soviet side.

Option 2 could be have a separate tab unlockable like helicopters, but for East German vehicles.

 

As for Arcade, I don’t think anybody cares if they’re mixed, jt’s arcade.

 

I don’t play German high tier, but my personal motivation for East Germany is, as a Russian tank player, I believe they would help the que times of high tier SB.

Or even in RB, it would be nice to drive alongside East German counterparts, if E and W are successfully separated, I see no real reason why not.

Edited January 3, 2019 by kamikazi21358

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

1 hour ago, kamikazi21358 said:

I don’t think they used T-80s, and the T-64 was never used by any other non-Soviet country during the Cold War, with the exception I believe of a single elite division using a few T-64s (pretty sure not the T-64B obr. 1984 though).  Aka, potential T-64 East German premium, with this division’s markings?

 

 

 

To give my short answer from the other East German threads: we already have a visual difference between different nations’ tanks on the stat card: West German vehicles already have the West German flag, while East German ones have the East German flag.

Option 1 could be simply have this stat apply to the matchmaker as well.  In RB and SB, East and West cannot be in the same lineup, and the East side always fights on the Soviet side.

Option 2 could be have a separate tab unlockable like helicopters, but for East German vehicles.

 

As for Arcade, I don’t think anybody cares if they’re mixed, jt’s arcade.

 

I don’t play German high tier, but my personal motivation for East Germany is, as a Russian tank player, I believe they would help the que times of high tier SB.

Or even in RB, it would be nice to drive alongside East German counterparts, if E and W are successfully separated, I see no real reason why not.

To my knowledge east-Germany did not use any T-64s in any shape, way or form, the only MBTs used by the NVA were different versions of the T-54, T-55 and T-72.

For the rest, I agree, especially your proposed first option could be a win win Situation (since it also reflects how I think about how more NVA vehicles could be implemented). East-German vehicles would be implemented into the German tech-tree, like any other vehicle, but the match-maker for RB and SB treats them like Russian vehicles and they cannot be used with west-German tanks, while people who want to play east and west, can still do so in AB and CB.

[Borotovas 4,500]

 

17 hours ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

To my knowledge east-Germany did not use any T-64s in any shape, way or form

 

Here is an East German T-64. lol

 

http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Coun/Germany/D_NW/D_See_Panser_Munster_9-1.htm

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

Just now, Borotovas said:

 

 

Here is an East German T-64. lol

 

http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Coun/Germany/D_NW/D_See_Panser_Munster_9-1.htm

 

That's a T-54AMZ, an east-German modification of the T-54A.

 

[TaiwanSuperior 26]

All I'm gonna add is this: kinda odd Germany is locked into playing against the most relevant Nato allies, yet gets no East German tanks.

[Borotovas 4,500]

1 hour ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

That's a T-54AMZ, an east-German modification of the T-54A.

 

 

I never noticed that the GDR modified some of the vehicles. It may be a good reason for adding several more GDR vehicles.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

1 hour ago, Borotovas said:

 

I never noticed that the GDR modified some of the vehicles. It may be a good reason for adding several more GDR vehicles.

Yeah, though not many tanks got an exclusively east-German upgrade. The T-54 is one of the few, since east-Germany did not have the financial aid required to order the newer T-55s, so they opted for upgrading the older T-54s and T-54As. (there were three different modernisations: T54Z, T-54AZ and T-54AMZ)

In the T-54AMZs case it is basically a T-54A with night-sight capability, aswell as an infra-red targeting sight, added external fuel-tanks, radioactive dust protection, added external storage-compartments, new tracks and since the modernisation was carried out later down the road, the NVA now had access to the 100mm sub-caliber ammo, so the T-54AMZ was now also equipped with APFSDS shells.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[Aerobane 4,140]

I should have just ground out the German tree alone. That way I get the best of the German, American, AND now Russian trees with 1/3 the grind.

 

Hey lets just add the AMX 40 and STB 1 while we are at it. Remove all the other nations and have American Germany vs German Germany vs Soviet Germany for top tiers. Germany thunder. Leopard 1 isn't good enough, they need the T54 AND the leopard, easily two of the best 7.7s ingame. Germany thunder.

 

Oh well, it seems the die is cast anyway. Go ahead lol I'm clearly in the minority on this one.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

11 minutes ago, Aerobane said:

I should have just ground out the German tree alone. That way I get the best of the German, American, AND now Russian trees with 1/3 the grind.

 

Hey lets just add the AMX 40 and STB 1 while we are at it. Remove all the other nations and have American Germany vs German Germany vs Soviet Germany for top tiers. Germany thunder. Leopard 1 isn't good enough, they need the T54 AND the leopard, easily two of the best 7.7s ingame. Germany thunder.

 

Oh well, it seems the die is cast anyway. Go ahead lol I'm clearly in the minority on this one.

To be honest (and I don't want to be rude), I never really understood this mindset, why is it bad, that a country gets war-machines it historically used? East-Germany purchased and used these tanks, they are a part of German history as a whole, just like west-German M47s or Leopard 1s. East-Germany was (just like the Third Reich) still Germany.