Jagdtiger (P) - Tiger 105 Replacement

[kamikazi21358 998]

Jagdtiger (P)

 

 

 

Sd.Kfz 186, Panzerjäger Tiger Ausf. B “Jagdtiger” [Hunting Tiger], Porsche suspension

 

 

 

 

 

Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf. B Tiger II (H) mit 10.5cm KwK L/68 replacement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Summary

 

There are only two confirmed Jagdtiger variants that existed, the standard Jagdtiger in game, with the standard Henschel 9 wheel overlapping roadwheels.  However, approximately the first 11 Jagdtigers made had a different suspension type, the 8 wheeled Porsche designed Tiger suspension.  These were replaced by the Henschel suspension in production after proving troublesome, thus out of the 70-80 or so Jagdtigers produced, the first 11 only had this suspension.

The proposition is with the now removed Tiger II mit 10.5cm, my proposition includes a 2^nd Jagdtiger for early Rank V Germany, with a new suspension type, for a secondary Jagdtiger as a backup, and a secondary tank to give players a new suspension for a longstanding in-game tank.  I personally believe this vehicle is also the perfect replacement for the finally removed Tiger II 10.5cm paper tank, as it is of a similar strength with the same chassis as it’s base.

 

 

As well, the Jagdtiger (P) is very marginally lighter than the Jagdtiger (H)

 

 

As well, some Jagdtigers mounted a AA LMG, which could be added to the Jagdtiger (P) for variety.

 

 

 

Jagdtiger Suspension change

 

 

 

Jagdtiger in War Thunder (Henschel type)

 

 

 

 

Model Jagdtiger (H)

 

 

 

 

Model Jagdtiger (Porsche suspension)

 

 

 

 

As you can see, this shows the suspension differences.

 

 

Jagdtiger (P) [Bovington Tank Museum]

 

 

 

 

(blueprint, credit: onemax9000)

 

 

 

 

Other visual changes

 

 

 

The Jagdtiger in game does not feature the Zimmerit paste anti-magnetic mine deterrent.  Zimmerit past was used in this time frame, however, after fears that it may or may not be flammable, as caution it was removed from tanks being built.  Meaning the Jagdtiger in game is a more later-model Jagdtiger made, because of this.  However, since the Jagdtiger (P) is the early versions in 1944, this would have had the Zimmerit paste on it, a defense against magnetic mines.  This adds, currently, almost nothing to the game, however, “it is visually awesome,” you could say; it would be like the difference between the Tiger H1 and Tiger E, when it comes to visuals, as the H1 does not feature the paste, and the E does, in War Thunder.

 

Zimmerit Paste on Tiger II (H)

 

Zimmerit Paste as you saw earlier, is not present on the Jagdtiger in game.

 

With:

 

 

 

 

Statistics of the Jagdtiger (Porsche)

 

 

 

Combat Weight: 69,990kg, or approximately 70 metric tonnes.

 

 

Total length: 10.65m

Hull length: 7.79m

Height: 2.92m

Width (with track guards): 3.59m

 

 

Ground clearance: .56m

 

 

Crew: 6

Radio: FuG 5

 

 

 

 

Maximum speed (road): 35-42km/h

Off road speed: 14-30km/h

 

 

Engine: Maybach HL 230 P30

Power: 700 HP at 3000 rpm

 

 

Gearbox: Maybach OG 40 12 16 B:

Gears: 8 forward, 4 reverse

 

 

Power to Weight Ratio: 10.01 HP/t

 

 

Ground pressure: 1.02 kg/cm^2

 

 

Breaks: mechanical, disc.

