Swedish helicopters.

[blockhaj 3,560]

Time to start discussing Swedish helicopters.

 

Historically to date there have only been five armed helicopters in Swedish service. Of these five only one has featured anti tank weaponry. Therefor a potential Swedish helicopter tree will have to be filled with test vehicles. After a bunch of research it seems there are enough unique projects to make a viable helicopter tree. This is my current personal projection of what a Swedish helicopter tree could be. Note that i have a line for counter insurgency aircraft. This is because counter insurgency aircraft plays a similar role to armed helicopters and are too weak to be added to main tech trees.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XrA8vXIcmWzcw3psrv8OEI7-WmJ6d6fLfT-DzNUrmKM/edit?usp=sharing

 

The helicopters in the tree are covered below. Counter insurgency aircraft will be described in the future.

 

Proposed main line helicopters.

HKP 3A  (tier 5)

Spoiler

Helikopter 3A

 

Description

Helikopter 3A was the Swedish designation for the Bell 204B Huey. It entered service in 1962 as a general utility and transport helicopter. It was never armed in Swedish service but the Swedish army planned to arm it from the start and therefore ordered Bell 204’s with the ability to mount ATGM pylons. It was suggested already in 1961 that the HKP 3 could possibly be armed with the RB 52 (SS.11) as the Americans had armed their Hueys with their counterpart the AGM-22.

 

In 1965 a HKP 3A number 03306 was tested with 6x RB 53 Bantam missiles. The Bantam was a box-fired, wire guided ATGM that used an improved warhead of the French SS-10 anti ship missile in combination with a glass fiber body with fold-able fins. It could penetrate 400+ mm of armor according to Bofors. The tests showed good results and it was decided that Sweden should service anti tank helicopters, however to do that a new helicopter and a missile system had to be adopted as no HKP 3's could be spared to become anti tank helicopters. This would with time (a lot of time...) evolve into the HKP 9A.

 

Missiles

The HKP 9A was fitted with 6 Bofors BANTAM RBS 53 launcher boxes on standard NATO pylons.

 

Each box held a Bofors BANTAM missile, in Swedish service known as the Robot 53, or RB 53 for short.

Type: Bofors BANTAM (Bofors anti tank missile) (how creative....)

Function: Generation 1 wire-guided HEAT-missile

Penetration: 350-500 mm

Speed: 85 m/s

Range: 2 km

Note: the range of 2 km might sound short (and it is) but at lower BR's helicopters usually engage tanks at such ranges. Besides, the low velocity wouldn't be suitable at longer ranges due to the long exposure time required at such ranges. Also trasers becomes invisible at longer ranges so the limited range might not be that bad either way.

 

The missile sight of the HKP 3A was unusual. The primary sight was fitted to the chest of the gunner, thus following his movements and always being in line. The sight itself was the same as the standard sight used on the ground version of the BANTAM fire control system. In front of the gunner was the standard BANTAM control panel which was fixed to the helicopter. Interestingly the HKP 3A during this test also had a fixed secondary sight of the model Reflexsikte m/42. These sights were originally fitted to old J22 aircraft.

 

Guns & rockets

Unknown. The hellicopter features a fixed gunsight which indicates that guns or rockets may have been trialed? Guns had been trialed on the HKP 2 previously.

Images

Spoiler

Sources
Arméflygets historia: page 387-399

B-pilen: several numbers 1966-69

Original research

HKP 8 (tier 5)

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Projekt helikopter 8

Basic data

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Loadouts

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Stock

• 4x RB 55A: 430 mm

RB 55B (upgrade)

• 4x RB 55B: 630 mm

TOW 4 (upgrade)

• 8x RB 55A: 430 mm
• 8x RB 55B: 630 mm

FFV UNI-POD 0127 (1978) (upgrade)

• 2x 12,7 mm 0127 Early: 150 rpg
• 1x 12,7 mm 0127 Early: 150 rpg + 4x RB 55A: 430 mm
• 1x 12,7 mm 0127 Early: 150 rpg + 4x RB 55B: 630 mm

Missiles

Spoiler

Robot 55A (RB 55A)

Type: TOW
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided HEAT-missile

Penetration: 430 mm.

 

Robot 55B (RB 55B)

Type: Improved TOW (ITOW)
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided HEAT-missile with ERA-penetrator

Penetration: 630 mm.

