Too many EC missions to choose from?

[Pony51 6,571]

Too many EC missions to choose from?

 

In the last year new maps included Afghanistan, Vietnam, and "Civil War at China" (Latter is Zhengzhou turned 90 degrees)

Maybe I am imaging but it seems to be very diluted now, too many choices and too few players for them.

 

This is what we have:

 

And I think perhaps this would be better (it is not perfect, just better, what it represents)

Japan vs China, USSR, UK, and USA?  any worse torture?

China + USSR vs USA represents Korea and Vietnam

China + USSR vs Japan is the early conflicts before 1943 when USA+UK became the dominating adversary

 

And on other questino: Should maps be locked to certain Eras? 

For example: China + USSR vs Japan is the early conflicts, that would be only EC 1 to EC3

UK, FR vs GR, IT is also EC1 to EC3

USSR vs USA is only EC4 and later.

 

I look at Sweden as a close ally of Finland

 

Just some thoughts, what say?

[Twisted 3,112]

I am having a really rough time trying to get a Chinese game .  . . it should be added into the mix a little more

[przybysz86 10,312]

GE +IT vs UK + US +FR is not fictional.

Only problem is that when it happened Free French were fighting as part of either US or UK but they had their dedicated squadrons.

 

US +UK vs GE is not only 1944+. US was involved in UK much earlier.

 

Matching Sweden would be pain in the butt as they had been neutral. Any set with Sweden would be fictional

 

China is even worse because technically we should get China + RU vs China + US with lineups limitation

 

Same is true for cold war Germany. We should get GE + RU vs GE + US + FR + UK

Also with lineup limitation.

 

And yes. Matchups should be era specific.

 

Maybe matchups in SB should be using fixed plane list like for tanks?

That way when I want to play as say China in cold war game I can either click "join team A" or "join team B" where both have China but different plane sets. Other machines just would be locked.

 

Or we should split China and Germany using same approach as helicopters use?

For example default Germany tree will only have Western jets but after you get at least one of them you can start researching separate Eastern mini-tree that is only rank 5 and 6

Edited November 18, 2019 by przybysz86

[DeltaSBW 311]

I suppose player made EC missions have fixed it's match-up as well. As we can see everyday, 'mixed' player made EC6 missions, it's total chaos.

 

Because of introducing heat seekers and AAMs now more and more EC6 aircrafts have capability of engagement from kilometers away. Problem is, since we got so many nation-shared aircrafts like Sabre(US, Ger, JPN, CHN), MiG(Ger, CHN, USSR), Phantom, F84, and many other stuffs, in mixed or player-customed mission set up we can't identify who is friend and who is bandit.

 

Think about this, 'You're flying Phantom in mixed SB mission, and you just visual MiG on your front. You checked team consist and confirmed Germany and US on your team, USSR, China is opposite side. So you locked up and fired AIM-9, and WOW! That was friendly German MiG-19! so you penaltied SL and MiG-19 pilot just pissed up to you.'

 

Even now this can happens at every single mixed mission, but later more and more nation-shared aircrafts are released, obviously situation is going to hell-like one. This is not whining about *historical issue* but seriously about in game balance and system. Unlike RB or AB, there's no long-range identification method in SB, so mixing nations mission set up issue in SB is most urgent one IMO. 

[nazradu2 3,021]

Team Radio would solve that problem, but will never come. 

[edenstyle 237]

4 hours ago, Pony51 said:

"Civil War at China" (Latter is Zhengzhou turned 90 degrees)

Seriously?! omg that's so weak! 

[przybysz86 10,312]

3 hours ago, nazradu2 said:

Team Radio would solve that problem, but will never come. 

Not making those crap mixed sets would help too

 

Just stop playing them and people will stop making them

[Pony51 6,571]

P86 yes the lineups are not precise but generally accurate.

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

GE +IT vs UK + US +FR is not fictional.