 

 

Fuel capacity: 865 L Gasoline

Range: 120-170km

 

 

Trench crossing: 3m

 

 

Maximum fording depth: 1.63m

 

 

Vertical obstacles: .85m

 

 

Maximum grade: 30 degrees

 

 

 

 

Main Armament: 12.8cm PaK 44 L/55 cannon

Ammunition carried: 40

Elevation: -8 to +15 degrees

Side traverse: -10 to +10 degrees

Sight: WZF2/7

 

[NOTE: the WZF2/7 is different front the Jaagdtiger’s WZF2/1 in game.  However, no information on the magnification being different has been found yet.]

 

 

Secondary Armament: Maschinengewehr 1934 MG.34 machine gun, x2

Ammunition carried: 1,500 rounds

LMG location 1: ball mount, hull (bow MG)

LMG location 2: pedestal mount on the engine compartment

 

 

 

 

Picture of a LMG on a Jagdtiger, AA mounted on the engine compartment:

 

 

This particular picture is of an MG.42 machine gun, which was also mounted on some.  A possible scenario could be mounting a MG.34 machine gun on the Jagdtiger (P) as suggested, and mounting a MG.42 on the Jagdtiger (H) which was also used.  However, adding the MG.42 to the Jagdtiger (H) is not the main subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Armour and Porsche suspension, like above, from wardrawings

 

 

Porsche suspension being the major change of this vehicle, from the Jagdtiger (P)

 

 

 

 

 

Sources:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdtiger

 

 

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/1-Germany/04-Panzerjaegers/Jagdtiger/Data/Jagdtiger(P).htm

 

 

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=255

 

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/articles/tech/zimmerit-in-german-use/

 

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/tank-museum-capturing-jagdtiger.html

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by kamikazi21358
Forgot to add an “other” option on the 2nd poll question. Edit 2: added a note regarding the WZF2/7 sight. Edit 3: added blueprint (credit: onemax9000)

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

At this point any replacement for the Tiger II 10,5cm that is German and considered as heavy is absolutely needed. +1 for this unique looking Jagdtiger!

[IAMTRIGGERED 1,087]

Maybe I am not reading this correctly, but how would this tank differ (apart from the weight savings and potential FLAMG) from the one we have in-game? Does the different transmission have direct impact on gameplay?

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

I have one question about the gun-sight. We know the Jagdtiger (H) has the WFZ 2/1, which has 10x magnification. Now here you listed the gun-sight of the Jagdtiger (P) as WZF 2/7. Is this gun-sight different in magnification? The model and pictures of the Jagdtiger (P) also do not seem to have the gun-sight on the left side of the frontal roof, like the Jagdtiger (H) has it.

 

Do you have any info on that?

[kamikazi21358 998]

33 minutes ago, IAMTRIGGERED said:

Maybe I am not reading this correctly, but how would this tank differ (apart from the weight savings and potential FLAMG) from the one we have in-game? Does the different transmission have direct impact on gameplay?

The difference would not be very much at all, there would be differences but not enough to effect gameplay as a whole and and not really effect BR.

 

1.  The suspension change is the main aspect of this,

it feature a new suspension system that is not on any other Tiger II.  Since from my understanding, the (H) suspension was the replacement because the (P) had some problems and wasn’t as good.  To switch to another tank, another tank with 2 different suspension systems would be the Sherman series, with the VVSS and HVSS — if we had both in game (I am unsure if we have VVSS), the HVSS would be slightly better on firing on the move than the VVSS since it is better, so it is possible that the (P) would have just slightly worse ‘on the move’ shock absorption or something, because of it’s 8 wheels per side instead of 9 and such.

But chances are the differences would be borderline minimal, it is 95% visual change.

 

2.  Weight reduction, which could be either minor, or actually a significant improvement.  This tank is about 70 tonnes rounded, meanwhile the Jagdtiger (H) should be 71-72t to the sources I read and such.

However, unless they fix it (if it is wrong), it’ll be even a greater change — the current Jagdtiger isn’t listed as 71 tonnes, it is almost 5 tonnes heavier at over 75 tonnes.  So because of this, the Jagdtiger (P) would be just under 6 tonnes lighter than the (H), which should be enough to actually notice a change in mobility — it is a lighter Jagdtiger variant, yet with the same armour and armament.