 

Note

As the HKP 8 was only tested during the years 1980-1981 there are only 2 missiles available for it, the RB 55A and RB 55B. The RB 55A (TOW) was never acquired by the Swedish army but it did get a designation which indicates that it was tested to a degree, most likely on the HKP 8. The RB 55B (ITOW) was the initial TOW missile the Swedish army bought and these arrived in 1981. Weather it was tested in the HKP 8 or not is unknown at the moment but we migth as well give it the RB 55B as it theoretically was available to it.

 

Guns

Spoiler

12,7 mm FFV UNI-POD 0127 (1978)

Type: .50 caliber gun pod.

Weight: 130 kg (gun = 37 kg)

Ammunition: 150 rounds

Gun model: 12,7 mm FN M3M

Fire rate: 1200 rpm

 

Note

Alternative armament for the HKP 8 was never tested but the Swedish company FFV developed a gun pod for potential use on Sweden's next anti-tank helicopter around 1977.
It was named UNI-POD 0127 and featured a 12,7 mm FN M3M machine gun. It was classed as an autocannon pod (akankapsel) as the Swedish aviation industry follow the Swedish air force nomenclature where cannons start at 12,7 mm. There were two variants of the uni-pod. One from 1977-78 which was made out of aluminum and featured 150 rounds, and one from 1985 which had parts made out of glass fiber and had 200 rounds. As the HKP 8 was only tested from 1980-81 only the 1978 version is viable.

Missile system

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Four US made M65 TOW-system. Each side can carry one or two M65 system which are mounted on top of each other.

 

The M65 TOW-systems are mounted to to helicopter via special mounts constructed by MBB. These are in turn mounted to basic NATO mounts on the helicopter.

Unique mount above. Red highlights shapes and the blue highlights the firing cable.

 

Basic blueprint i made

Missile sight

Spoiler

The HKP 8 was fitted with a Hughes/British Aerospace TOW roof sight, the same as on the British Lynx helicopters in game. This sight was at the time of the HKP 8, only capable of daylight missions. It had no night-vision capability. Hughes/British Aerospace would later in 1988 invent a night-vision variant of the sight but at that time the HKP 8 was no more.

 

 

Description
This helicopter is the prototype for what would become the HKP 9A. It has been given the name Helikopter 8 as that was the the project name which lead to the HKP 9a. Its origin story is currently not known but the earliest picture of it shows it in Swedish colors, taken in 1980 during the HKP 8 trials. The vehicle was trialed in Sweden from 1980 to 1981, with minor trials being performed in Germany during the second half of 1981. After the trials the helicopter became a demonstrator for MBB aimed at selling a TOW armed version of the Bo 105. It was simply called Bo 105 TOW by them. It was displayed at the 1982 Farnborough international air show but it did not attract any buyers. In 1984 it was modified into a Bo 105LS were they removed its pylons and painted it brown. It did however keep its roof sight. However in 1985 it was modified again, this time as a gun pod wielding desert style helicopter. Sadly it lost its unique roof sight by now. It was displayed like this at the "le Bourget Paris air show" in June 1985. After that the helicopter was rented by the Swedish army again, however it was kept unarmed and used a transport helicopter.

The individual was apparently built in 1978 but there is no information on it prior to 1980. It was likely modified into its above state on request from the Swedish army as MBB did not offer the Bo 105 with TOW missiles until 1981, right after the Swedish trials. 

 

It is based on the MBB BO 105 CB, however no source reliably states which CB version it is. The vehicle is equipped with a modified Hughes TOW roof sight. This would be the basis for the HeliTOW sight which was being developed by Saab-Scania Combitech AB at the time. The sight mount is unique in that it is streamlined, which is unique to this helicopter individual. Its armament consists of two american M65 quad TOW-missile launchers, mounted on unique pylons designed by MBB. It also features a white cupola on top of the rotor which was not used on any other common BO 105.

 

It was modified by FC (Försökscentralen) when it arrived in Sweden in 1980 and also painted in Swedish FOA camo. It was trialed against several other helicopter types and came out as the victor. Sweden then decided to order 20 BO 105’s in 1984 which became the HKP 9A.