Only problem is that when it happened Free French were fighting as part of either US or UK but they had their dedicated squadrons.

Tru, but they where flying US and UK equipment, not French stuff.  (I know, I know, much of French stuff is US)

On balance, this is a fictional setup.

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

US +UK vs GE is not only 1944+. US was involved in UK much earlier.

Yes, should have said (January 27) 1943 when the US made its first heavy bomber raid.

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

Matching Sweden would be pain in the butt as they had been neutral. Any set with Sweden would be fictional

True, however GJ seems to be adding Finland to that tree, and Sweden was known to help Finland.

Best choice, no?

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

China is even worse because technically we should get China + RU vs China + US with lineups limitation

I said Korea and Vietnam.  Taiwan was always a last page incident news article.

Even at worst I do not think was major, but I want to hear opinions from Asian people who were there.

 

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

Same is true for cold war Germany. We should get GE + RU vs GE + US + FR + UK

Also with lineup limitation.

This I do agree with!  Great suggestion.

 

 

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

And yes. Matchups should be era specific.

 

Maybe matchups in SB should be using fixed plane list like for tanks?

That way when I want to play as say China in cold war game I can either click "join team A" or "join team B" where both have China but different plane sets. Other machines just would be locked.

 

Or we should split China and Germany using same approach as helicopters use?

 

12 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

For example default Germany tree will only have Western jets but after you get at least one of them you can start researching separate Eastern mini-tree that is only rank 5 and 6

 

I was already thinking the post war trees for GE and CH should be split in some way.

Yes.

 

Before we added all these post war units it was easy, but now everything is a Charlie Foxtrot.

 

[przybysz86 10,312]

8 minutes ago, Pony51 said:

I was already thinking the post war trees for GE and CH should be split in some way.

the mechanics is already there.
Remove all east-german planes from GE tree and create new "sub-tree" like helis. Once you unlock your first rank V plane you can start researching it.

You can even set it up as separate country. Problem is with crew skill but then you can have it copied from main tree 1:1 when you buy your first plane.

We are talking couple of bytes here - it can be synced easily. Having it as separate nation opens new options for match-making. Same will work for China, Japan, Italy as they did switch sides or had "2 sides in parallel" at one time in history

Of course for Italy or Japan it's easier to make nation-list to be rank-specific so that EC1-4 they are with axis and 5-6 with NATO

Edited November 18, 2019 by przybysz86

[Pony51 6,571]

2 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

the mechanics is already there.

 

Even then, it is not hard to program in something, however it is arranged.

 

[przybysz86 10,312]

3 minutes ago, Pony51 said:

 

Even then, it is not hard to program in something, however it is arranged.

 

exactly but what I meant that precedence has already been done. We do have tech trees that does not start at rank I and require you to reach certain rank elsewhere to start research.

We do not have to introduce totally new mindset - GJ is already ok with the idea as they introduced it.
 

[Pony51 6,571]

1 minute ago, przybysz86 said:

exactly but what I meant that precedence has already been done. We do have tech trees that does not start at rank I and require you to reach certain rank elsewhere to start research.

We do not have to introduce totally new mindset - GJ is already ok with the idea as they introduced it.

SO its not about the mechanic, its the precedent.

 

All the better.   

[Lt_Sindbad 82]

Is not many ec rooms. I cant grind China as there is no game at all i stuck in ec 1 and 2. I cant progress as i cant join battles. I have limited time to play 

[przybysz86 10,312]

56 minutes ago, Lt_Sindbad said:

Is not many ec rooms. I cant grind China as there is no game at all i stuck in ec 1 and 2. I cant progress as i cant join battles. I have limited time to play 

Hop in here:

create own room and ask people help you get it started. Even if they will exit just after it beings you'll still be able to play and from my experience, people will come once room goes active

[Twisted 3,112]

5 hours ago, przybysz86 said:

Hop in here:

create own room and ask people help you get it started. Even if they will exit just after it beings you'll still be able to play and from my experience, people will come once room goes active