 

3.  AA machine gun, both of the Jagdtiger can mount AA machine guns, so my proposition is it can mount a MG.34 on it’s rear mount unlike the (H) in game.  And if it is added to the (H), as I proposed, the (H) could get the MG.42, as both were mounted (as for example, the source I gave said MG.34, the picture I showed is an MG.42), so if even mounted to both, there would be a very minor, but still a difference there.

 

4.  The best replacement option for the Tiger II (10.5cm) [that I know of], and a good backup tank.

Although this is not a heavy tank, it is a heavy tank destroyer based directly off of the Tiger II.  It would be the same BR as the Tiger II (10.5cm), as the Jagdtiger was often the same BR as it (excluding a couple times it was 7.3, and when the 105 was moved down before the JT), which is more than other replacement suggestions I heard — (which are not bad, but if we wanted a direct replacement that is +/- 0.3 of the original...)

Which not being a heavy tank but rather a tank destroyer I think is more of an advantage than an issue.  Because of this, it will hate the direct advantage of having the SP of a tank destroyer instead of a heavy tank in Realistic Battles, giving a tank similar to the Tiger 105 even less cost to take out.

Which for Arcade, and also Realistic, this ultimately just provides another Jagdtiger you can take out.  As of current, I would hardly call the German lineup suffering at 6.7, considering it has more 6.7 tanks in the game than pretty much almost every nation in the game combined minus America and maybe Britain, but so new players are not missing out, perhaps one or two, or all three, tanks in this range could be added to replace the missing, so new players don’t really have that much of a disadvantage compared to those who got them before the paper purge.  Germany goes back to having 1 non-premium heavy tank without uptiering the Tiger IIP, but instead they get 2 heavy tank destroyers that (are frankly the pinnacle of BR compression, as there are tanks that can face it that cannot even penetrate it frontally after loading APCR), and 12.8cm guns.

 

Which adding it should not cause any problems, the Jagdtiger I believe last time I checked is not a prerequisite for any tank, so it is optional if someone wants to grind 2 Jagdtigers or not.  But it is exactly as given, it is another Jagdtiger, it has very small differences, but these are the point of the differences are probably more of a preference on what you would rather have, these two tanks are just sub variants to each other, kind of like the T-54 obr. 1949 and T-54 obr. 1951, before 1960s ammunition was provided to both, ‘it’s just a slightly different Jagdtiger to boost your lineup.’

 

 

19 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

I have one question about the gun-sight. We know the Jagdtiger (H) has the WFZ 2/1, which has 10x magnification. Now here you listed the gun-sight of the Jagdtiger (P) as WZF 2/7. Is this gun-sight different in magnification? The model and pictures of the Jagdtiger (P) also do not seem to have the gun-sight on the left side of the frontal roof, like the Jagdtiger (H) has it.

 

Do you have any info on that?

I don’t, I didn’t even notice this until you pointed it out tbh.  I’ll see if I can find something on it.

 

Sorry for the lack of information on that part — I usually try to spend days making a suggestion detailed if I can, but I made this one in two hours.  I have suggested multiple times the Jagdtiger (P) to be a possible replacement for the Tiger 105, and now they are finally doing it (and surprisingly without a replacement), I wanted to get this suggestion up to let people know this tank exists.

[eleks12 1,079]

+1

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

4 minutes ago, kamikazi21358 said:

I don’t, I didn’t even notice this until you pointed it out tbh.  I’ll see if I can find something on it.

 

Sorry for the lack of information on that part — I usually try to spend days making a suggestion detailed if I can, but I made this one in two hours.  I have suggested multiple times the Jagdtiger (P) to be a possible replacement for the Tiger 105, and now they are finally doing it (and surprisingly without a replacement), I wanted to get this suggestion up to let people know this tank exists.