 

 

Camouflage
During its Swedish testing period it was painted in Swedish FOA splinter camouflage (predecessor to the modern M90 camouflage) and had the Swedish air force roundel on the doors (compared to the HKP 9A which had them on the butt). On the tail it featured MBB’s name of the specimen D-HDMU and FC’s logotype.

 

A fun fact is that the Swedish camouflage and FC’s logotype remained even when the vehicle was used as a demonstrator for MBB.

Pictures

Spoiler

1980-81 (Swedish tests)

 

Tail mark (D-HDMU)

 

 

1982 (Farnborough international 1982)

 

FC’s logotype.

 

1983 (as demonstrator)

 

1984 (as demonstrator)

 

8th of June 1985 as a demonstrator at the le Bourget Paris air show.

 

1985 (Swedish tests)

 

Sources
Arméflygets historia: page 387-399
Magazine Flygvapennytt, nr 4, 1981: page 7-10
https://www.robotmuseum.se/ROBOT/Robothistorik/11_Pansar/ARM_rb_55.htm
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 13, 1985, page 7
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 17, 1985, page 6
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 7, 1977, page 1

http://docplayer.se/108645058-Karl-gustaf-wahlstedt.html
https://forum.soldf.com/topic/3698-sverige-stridshelikopter/page/2/
Arméstaben reserapporter, MBB BO 105

HKP 9A  (tier 6)

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Helikopter 9A

http://hjak.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/hkp9a-20.jpg

Basic data

Spoiler

Loadouts

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Stock

• 4x RB 55C: 900 mm

RB 55D (upgrade)

• 4x RB 55D: 900+ mm

FFV UNI-POD 0127 (1985) (upgrade)

• 2x 12,7 mm 0127 Late: 200 rpg
• 1x 12,7 mm 0127 Late: 200 rpg + 2x RB 55C: 900 mm
• 1x 12,7 mm 0127 Late: 200 rpg + 2x RB 55D: 900+ mm

Missiles

Spoiler

Robot 55C (RB 55C)

Type: TOW 2
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided HEAT-missile with improved engine and guidence

Penetration: 900 mm.

 

Robot 55D (RB 55D)

Type: TOW 2A
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided HEAT-missile with improved engine, guidance and ERA-penetrator

Penetration: 900+ mm.

 

Note

As the HKP 9 went on to serve as an anti-tank helicopter even into the early 2000's, it would acquire more modern missiles throughout its service life. So to make it superior to the previous HKP 8 with twice the amount of missiles i am proposing that the HKP 9A receives the TOW 2 and TOW 2A. In fact it makes sense that the HKP 9A would receive these as the HeliTOW system it uses was designed for the TOW 2.

 

Guns

Spoiler

12,7 mm FFV UNI-POD 0127 (1985)

Type: .50 caliber gun pod.

Weight: 115 kg (gun = 37 kg)

Ammunition: 200 rounds

Gun model: 12,7 mm FN M3M

Fire rate: 1200 rpm

 

Note

Alternative armament for the HKP 9A was never tested but the Swedish company FFV developed a gun pod for potential use on Sweden's next anti-tank helicopter around 1977.
It was named UNI-POD 0127 and featured a 12,7 mm FN M3M machine gun. It was classed as an autocannon pod (akankapsel) as the Swedish aviation industry follow the Swedish air force nomenclature where cannons start at 12,7 mm. There were two variants of the uni-pod. One from 1977-78 which was made out of aluminum and featured 150 rounds, and one from 1985 which had parts made out of glass fiber and had 200 rounds. As the HKP 9A entered service in 1985 it only makes sense it would get the 1985 version.

Missile system

Spoiler

Two Swedish/US made Saab Emerson HeliTOW launchers, one on each side, mounted on NATO pylons. Designated Robotsystem 55H (RBS55H)-in Sweden, these can carry two TOW-2 missiles each.

Missile sight

Spoiler

The HKP 9A was fitted with an advanced stabilized rotating roof sight called HeliTOW. This sight was developed by Saab-Scania Combitech and Emerson defense systems. The sight featured a laser range finder and gyro-stabilizer but lacked a proper night camera. The sights were however designed to be easily upgraded with night vision but sadly the Swedish army never upgraded them.