 

Same here stuck in T2 cause no matches 

 

Its usually what I do, sometimes it works . .mostly I make Rus & China vs the world in Krusk .  .its well balanced

 

Mostly feel like a perv trying to hook up in a bar

 

Can't we just add china to a couple of matches rather than just pile on to the already out numbered Japanese

[FouManchou 2,463]

19 hours ago, Pony51 said:

Tru, but they where flying US and UK equipment, not French stuff.  (I know, I know, much of French stuff is US

Too bad the french air tree doesn't have a P63, two F6F's, an Avenger, a vindicator, a pair of Hawks and a helldiver. (Not to mention D520's were actually flown until quite late in the war, and the VB10's are more or less late war tech (even though the first design was 1940), and MB157 has mid-war performance.

On 18/11/2019 at 08:07, nazradu2 said:

Team Radio would solve that problem, but will never come. 

Or ground radar / ground control (+AWACS in Tier 6)

[Pony51 6,571]

I do not have too much trouble getting in EC matches, except for EC5 flying USA.

 

Obviously everyone is flying A2D-1, which is a RP and SL money machine, it is incredible. Any wonder?

[Lt_Sindbad 82]

Try China :P

I have one game today morning EC1! no other ones only ec4 where i didnt grind planes yet.

No Games

[Pony51 6,571]

1 hour ago, Lt_Sindbad said:

Try China :P

I have one game today morning EC1! no other ones only ec4 where i didnt grind planes yet.

No Games

 

What is the population?  I have seen it low recently.

EC is becoming quite empty.  

 

[przybysz86 10,312]

26 minutes ago, Pony51 said:

 

What is the population?  I have seen it low recently.

EC is becoming quite empty.  

 

problem is that China only meets Japan. Both are least populated nations.

 

I think solution can be that if I queue for more than 5 mins and there is no game - I will get game against bots.

From my experience people will join once I get game going. I had problem starting EC1 RU + CN vs UK + FR+ US.

Spent 15mins and nothing. I had to ask friends to just join in, help me start and leave (they didn't have time to play) and guess what - once started game had steady population between 5 to 9 players on each side.

 

and even if I spend whole 3hrs game against bots world won't come to an end.

it can be limited only to situation where there is no other game for my nation or all other games are full. If there is but can't join due to imbalance - tough luck. But at least it will allow games to start for less popular nations

Edited November 19, 2019 by przybysz86

[Pony51 6,571]

12 minutes ago, przybysz86 said:

From my experience people will join once I get game going.

 

Totally agree. 

Yes, a Bot start for lesser popular nations.

Also lets rotate maps

Or offer +50% for some maps

or, or, AND.

 

Really, should have though of other ideas.  EC is becoming a ghost town and some matches are nearly impossible to start (thus Custom EC match popular?*).

 

 

[_Thrash_ 797]

1 hour ago, Pony51 said:

 

What is the population?  I have seen it low recently.

EC is becoming quite empty.  

 

From the last updates, vehicle implementations, bugs and absurd tournament decisions........I think GJN wants us to go.

Well to stay on topic, I always wished that EC was like world campaign :

Choose era (WWI, WWII, Cold War etc.)
Choose front (Eastern, Pacific, Asia etc.)

 

and just join any battle going on in these preferences with historically accurate vehicles....one could only wish, until then USA vs USA in Britain and seems like helicopters vs helicopters in in Boulogne-sur-Mer peace map...-why can't you leave us alooone 

 

Spoiler

 

[bearchills 427]

I have to say, I really couldn't care less about wait times for China. They never should have added that tree in the first place. It's all freaking copy pasta. 

 

However, it is rather irritating that it's always so hard to find a game as Japan. I hardly ever find more than one game to join If I'm lucky. Usually there aren't any games when I look.

Then you try to start one, but nobody stays in the lobby long enough to get it started.