Ah okay, no problem. After looking around some forums, people sometimes claim the sight to be the WZF 2/7, sometimes the WFZ 2/1. From the document we have defiinitive prrof that at least the Jagdtiger (H) has the WZF 2/1 so maybe there are more differences between the H and P versions than we thought? I'll have a more in-depth look around aswell and will post any info here, if I stumble across any.

[kamikazi21358 998]

1 minute ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Ah okay, no problem. After looking around some forums, people sometimes claim the sight to be the WZF 2/7, sometimes the WFZ 2/1. From the document we have defiinitive prrof that at least the Jagdtiger (H) has the WZF 2/1 so maybe there are more differences between the H and P versions than we thought? I'll have a more in-depth look around aswell and will post any info here, if I stumble across any.

Did the same thing, and on WT forums,

on this thread, a few comments down, a list of German optics someone said “Jagdtiger — WZF 2/7, 10x”.  Perhaps the source he found had the P’s optics, which if this is the case, if should be 10x too.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

1 minute ago, kamikazi21358 said:

Did the same thing, and on WT forums,

on this thread, a few comments down, a list of German optics someone said “Jagdtiger — WZF 2/7, 10x”.  Perhaps the source he found had the P’s optics, which if this is the case, if should be 10x too.

Maybe both the WZF 2/1 and 2/7 are the same and some website(s) may have misread the name from a document as 2/7 and not 2/1, since a hand written 1 can sometimes be missread as 7? Especially in older documents where hand-written letters can be quite hard to read sometimes.

 

Just speculation, but I think it could be reasonable, since I do not know why Germany would develop a new gun-sight or at least a new variant of one, after producing just around 11 vehicles...

[kamikazi21358 998]

To just add more stuff I am finding —

 

http://forums.jackbootgames.com/index.php?/topic/240-jagdtiger-optics-fur-karl/

 

some other forum, gives pictures of the gunsight up close (like other German tank destroyers, i’ll be on the roof — sorry SB/players who use gunner sight position).  It also said specifically the Jagdtiger used WZF 2/1 and 2/7, so this confirms that the Jagdtiger used 2 different optics.  No magnification data on this sight.

 

 

But after looking around, apart from that WT post, I could not find anything that specifically said “WZF 2/7 10x magnification”.  I found multiple more stating the Jagdtiger (P) used WZF 2/7, but nothing on the magnification.  If I find something on it, i’ll post it here.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

11 minutes ago, kamikazi21358 said:

To just add more stuff I am finding —

 

http://forums.jackbootgames.com/index.php?/topic/240-jagdtiger-optics-fur-karl/

 

some other forum, gives pictures of the gunsight up close (like other German tank destroyers, i’ll be on the roof — sorry SB/players who use gunner sight position).  It also said specifically the Jagdtiger used WZF 2/1 and 2/7, so this confirms that the Jagdtiger used 2 different optics.  No magnification data on this sight.

 

 

But after looking around, apart from that WT post, I could not find anything that specifically said “WZF 2/7 10x magnification”.  I found multiple more stating the Jagdtiger (P) used WZF 2/7, but nothing on the magnification.  If I find something on it, i’ll post it here.

Thank you!

[Milocat 4,848]

+1 to this, Germany could use some more vehicles in the BR 7.0 range to make up for losing the KT 105, Panther II, and Maus.  

 

I'd prefer a Jagdtiger with an 88mm cannon myself but this variant with different suspension would also be a good choice.

[kamikazi21358 998]

1 hour ago, Milocat said:

I'd prefer a Jagdtiger with an 88mm cannon myself but this variant with different suspension would also be a good choice.

If it existed, this might be a cool option, however this presents another issue.

 

Like the Ho-Ri, I don’t think we even know if it existed or not.  Some sources say 8 were completed, some say 4 were made, some say a few were made and participated in combat, and many say none were made.  Simply if they were made, they were made so late War that they probably were destroyed, and most documentation on their actual creating was destroyed, if they were made.