 

 

 

 

Description
The HKP 9A was the Swedish army version of the BO 105. Its factory name was the BO 105 CBS as it was based on the 105 CB but tailored for the Swedish, therefor the S. It was specifically bought to be an anti-tank helicopter and is historically the only one of its type to see service in the Swedish armed forces.

 

A second version existed and was called the HKP 9B, but it was unarmed and only used for the air force.

 

Sources

Arméflygets historia: page 387-399
https://www.robotmuseum.se/ROBOT/Robothistorik/11_Pansar/ARM_rb_55.htm
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 4, 1983
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 13, 1985, page 7
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 17, 1985, page 6
U-Aktuellt, staff paper for FFV, number 7, 1977, page 1
http://docplayer.se/108645058-Karl-gustaf-wahlstedt.html
Helicopter Gunships: Deadly Combat Weapon Systems: page 143

HKP 9A (FC)  (tier 6)

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Helikopter 9A (Försökscentralen)

Basic data

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Loadouts

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Stock

• 4x RB 55D: 900+ mm

RB 55E (upgrade)

• 4x RB 55E: 250 + 500 mm

FFV UNI-POD 0127 (1985) (upgrade)

• 2x 12,7 mm 0127 Late: 200 rpg
• 1x 12,7 mm 0127 Late: 200 rpg + 2x RB 55D: 900+ mm
• 1x 12,7 mm 0127 Late: 200 rpg + 2x RB 55E: 250 + 500 mm

Missiles

Spoiler

Robot 55D (RB 55D)

Type: TOW 2A
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided HEAT-missile with improved engine, guidance and ERA-penetrator

Penetration: 900+ mm.

 

Robot 55E (RB 55E)

Type: TOW 2B
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided top-attack EFP-missile with dual warhead.

Penetration: ca 250 mm (against era) + ca 500 mm (against roof armor).

 

Note

As mentioned previously the HKP 9 went on to serve as an anti-tank helicopter even into the early 2000's, and would thus acquire more modern missiles. Thus to make the HKP 9A (FC) superior to the previous HKP 9A, which otherwise shares its armament, i am proposing that the HKP 9A (FC) receives the TOW 2B top-attack missile. This missile was apparently acquired for the Swedish anti-tank helicopter regiments by the late 1990's. Since it's top-attack it would separate the HKP 9A (FC) from the HKP 9A by gameplay.

 

Guns

Spoiler

12,7 mm FFV UNI-POD 0127 (1985)

Type: .50 caliber gun pod.

Weight: 115 kg (gun = 37 kg)

Ammunition: 200 rounds

Gun model: 12,7 mm FN M3M

Fire rate: 1200 rpm

Missile system

Spoiler

Two Swedish/US made Saab Emerson HeliTOW launchers, one on each side, mounted on NATO pylons. Designated Robotsystem 55H (RBS55H)-in Sweden, these can carry two TOW-2 missiles each.

Missile sight

Spoiler

The HKP 9A (FC) was fitted with an upgraded variant of the HeliTOW sight featuring a FLIR (Forward-Looking InfraRed)-camera, allowing it to conduct night-missions.

 

 

Description

This is a weird one. The HKP 9A (FC) is a unique HKP 9A individual which was fitted an improved version of the HeliTOW roof sight featuring a FLIR-camera, basically a thermal sight. It was primarily used for testing purposes by the Swedish military trial central FC (Försökscentralen). It was originally only rented from MBB for HeliTOW trials, then numbered 09073 but it was eventually bought by the Swedish army and became the 21st HKP 9A 09221. As it was the only HKP 9A to use a FLIR-sight it received the nickname "bastarden", meaning the "b a s t a r d" in English.

Sources
https://digitaltmuseum.se/021028465952/helikopter among others

AHS S95  (tier 7)

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Attackhelikoptersystem studie 1995 (AH-64A)

Description
Two AH-64A supplied by USAREUR (United States Army Europe) in 1995 for trials in Sweden. The plan was never to specifically buy the AH-64A but the gain experience with attack helicopters so one could be bought after the 2001 defence budget. The two AH-64A’s in Sweden never got a designation as they were never intended to enter service but were piloted and serviced by Swedish crew during the tests. The whole project generally went under the name attackhelikoptersystem (attack helicopter system), abbreviated to AHS, as well as the year the tests were conducted in.

 

During the same period an Mi-28 Havoc was also tested but it retained its Russian desert camouflage and was piloted by a Russian pilot.

