Alvis Ltd - Stormer Air Defence.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

Hello, I would like to suggest a new Self-Propelled Anti Aircraft vehicle for the British ground forces tree. This particular system is armed not only with a gun but also with surface-to-air missiles such as those already seen on the 2S6 "Tunguska" of the Soviet tree in-game. This system is therefore rather unique among the the other suggestions that have been made or might be made for a British SAM-armed SPAA and this is also apparent in the amount of information available for this vehicle.

 

STORMER AIR DEFENCE.

 

 

Alvis Ltd (creator of this system) described the "Stormer Air Defence" as "A Forward Firing Battle Group Air Defence System". It was designed to provide Commanders with a highly mobile, versatile air defence system and was capable of acquiring targets at ranges up to 11 kilometers away - targets such as fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters. The Stormer Air Defence was provided with both a rapid-fire gun and foward-firing missile system. The base vehicle of this system was the Alvis "Stormer" light armoured vehicle and retains its great mobility - being able to reach speeds of up to 80kph on roads. The main components of this system included a 25mm or 30mm Gatling gun, a twin missile launcher, RADAR, infrared/laser sighting systems and a computerized fire-control-system; I will go into detail on these components below.

 

A close-up of the Stormer Air Defence's turret clearly displaying the gun, missile launcher and RADAR system:

Spoiler

 

The Gun.

 

The armoured turret of the Stormer Air Defence could accommodate either a 25mm GAU-12/U Gatling gun or a 30mm GAU-13/A Gatling gun. Both guns could achieve +65° in elevation and were stabilised. The 30mm gun had a rate-of-fire of 2400 rounds-per-minute while the 25mm gun had a variable rate-of-fire of 400, 1000 or 2200 rounds-per-minute. The 25mm gun also had a higher velocity than the 30mm at 1097 meters-per-second over 1036 meters-per-second. Both guns had 500 rounds available but the 25mm was limited to 250 rounds ready 250 rounds stowed.

 

The Stormer Air Defence example in these photos features the 25mm Gatling gun with five barrels (rather than the 30mm which had four):

Spoiler

 

The Missile Launcher.

 

Mounted above the gun was a twin missile launcher featuring the General Dynamics "Stinger" system. These two Stinger missiles could engage targets out to 6 kilometers and as well as the two missiles in the launcher - 6 others were stowed away.

 

RADAR system.

 

The RADAR system used was the ESD (Electronique Serge Dassault) RA-20-S search and target designation RADAR. It had an operational envelope of 11 kilometers in range, 360° in azimuth and 45° in elevation. This system provided a simultaneous search and tracking function for the fire-control system.

 

The ESD RADAR system mounted the left of the missile launcher and behind the GPMG:

Spoiler

 

Sighting and Fire-Control Systems.

 

The sighting system used was the US Optical/FLIR sight AN-VSG02 with a GVS-5 laser at 10 points-per-second for ranging. This sighting system was linked to a 2nd order digital fire-control system which controlled turret slewing and gun-laying. The system could also pass a designated target to sister vehicles by means of a modem.

 

Full specifications

 

General:

Weight (Laden): 11,793 kilograms or 11.793 metric tonnes.

Length: 5300mm

Height: 3988mm

Width: 2364mm

Number of crew: 3.

Range (Road): 644 kilometers.

Maximum speed (Road): 80 Kilometers-per-hour.

 

Weaponry:

Main gun: 30mm GAU-13/A or 25mm GAU-12/U.

 

30mm GAU-13/A specifications:

Number of barrels: Four.

Rate of Fire: 2400 rounds-per-minute.

Muzzle Velocity: 1097 meters-per-second.

Number of rounds: 500.

Ammunition: GAU-8/A ammunition or Oerlikon 30mm ammunition.

 

25mm GAU-12/U specifications:

Number of barrels: Five.

Rate of Fire: 400, 1000 or 2200 rounds-per-minute.

Muzzle Velocity: 1097 meters-per-second.

Number of rounds: 500 total (250 rounds ready, 250 rounds stowed).

 

According to a page from booklet that I will list below, the GAU-12/U could use M-791 APDS and M-792 HEI-T:

Spoiler

 

What is important to note is that these particular munitions are already present in the game for the M3 Bradley

 

Missile system: General Dynamics Stinger.

Range: 6 kilometers. Up to 4 kilometers kill.

Number of rounds: 8 total (2 ready, 6 stowed).

 

Secondary weapon: 7.62mm GPMG.

 

Fire-Control System:

 

RADAR System: ESD RA-20-S track-while-scan.

Computer: 2nd order digital.

Gun Control: Electromechanical, stabilised azimuth auto-lay

Sighting: US Optical/FLIR sight AN-VSG-2

Ranging: GVS-5 laser at 10 points-per-second.

 

Why I would like to see this vehicle in War Thunder.

Now that Rank VI and SAMs have come to the game, a few options are now available for the next British SPAA. However, unlike the options that might exist for other nations, these British options only carry SAMs and no main gun for close-range engagements and personal defence. This vehicle could provide parity with other nations to the British tech tree on a good counter to both planes and helicopters at long and close-range - on a platform both smaller in profile and much more mobile than the likes of the Chieftain Marksman and even the Falcon. I believe that the 25mm-armed version of the vehicle would be best for the game as not only do all the images I have found depict that version, the 25mm's variable RoF would help the player conserve the limited ammunition. As features such as computerized Fire-Control Systems are not quite fully modeled yet, those parts can be ignored. If this vehicle makes it into the game at some point it should however have the ability to detect and track targets with RADAR as vehicles such as the Marksman or 2S6 already do.