 

This is why I suggested the Jagdtiger (P) instead of the Jagdtiger mit 8.8cm, because I specifically mentioned

On 15/08/2019 at 15:20, kamikazi21358 said:

There are only two confirmed Jagdtiger variants that existed,

I kept to this because the Jagdtiger (P) and Jagdtiger (H) were the only Jagdtigers you can actually confirm exist as far as I know.  I think it is best to avoid the Jagdtiger 8.8cm until maybe a very convincing source that they actually existed is presented or something, if there is and I don’t know about it, I would love to know about it — I mean I actually do want it if it exists, a Jagdtiger with a 8.8cm being in game I personally think would be pretty fun.  (Although if it is like “only 2-4 were made”, perhaps as a premium or something).

[onemax9000 1,242]

+1 maybe before it the Jagdtiger prototype ? (it could be a event or premium)

Spoiler

 

also the blueprint for you to use  

 

too bad the l/66 version wasn't made 

Spoiler

 

[jacejax 167]

39 minutes ago, onemax9000 said:

+1 maybe before it the Jagdtiger prototype ? (it could be a event or premium)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

too bad the l/66 version wasn't made 

But now we can. Ill accept the L66 Jagtiger as a worthy replacement.


How about the  VK 45.02 (P) ?

3 were made by Porche, they are all different, allowing gaijin to choose which is best for the game, spoiler, do you want the turret on the front, the middle, or the back?

[FORMATOSE 901]

On 15/08/2019 at 22:20, kamikazi21358 said:

As well, the Jagdtiger (P) is very marginally lighter than the Jagdtiger (H) 

 

• eight wheel Porsche type suspension : 69,9 tonnes 
• nine-wheel Henschel type suspension : 71,7 tonnes

[kamikazi21358 998]

3 hours ago, onemax9000 said:

+1 maybe before it the Jagdtiger prototype ? (it could be a event or premium)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

also the blueprint for you to use  

 

too bad the l/66 version wasn't made 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thank you, I put this in the post as it’s an excellent example of the suspension difference.

 

But yeah, someone needs to build a time machine and strap on a L/66, ‘so it was built’.

 

2 hours ago, jacejax said:

How about the  VK 45.02 (P) ?

3 were made by Porche, they are all different, allowing gaijin to choose which is best for the game, spoiler, do you want the turret on the front, the middle, or the back?

I didn’t even know the VK 45.02 was even made, I thought it was paper.  This is cool, we might be able to see this then.

 

Although, don’t know how popular this opinion is, but I don’t want to see it in the main tree tbh.  Putting it in the main tree might open pandora’s box to other VKs in the German non-premium tree, which frankly I don’t to join a match and see 1/3rd of the team VK lots’onumbers tbh — probably give me World of Tanks PTSD.

 

Also I think it’s a unique tank, and it is a heavy tank, but one problem of the VK 40.02 (P) is, from my understanding correct me if I am wrong, this should be closer to the Tiger II (P) than the Tiger II 10.5cm, so the Jagdtiger (P) would be a same-BR replacement while the VK would be lower; (and of course the Jagdtiger (P) was more numerous).

 

 

1 hour ago, Auto_tracking said:

 

• eight wheel Porsche type suspension : 69,9 tonnes 
• nine-wheel Henschel type suspension : 71,7 tonnes

Yes, that is why I mentioned it.  It would be marginally lighter with about a little less than 2 tonnes off.

 

Although, I do not know if this is wrong or what, but in War Thunder the Jagdtiger is over 75 tonnes for some reason.  If not changed, this means the Jagdtiger (P) will even have a greater difference.

[Ghostmaxi 872]

12 hours ago, jacejax said:

How about the  VK 45.02 (P) ?

3 were made by Porche, they are all different, allowing gaijin to choose which is best for the game, spoiler, do you want the turret on the front, the middle, or the back?