 

The AH-64’s were tested with Hellfire missiles and Hydra rockets both on the swedish mainland and archipelago. During tests on the mainland it was discovered that it could not be used as an anti-tank helicopter as tests with the Strv 121 showed that the Strv 121 could spot and knock out the AH-64 Before it could do the same to the Strv 121. But during marine tests in the Archipelago it was seen as a good choice for a coastal defender by the Swedish marine who liked it very much. Since they already serviced the Hellfire missile as an anti-ship missile under the designation RB 17 it would fit very well into the already set up ammunition system.

 

In the end Sweden would not buy attackhelicopters as the 2001 defence budget did not allow it. The Swedish government decided to downgrade the Swedish military to an almost non existent force as the cold war was over.

Camouflage
The AH-64A were painted in Swedish olive drab green and featured the Swedish air force roundel during the trials.

Pictures

Spoiler

AH-64A from source. Unknown if it is photographed in Sweden.

 

Camouflages drawn by me (Blockhaj) a while ago.

Sources
Rotorbladet nr 2 1996
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=38209

 

Proposed premium helicopters.

 

HKP 2 (tier 5)

Spoiler

Helikopter 2

Description
Helikopter 2 is the Swedish designation for the French Alouette II helicopter. It was never armed in Swedish service but an SS.11 armed Alouette was trialed in Sweden in September 1958, two months prior to the Swedish marine ordering the first HKP 2. The tests were seen as successful but no missiles ramps were ordered as Sweden did not plan to use the Alouette as an anti-tank helicopter.

The HKP 2 was partially license built by SAAB with 4 examples built for the Swedish marine.

January 25th 1961 a HKP 2 was trialed with a fixed 6,5 mm ksp m/58 machine gun aimed by the pilot.

 

Armament

Missiles

As mentioned the HKP 2 never bore any weapons in service, only for trials. As for the missile armament, it consists of 4x RB 52’s (AS-11). These uses the same pylons as the other Alouette II’s in game.

Machine guns

In 1961 a HKP 2 was modified with a fixed 6,5 mm ksp m/58. It is currently unknown how the full contraption looked and how much ammo it carried.

 

Pictures

Spoiler

From demonstration in September 1958.

 

From demonstration in September 1958.

 

From test in January 1961.

 

Sources
Arméflygets historia: page 387-399

Svenska dagbladet 21/9 1958: page 3

Svenska dagbladet 21/9 1958: page 11

http://www.fht.nu/fv_bilder_flygbas_flygplan_armen.html

https://www.aef.se/Flygvapnet/Notiser/Helikoptrar/Hkp-2.htm

AS 550 C2 DAAS (tier 6)

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AS 550 C2 Fennec Danish Army Air Service (Hærens Flyvetjeneste)

Basic data

Spoiler

Loadouts

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(Note its premium so everything is unlocked)

Stock

• 38x Mighty Mouse rockets: 290 mm

TOW 2A (upgrade)

• 4x  BGM-71E: 900+ mm

TOW 2B (upgrade)

• 4x BGM-71F: 250 + 500 mm

M18A1 (upgrade)

• 2x 7,62 mm M134: 1500 rpg
• 1x 7,62 mm M134: 1500 rpg + 2x BGM-71E: 900+ mm
• 1x 7,62 mm M134: 1500 rpg + 2x BGM-71F: 250 + 500 mm

Missiles

Spoiler

BGM-71E

Type: TOW 2A
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided HEAT-missile with improved engine, guidance and ERA-penetrator

Penetration: 900+ mm.

 

BGM-71F

Type: TOW 2B
Function: Generation 2 wire-guided top-attack EFP-missile with dual warhead.

Penetration: ca 250 mm (against era) + ca 500 mm (against roof armor).

 

Note

Since the Danish operated the AS 550 C2 into the early 2000's it most likely had access to the TOW2A and TOW2B missiles at the end of its service. I have no source that it used them but it should to my knowledge be capable of firing them and it would be a nice selling point. As Denmark is part of NATO i have given them US-designations.

 

Rockets

Spoiler

LAU-3A rocket pods

Type: 76,2 mm rocket pod.

Weight: ca 157 kg.