You guys are 100% right about empty games filling up once the game is actually in progress. They really should let less popular nations get a game started even with just bots. Nobody wants to wait in a lobby. I see them jump in and right out of lobbies all the time. If it was a game in progress, those people would be joining. It would populate with players in no time. 

 

And even in the unlikely case that the match doesn't end up getting populated with players..  so what? Who cares? Who is it hurting?

When it is always so hard to find a game with certain nations, where's the harm in letting someone create a game with only bots and getting to fly what they want And make progress. 

 

On 19/11/2019 at 12:32, przybysz86 said:

I think solution can be that if I queue for more than 5 mins and there is no game - I will get game against bots....
...and even if I spend whole 3hrs game against bots world won't come to an end.

Completely agree. I support the idea.

On 19/11/2019 at 12:32, przybysz86 said:

From my experience people will join once I get game going...
..Spent 15mins and nothing. I had to ask friends to just join in, help me start and leave (they didn't have time to play) and guess what - once started game had steady population between 5 to 9 players on each side.

Exactly right

[Twisted 3,112]

On 19/11/2019 at 22:32, przybysz86 said:

 

 

I think solution can be that if I queue for more than 5 mins and there is no game - I will get game against bots.

 

 

I have no problem with this . . .bots are pretty banging, in fact when nobody was playing T-5 . . .it was the bots that kept it going and they are loads of fun, they get after you and won't let go. I actually find the bots to be quite competent and a better fight than a whole lot of players and significantly more entertaining and challenging than the entire community of A2D lemmings. 

It was just some very serious hardcore pros , that felt engaging bots was beneath their dignity, and therefor bots were bad, how they could tell who was a bot  and who a player has always been a mystery to me.

This will most certainly work . .do it . .do it . .do it

[ZdrytchX 1,261]

On 18/11/2019 at 14:50, DeltaSBW said:

I suppose player made EC missions have fixed it's match-up as well. As we can see everyday, 'mixed' player made EC6 missions, it's total chaos.

Generally speaking though, everyone versus US is the most balanced lineup due to the large ratio of zomber pilots on the american side (along with it being the easiest team to populate)

Lately I have around a decent balance of 70% win rate as americans with this lineup as well as a 60% win rate as non-americans.
There is actually a bug you can exploit to further balance the matchup by adding americans to the team A side along with everyone because room select cannot actually place players onto team A when the team exists on both sides. This way, american players who queue using the matchmaker (people actually use this?) have a chance of joining team A. It also provides a pathway for non-US teams to actually have a reasonable win rate for grinding as non-americans ^{(I actually only did this like 3 times in 1.91 tbh because it wasn't exactly fun to be fighting against a non-existant team, as it turns out [operation] missions worked better because they are short bursts of fun and bomber bias isn't as strong if you have at least two players on your team capable of doing ground strikes)} during the stupid horde of americans from hype patches like 1.91's phantom (having US faction players outnumber everyone else at a ratio of 3:1 isn't funny gaijin!)

But yes, it is a mess for identification with beyond-0.9km range roulette launches but honestly I only make one accidentally teamkill every 40 player kills on average which is probably better the average player in a non-mixed match with something like exclusively US vs USSR. Americans in particular are known for accidental teamkills because their AIM-9Es are just so good although from personal experience the main source of teamkills I've seen from other players is the F9F-8 (Why is that thing still at BR 8.3?).

 

12 hours ago, Twisted said:

how they could tell who was a bot  and who a player has always been a mystery to me

It is easy to identify. Try to imagine a mouse aim player with their target cursor permnanetly on the player chasing them, and having their AoA limited to 50% of the stalling AoA. This is why they retain energy so well and turn so slowly at high speeds. One trick is to not turn with them but climb and they'll climb with you and maybe pass in front of your guns if you have enough distance. If you overshoot, just continue going in a spiral ascent, vertical as much as possible once slow and they'll level out and you have the perfect firing window to kill them assuming you didn't spin out at the top of the climb.