Ooh turret back would be nice it looks smooth and you can shoot around corners wit angling

[Milocat 4,848]

17 hours ago, kamikazi21358 said:

If it existed, this might be a cool option, however this presents another issue.

 

Like the Ho-Ri, I don’t think we even know if it existed or not.  Some sources say 8 were completed, some say 4 were made, some say a few were made and participated in combat, and many say none were made.  Simply if they were made, they were made so late War that they probably were destroyed, and most documentation on their actual creating was destroyed, if they were made.

 

This is why I suggested the Jagdtiger (P) instead of the Jagdtiger mit 8.8cm, because I specifically mentioned

I kept to this because the Jagdtiger (P) and Jagdtiger (H) were the only Jagdtigers you can actually confirm exist as far as I know.  I think it is best to avoid the Jagdtiger 8.8cm until maybe a very convincing source that they actually existed is presented or something, if there is and I don’t know about it, I would love to know about it — I mean I actually do want it if it exists, a Jagdtiger with a 8.8cm being in game I personally think would be pretty fun.  (Although if it is like “only 2-4 were made”, perhaps as a premium or something).

 

Huh, I had no idea that the existence of this vehicle was in question.  The story I always heard was that due to either the 128mm cannon factory being bombed or simply production of Jagdtiger chassis outpacing that of the cannons a few were armed with surplus long 88s to get them out in the field.

 

(There was also a really good suggestion for it here:)

Spoiler

 

 

14 hours ago, jacejax said:

How about the  VK 45.02 (P) ?

3 were made by Porche, they are all different, allowing gaijin to choose which is best for the game, spoiler, do you want the turret on the front, the middle, or the back?

 

I also had no idea that any VK 45.02 (P) tanks were actually made, I assumed it was a blueprint design.  (I would love to see a source on this, not that I don't believe you, but to read it for myself).  It would be a perfect addition to the game in that case, although I'm not really sure if it would serve as a replacement for the Tiger II 105.  Would it be at all better than the existing King Tigers?

[WulfPack 1,693]

21 minutes ago, Milocat said:

Would it be at all better than the existing King Tigers?

Wouldn't it be worse than the 2P?

[Jarms 1,556]

Personally I’d prefer seeing the Jagdtiger 88 added to the tech tree. While this could be a nice premium vehicle.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Jarms

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

22 hours ago, Jarms said:

Personally I’d prefer seeing the Jagdtiger 88 added to the tech tree. While this could be a nice premium vehicle.

The thing is, we don't actually have proof that the Jagdtiger 88mm actually was built. There are many conflicting sources and as of yet, no one has provided an authentic war-time picture of one. At least with the Jagdtiger (P) we know it existed and was fully built.

[HMSD33Dauntless 1,257]

I can't see this really being any different from the regular Jagdtiger already in-game, but that being said, I like the look of the suspension and it'd still be neat to have so I support. Given that it's turretless and armed with the 128mm I wouldn't necessarily consider it a replacement for the Tiger II 105 but it's a cool variation of the Jagdtiger regardless.

[kamikazi21358 998]

On 17/08/2019 at 13:55, Ghostmaxi said:

Ooh turret back would be nice it looks smooth and you can shoot around corners wit angling

As mentioned, there should be 3 versions, a rear turret, mid turret and frontal turret, right?

 

I bet it’ll change playstyle:

 

> Front turret will be able to fire around corners best, might be best for CQC.

 

> Mid turret will be like a Tiger II (P), probably more mixed in playstyle.

 

> Rear turret might be better at longer ranges, hull down with gun depression probably will result in the gun resting near the hull, which might mean part of the turret (I am assuming 100mm CHA rounded like the II(P)), will be hidden by the stronger hull, making it a smaller target harder to hit.

Alternatively, if not completely hull down, this might reduce the angle of the LFP on such an incline, so I am unsure if that will be a weakspot or not.