Ammunition: 19x FFAR HEAT-rockets

Rocket model: 3-inch Mighty Mouse rockets.

 

Note

According to current research no rocket pod was historically used on the Danish Fennec's. However they did use LAU-3A rocket pods on their F-35 Draken attackers. For the sake of game play i'm proposing that the Danish Fennec would get access to the LAU-3A pod which already exists in game.

Guns

Spoiler

7,62 mm M18A1 gun pod

Type: .30 caliber gatling-gun pod.

Weight: 100 kg

Ammunition: 1500 rounds

Gun model: 7,62 mm M134

Fire rate: 6000 rpm

 

Note

According to current research no gun pod was historically used on the Danish Fennec's. However since they were part of NATO they most certainly had access to some gun pods. For the sake of game play (helicopters battles mainly) i'm proposing that the Danish Fennec would get access to the US M18A1 gun pod which already exists in game.

Missile system

Spoiler

Two Swedish/US made Saab/Emerson HeliTOW launchers, one on each side, mounted on NATO-standard AS550C2 pylons. Each can carry two TOW-2 missiles.

Missile sight

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The Danish AC 550 C2 was equipped with the same daylight operation HeliTOW sight as the standard Swedish HKP 9A. It was fully stabilized and featured a laser range finder, although it lacked a night sight.

 

 

Description

So this is a Danish anti tank helicopter based on the AS 550 C2 Fennec, featuring the same HeliTOW system as the Swedish HKP 9A. The Fennec helicopters were built in France but the HeliTOW system was primarily built in Sweden by Saab, and presumably also fitted to the Fennec helicopters in Sweden by Saab.

 

Saab received an order from Denmark for 12 HeliTOW systems in 1987 and the first complete HeliTOW Fennec was delivered August 1990. These went to serve on as anti-tank helicopters throughout the 1990's into the early 2000's. By the year 2000 the Fennec's were outdated. Due to advancements in anti-helicopter technology it was no longer viable to perform day missions with the Fennec's. Since they lacked a night sight Denmark decided to upgrade them. On the 14th of April 2000 the Danish army sent request to Saab for them to be upgraded with night sights. Saab had offered a night sight for the HeliTOW already by 1987 but it was too expensive for most nations at that time. Saab reported on the 17th of April 2000 that this acquisition was worth over 200 million Swedish crowns (SEK). However it seems this idea was scrapped as i cannot find any picture of a Danish Fennec fitted with a night sight. Looking at history this adds up. In 2003 the Danish Fennec's were disarmed and given to the Danish air force as scout helicopters.

 

Pictures

Spoiler

Sources
Several

 

Mi-28A 042  (Just history)

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Mi-28A Havoc Yellow 042

Description
This is the second part of the AHS 95 story. Along with the Apaches, Sweden also rented a Russian Mi-28A Havoc, or to be specific, prototype yellow 042, for testing purposes. Sweden did train one pilot for the Mi-28 along with service personell but in the end the Mi-28 was only piloted by a Russian pilot as the Mi-28 lacks dual controls. The Swedish personell instead flew as gunners. After testing was done the Mi-28 went back to Russia. 

 

Weapons

During the testing phase the Mi-28 was tested with both 9M1154 Shturm and 9M120 Ataka guided missiles as well as S-8KO rockets. While the missiles were seen as great the rockets were seen as lackluster as 5 out of 40 rockets didn't go off once they hit the target. The gun didn't work at all due to bad boresighting.

Camouflage
The Mi-28A was painted in Russian desert camouflage and did not get repainted or remarked for Swedish trials.

Pictures

Spoiler

From the tests in 1995. Here next to an Strv 121.

Sources
Rotorbladet nr 2 1996
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=38209

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by blockhaj
minor

[Antezscar 371]

nicley done!

[blockhaj 3,560]

added pics for the hkp 8

[blockhaj 3,560]

Added proposed prems

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

What is about Swedish A109LUH?

[blockhaj 3,560]

1 minute ago, _Condottiero_ said:

What is about Swedish A109LUH?

It only carries 7,62 mm machine guns.

[CreditCardCmndo 1,261]

The test flew the Ah-64A a weekend long for evaluation same as the Mi-28 i don't think that qualifies these Vehicles to be in the TT 

[blockhaj 3,560]

2 minutes ago, CreditCardCmndo said:

The test flew the Ah-64A a weekend long for evaluation same as the Mi-28 i don't think that qualifies these Vehicles to be in the TT 

Well there is nothing else.