 

Sources:

ALVIS LIMITED. STORMER AIR DEFENCE. A Forward Firing Battle Group Air Defence System. Sales leaflet:

Spoiler

Front cover:

 

Page 1:

 

Page 2:

 

Page 3:

 

Source for the first photo in this suggestion: https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/british-army-medium-weight-capability/the-eighties/. The image can be found listed under "Stormer 1" in a row of tabs in the "Eighties CVR(T) Developments" section.

 

Source for the ammunition available for the 25mm GAU-12/U is "GEMAG-25. a light weight air defense gun system. AIRCRAFT EQUIPMENT DIVISION. GENERAL ELECTRIC":

Spoiler

 

Here is another picture of the Stormer Air Defence:

Spoiler

 

This was taken from "TANKS ILLUSTRATED No 22. SCORPION. THE CVR(T) RANGE. SIMON DUNSTAN. Arms & Armour Press Ltd, 1986. ISBN 0-85368-747-1" Image number 82.

 

Front Cover:

Spoiler

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Time4Tea

[blaZzinG_FurY@psn 298]

Open for discussion. But I'd be nice if you could be more specific as to why this would be a good addition to the game as well as include the armor values if available.

[duckmartin 1,889]

+1 this would be a great spaa plus we could have some sort of upgrade system so stock you would get the 25mm GAU-12 and the stinger's but as a tier 4 upgrade you would get the 30mm GUA-13.

[Monarch_C 187]

+1 YES! Britain needs a good SPAA on top tier

[TerikG2014 1,389]

All for this one!

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

1 hour ago, *blaZzinG_FurY said:

Open for discussion. But I'd be nice if you could be more specific as to why this would be a good addition to the game as well as include the armor values if available.

Thank you .

 

I've updated the post with a clearer section about why I'd like to see this vehicle in-game. Unfortunately armour values for this specific vehicle were not included in the sales leaflet. However, it is based on the Stormer vehicle and likely retains the same armour values (Aluminium with protection from 14.5mm AP to the front IIRC - much like the Striker ATGM carrier in-game). I will look around for some more information on that.

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

Another (clearer) picture of the Stormer Air Defence:

Spoiler

 

*Edit* Also added possible ammunition details for the 25mm GAU-12/U.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Time4Tea

[TheFuzzieOne 3,355]

16 hours ago, duckmartin said:

+1 this would be a great spaa plus we could have some sort of upgrade system so stock you would get the 25mm GAU-12 and the stinger's but as a tier 4 upgrade you would get the 30mm GUA-13.

 

Do we even have any photo evidence that it ever mounted the 30mm? It sounds more like it was just an option.

[Milocat 4,848]

+1, this would be a great rotary cannon SPAA, and the missiles are a nice bonus.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Milocat

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

14 minutes ago, TheFuzzieOne said:

 

Do we even have any photo evidence that it ever mounted the 30mm? It sounds more like it was just an option.

No photo, it was indeed just an option. As were Javelin or Blowpipe AA missiles if the customer required.

[scavenjer 1,892]

Small, nimble and high firepower, yes please.

[ScottishFalcon 77]

the stormer hvm i put up most likely contains the same armour values but yeah this would be a good one aswell

 

[Leo_is_best 1]

On ‎25‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 22:25, Time4Tea said:

A Stinger missiles could engage targets out to 6 kilometers and as well as the two missiles in the launcher - 6 others were stowed away.

 

 

Bloody hell, YES PLEASE. we could do with Stingers in game 

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Given a choice between this and the HVM i'd put my vote in for this. Simply because it's more comparable to what we have in game.

[TheFuzzieOne 3,355]

1 hour ago, TerikG2014 said:

Given a choice between this and the HVM i'd put my vote in for this. Simply because it's more comparable to what we have in game.

 

It's give and take. HVM has better missiles, but this has the added utility of a high rate cannon as well.

[ScottishFalcon 77]

i mean they both use the same body personally i dont see why both cant come to the game i prefer the hvm in my opinion simply becuase of the speed of the missiles and the range they have

[Battered_Walrus 995]

far more interesting than the alternatives

[Mr_Pokemon26295 358]

+1 This would be a great alternative to the Stormer HVM,(Also since Sidam 25 mistral is coming with mistrals it might be more welcome too).

Edited July 1, 2020 by Mr_Pokemon26295

[xHDx 467]

+1

 

I don't see why not. It has quite a unique combination of two weapons which you don't see often. More variety should always be welcomed  .

[Deathbringer007 118]

I'll take it

[eleks12 1,079]

+1

[TheFuzzieOne 3,355]

I'd say sure, so long as its equipped with the gun we KNOW it was fitted with. "Offered with" isnt' justification to fit a gun it never mounted.

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

Personally I'd love to see both the 25mm GAU-12 and 30mm GAU-13 versions in game, would give us Brits something to cheer about.

[Mr_Pokemon26295 358]

I gotta admit with the current mess the stormer hvm is i want this much much more now but stormer hvm may be fixed in the new update well hopefully

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Pokemon26295 said:

I gotta admit with the current mess the stormer hvm is i want this much much more now but stormer hvm may be fixed in the new update well hopefully

They have yet to give the Challenger Mk. 3 its historical L26A1 round or remove the fictional L23 from the Chieftain and Challengers, so it is doubtful they'll ever fix the Stormer HVM.