 

On 17/08/2019 at 16:38, Milocat said:

 

Huh, I had no idea that the existence of this vehicle was in question.  The story I always heard was that due to either the 128mm cannon factory being bombed or simply production of Jagdtiger chassis outpacing that of the cannons a few were armed with surplus long 88s to get them out in the field.

 

(There was also a really good suggestion for it here:)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Yeah, on this thread it said “4 were mounted”, I seen “8 during the Battle of Berlin”, World of Tanks outright says 20 which frankly I don’t believe, some say “only a couple” because it was more of a field conversion and that is why people don’t know much about it, and many say none were completed, that they were planned but in practice it never came to be.

 

I think until we have a definitive “this tank existed”, I personally would like to see them wait first, even though a Jagdtiger 8.8cm might be fun.

 

8 hours ago, HMSD33Dauntless said:

I can't see this really being any different from the regular Jagdtiger already in-game, but that being said, I like the look of the suspension and it'd still be neat to have so I support. Given that it's turretless and armed with the 128mm I wouldn't necessarily consider it a replacement for the Tiger II 105 but it's a cool variation of the Jagdtiger regardless.

I suggest it because it is the ‘closest thing’ I personally think.

 

When it comes to heavy tanks themselves:

 

> Heavy tank prototypes only extend to lesser strength vehicles.

 

> I thought, one time ever, I saw something about a Tiger II variant, but as far as I know, there really is just two Tiger IIs that existed, the P and H.

 

> No West German heavy tank exists as far as I know.

 

> East Germany does, but they’re only of lesser strengths (IS-2) or higher strengths (later IS tanks).  Maybe the one exception,

 

> I do not know if Germany ever received the IS-2M.  Unless it has HEAT-FS or some trick up it’s sleeve I don’t know about, presuming East Germany even had it, I don’t see the IS-2M being a Tiger II mit 10.5cm competitor and replacement.

 

 

However, the reason my first choice, the first tank to come to mind, the Jagdtiger Porsche suspension:

 

> Still overall the same hull, slightly different suspension but it is still the Tiger II hull.

 

> May lack a turret and doesn’t have the insane fictional better-than-T90-engine with 900 HP, this is minutely lighter than the current Jagdtiger, and it trades 900 Hp for 700 HP and it’s 185mm RHA turret for 250mm RHA superstructure.  As it also trades a turret and a 10.5cm for a superstructure with a 12.8cm.  This analysis is supported by both tanks spending most of their WT careers sharing the same BR.

 

> Although not a “Heavy tank”, the Jagdtiger is a heavy tank destroyer with even better armour than most 6.7 heavy tanks with overall near the same mobility (doesn’t drive like a T28 or T95), a powerful 12.8cm gun, just in return for not having a turret.  It unfortunately won’t be able to do stuff requiring a turret, but overall a Heavy Tank to a Heavy Tank Destroyer is not a super extreme change and the HTD even will benefit from a lower SP cost.

 

> The only major con I personally find, outside of just not being able to CQC like a Tiger 105, is it’ll be in a tank destroyer line and not the heavy tank line, which the vehicle it replaces is in.  But I think that might even be a good thing, because the Jagdtiger (P) doesn’t extend the grind as much then, as the Jagdtigers lead to nothing; otherwise it does replace the other same-BR tank just not the same line and “class”.

 

This is my personal logic for this suggested replacement.

 

 

On 17/08/2019 at 19:01, Jarms said:

Personally I’d prefer seeing the Jagdtiger 88 added to the tech tree. While this could be a nice premium vehicle.

Which also, I personally disagree, if the 8.8cm is even confirmed to exist, I believe the rolls should be reversed.  The Jagdtiger (P) is a confirmed to exist tank, double digits were made, you can find this tank in a museum, this is not a prototype, I think it takes priority for the main tree over a tank we can’t even confirm to exist.