[CreditCardCmndo 1,261]

3 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

Well there is nothing else.

 

Then thy won't be within the Top tier in that department.

Sweden got a lot of nice Vehicles tbh 

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

On 20/02/2020 at 17:34, blockhaj said:

It only carries 7,62 mm machine guns.

LUH can carry 8*TOW/HOT/Hellfire 

https://forum.warthunder.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=448820

Even if Sweden doesn't use these loadouts, they can add it with them as I understand from CM comments.

Edited March 9, 2020 by _Condottiero_

[blockhaj 3,560]

17 minutes ago, _Condottiero_ said:

LUH can carry 8*TOW/HOT/Hellfire 

https://forum.warthunder.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=448820 1.36 MB · 9 downloads

Even if Sweden don't use these loadouts, they can add it with them as I understand from CM comments.

Sweden does not use these load outs so i'm against it.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

30 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

Sweden does not use these load outs so i'm against it.

yeah, me too, just saying

[Cedjoe 5,482]

So apart from helicopters used in trials, Sweden only uses Bo-105 as attack helicopters, or are there some not listed here?

[shibarakunetero@psn 950]

Would it be worth bringing in one of these Bo-105 just to ensure Sweden gets a helicopter at all? I'd like to have any heli for completion's sake even though 3.5 range ATGM helis and worse have no chance to survive make their time.

 

With the freedoms Gaijin take with vehicles we might as well get the Apache for a top. Would suit the top vehicles.

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

Adding Apache to Swedes just because they trained with 2 sounds so wrong to me... I mean this is like pushing so hard for Swedish TT to be ruler of top tier  

Btw both Mi28 and AH64 are in same situation in such case. Mi28 also have been flyed by a Swedish personel, even if he was only a gunner... They would deffinitely fly it with Swedish pilot too if it wasn't lack on dual controls as you said or Swedes were a bit used to Russian avionics. If one of'em gonna be added in future (which I'm highly against it myself) there is nothing to stoping devs for adding other too... 

 

I'm ready to be called as hater, but trust me I'm not. I really like this TT, but you gotta admit that this TT have been developed faster than any Nation in game and already has some hardly beatable vehicles(especially the Strv 122), lacking on some stuff isn't a new thing in this game so... gotta be fair by considering other nations too 

[blockhaj 3,560]

On 07/04/2020 at 02:28, CneuHa3_TUR said:

Adding Apache to Swedes just because they trained with 2 sounds so wrong to me... I mean this is like pushing so hard for Swedish TT to be ruler of top tier  

Well i think we all do but there is literally nothing else. Maybe if we give the Hkp 9A the TOW-2B top attack missile it can be pushed to something near top tier but we still do not know how effective top attack munition will be in game as it has not been added yet. Maybe it proves extremely OP or something? But even with the Apache it would not be able to be top tier as it lacks air to air missiles.

On 07/04/2020 at 02:28, CneuHa3_TUR said:

Btw both Mi28 and AH64 are in same situation in such case. Mi28 also have been flyed by a Swedish personel, even if he was only a gunner... They would deffinitely fly it with Swedish pilot too if it wasn't lack on dual controls as you said or Swedes were a bit used to Russian avionics. If one of'em gonna be added in future (which I'm highly against it myself) there is nothing to stoping devs for adding other too... 

 

I'm ready to be called as hater, but trust me I'm not. I really like this TT, but you gotta admit that this TT have been developed faster than any Nation in game and already has some hardly beatable vehicles(especially the Strv 122), lacking on some stuff isn't a new thing in this game so... gotta be fair by considering other nations too 

The tree has been in development for about the same amount of time as the other trees and it had a lot of research done beforehand so i wouldn't call it rushed. As for the Strv 122 it was most likely added as a selling point as the tree wouldn't be as interesting with just the CV90120 at end game. If the game eventually gets a higher BR sealing the 122 would definitely be moved up as it currently lacks its historical ammo for balance reasons.

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

16 hours ago, blockhaj said:

Well i think we all do but there is literally nothing else. Maybe if we give the Hkp 9A the TOW-2B top attack missile it can be pushed to something near top tier but we still do not know how effective top attack munition will be in game as it has not been added yet. Maybe it proves extremely OP or something? But even with the Apache it would not be able to be top tier as it lacks air to air missiles.

As I said, no need to push for it if Swedish AF lacking on such Helicopters. Same case happening with Japan too... Almost all nations has SPAAs with SAMs but Japan has no such vehicle and won't have anytime. Cuz they haven't developed or purchased such vehicle IRL... Or maybe Chinese TT willl never have Top Tier MBTs as good as Leo2A5 or Strv 122 for example. Even Italians has no such Helicopters like Apache too. Maybe A129 LBH or T129 ATAK can carry same armaments of Apache but not as much as it can unfortunately.

I mean Your team ain't gonna lack for Heavy CAS support while You have other NATO / Allied Nations on Your side. You just gotta play other TT to have Heavy Gunships as Apache or etc. 

[shibarakunetero@psn 950]

Japan has SAM vehicles suitable for implementation in the game. 100%

 

Throw a good model of these in the game and non-premium and done. I love the life on the ground even when the sky is full of Russian and American, 90C FANMAN CREW REPRESENT!

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

1 hour ago, *shibarakunetero said:

Japan has SAM vehicles suitable for implementation in the game. 100%

Man hope you're not mentioning Type 11 and Type 03 SAM systems cuz those are not single truck used systems, they require second vehicle with radar and even if you miss that point and add those in to game, their range gonna dominate whole maps we currently have, cuz they're Mid and Long range SAM Systems. Only thing can be added is Type 93 with x8 Type 91 SAMs and they're pretty much like Japanese Modified Stingers... So it's not actually equal to vehicles such as Tunguska, ADATS or FlaRakPz 1...

[Sille322 252]

Very good job,

I think the tree is fine even with the helis that are like 1 off use/close uses (it really is not the first time this has happened for many outher nations, maus,T95, strv81 rb52 and Is-6 some examples)

 

I think it is more important to flesh out a tree as much as possible and keep a good balance, and right now lacking a top tier heli is very noticebly due to half the team can die within min from a KA or AH on many maps and even airplanes have a hard time countering them due to air to air missiles. 

[blockhaj 3,560]

Added another prem option. See "Bastarden".

[__Gripen__ 525]

Nice to see that you were actually able to pull togheter a small Swedish helicopter tree; I didn't belive this would have been possible!

 

However, the AH-64A and (especially) the Mi-28 seem to me a quite excessive stretch and very controversial... 

 

On 09/03/2020 at 08:18, _Condottiero_ said:

LUH can carry 8*TOW/HOT/Hellfire 

https://forum.warthunder.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=448820

@_Condottiero_ That is a brochure that I have also linked in the past as proof that the A109 LUH could carry TOWs, but however I was mistaken: I've never seen photo/video evidence of any A109 LUH firing the TOW missile (let alone HOT or Hellfire) and it's likely the HeliTOW system was never actually integrated on the LUH.

The brochure shows:

- an A109 firing a TOW missile... but the helicopter depicted a Belgian A109 BA, not a LUH.

- a Malaysian A109 LOH equipped with a quad TOW launcher... however, Malaysia has never equipped its A109s with the system and I belive their armed forces are not among the users of the TOW missile, so It's likely that the launcher of the photo is a mock-up.

 

I would say there is no definitive proof that the LUH was ever tested with live anti-tank missile weaponry.

Swedish LUHs / Hkp-15s surely were never armed with them.

[blockhaj 3,560]

1 hour ago, __Gripen__ said:

I would say there is no definitive proof that the LUH was ever tested with live anti-tank missile weaponry.

Swedish LUHs / Hkp-15s surely were never armed with them.

The HKP 15 lacks the ability to mount pylons to my knowledge. It can however mount machine guns in movable mounts.

[Arne7 72]

Have you considered making suggestion threads for most of those, if not all? Or is it just sufficient to document all of them in here instead? Wondering because I had the interest to go and write threads on the Hkp 3B abd Hkp 9A, and I only stumbled across through a Google search for more info on the trails with Rb 53 system on the Hkp 3.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

I would suggest adding a Norwegian NH90 NFH ASW Helicopter as part of a naval component. 

http://www.seaforces.org/marint/Norwegian-Navy/AVIATION/NH90.htm