Buccaneer S.2B

[Flame2512 3,384]

I've found a paper from the UK Defence Research Agency which confirms that the TIALD was tested extensively on one of their Buccaneers (that being XV344):

Seeing as Pavespike was very basic (no thermals and seemingly no automatic tracking / stabilisation) I really hope we get the option to unlock TIALD when the Buccaneer S.2B comes.

 

Source:

Spoiler

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Flame2512

[Mr_Pokemon26295 358]

On 29/12/2021 at 10:05, Flame2512 said:

I've found a paper from the UK Defence Research Agency which confirms that the TIALD was tested extensively on one of their Buccaneers (that being XV344):

Seeing as Pavespike was very basic (no thermals and seemingly no automatic tracking / stabilisation) I really hope we get the option to unlock TIALD when the Buccaneer S.2B comes.

 

Source:

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That would make it a great alternative to the Jag, from the view matches I've played in air rb, there is almost no point to play the S.2 with stuff like the Thunderchief vastly outclassing it and its problematic bombs tnt wise the S.2 has really gone down the drain, the S.2B would appreciated now more than ever with aim9g it would even fit at 9.7, 9L though could drag it up to say 10.0/10.3/10.7 . I can see the line going Bucc S2, Bucc S2.B then F111 Aardvark with TSR2 somewhere in-between.

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

On 09/01/2022 at 04:19, Mr_Pokemon26295 said:

That would make it a great alternative to the Jag, from the view matches I've played in air rb, there is almost no point to play the S.2 with stuff like the Thunderchief vastly outclassing it and its problematic bombs tnt wise the S.2 has really gone down the drain, the S.2B would appreciated now more than ever with aim9g it would even fit at 9.7, 9L though could drag it up to say 10.0/10.3/10.7 . I can see the line going Bucc S2, Bucc S2.B then F111 Aardvark with TSR2 somewhere in-between.

i feel like they can make an artificial early aircraft just to fill the gap like the S.2B at 10.0 with LGB and AIM-9G and a S.2D at 10.7/11.0 with AIM-9L and TV Martel missile + LGB

[Flame2512 3,384]

On 10/01/2022 at 20:56, MonkeyBussiness said:

i feel like they can make an artificial early aircraft just to fill the gap like the S.2B at 10.0 with LGB and AIM-9G and a S.2D at 10.7/11.0 with AIM-9L and TV Martel missile + LGB

 

The S.2D was a navy version so got retired in 1979, it is just an S.2 with Martel. Only the S.2B got all the cool new stuff.

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

52 minutes ago, Flame2512 said:

 

The S.2D was a navy version so got retired in 1979, it is just an S.2 with Martel. Only the S.2B got all the cool new stuff.

one more reason to have both at different br and different capabilities

[Flame2512 3,384]

54 minutes ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

one more reason to have both at different br and different capabilities

 

Why pad out the grind though. I'd rather not spend 300,000+ RP just to get Martel missiles, then another 300,000+ RP to get other stuff. I'd rather spend 300,000+ rp once and get all the new stuff. If Gaijin want to pad out the bomber line then there are other options (V-bombers, Nimrod, TSR-2), rather than the Buccaneer S.2D.

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

27 minutes ago, Flame2512 said:

 

Why pad out the grind though. I'd rather not spend 300,000+ RP just to get Martel missiles, then another 300,000+ RP to get other stuff. I'd rather spend 300,000+ rp once and get all the new stuff. If Gaijin want to pad out the bomber line then there are other options (V-bombers, Nimrod, TSR-2), rather than the Buccaneer S.2D.

i get your point but those bomber don't have the same role , it's fine to have different opinion and i disagree with you

[Gunjob 1,094]

Also since my bug report for the AN\ALQ-101 for the Jaguar GR.1/A was passed for consideration the S.2B also carried it. Might be worth attaching to the same post. 

Spoiler

[Headnaught 502]

+1, with everything that's in the game currently, this couldn't come soon enough. Maybe not with anti-radiation missiles but the TV guided rocket is a distinct possibility that we already have examples of in game, as well as improved defenses for the plane compared to the current variant.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Headnaught

[InterFleet 357]

1 AIM9L with TIALD pods + 6 1000lbs LGB would be the best loadout for ground RB, IDK how many LGB could be mounted on the usual 1000lbs triple rack,

or alternatively 2 AIM9L for maximum damage against Ace Air RB jets

Almost everything is already found on Jaguar GR1A so it will be a nice addition

 

Even with 2 AIM9L I don't see this thing higher than 10.0 though, its flight performance is good but the climb rate is just not there

[Firestarter__ 106]

I'm absolutely for the S.2B

Currently Britain's Ground Support is wanting. There is one aircraft in the entire tech tree that can use laser bombs, namely the Jaguar GR.1A. Three aircraft with Bullpups. Both our current Buccaneers, and the Scimitar. 
Britain has no TV guided weapon systems, or any laser guided missile platforms that are not aboard helis. It, as far as i'm concerned, does not make sense to not add the Buccaneer S.2B

 

Gaijin would only have to model Paveway IIs, which iirc are already in game, Pave Spike (which is going to be a visual model, we already have Laser systems without Thermals in game), and add Martel and AN/ALE-40. In the whole scheme of things it shouldn't be too hard a job for the Devs. It'd fill a gap in Britain's tree quite nicely (although one might argue it would make it quite repetitive for your aircraft for CAS. Maybe Gaijin could give an F-111K. I don't know about that one)

Feels like Gaijin are being unreasonable by not adding this one. We're a year on from this suggestion, and with Britain threatening to lag behind in air, both this and a early variant Tornado would be extremely welcome for British Top Tier right about now.

 

Edit: given the CDK files revealing AGM-78 to be in the files, Martel is even more pertinent now. It would make even more sense when AGM-78 is released, because as far as i'm concerned it is an "when, not if" for ARMs to be added, for Martel to be released alongside it.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Firestarter__
AGM-78 edit

[Flame2512 3,384]

I've updated my summary of British weapons with a bunch of technical detail about the both versions of the Martel. It would be really cool to see them in game, but their range might be a bit too much. I suppose they will be balanced in so much as they are big slow missiles, so could be shot down (maybe gaijin should start giving a reward for shooting down missiles and saving team mates).

[Minimann333@live 85]

On 18/02/2021 at 21:29, Flame2512 said:

 

Introduction

War Thunder is moving towards ever more advanced weapon systems (for example there are rumours of target designator pods from the recent update teaser video). With this in mind I would like to suggest the Buccaneer S.2B for the British aircraft tree, as a logical next step from the Buccaneer S.2 we currently have in game.

 

What was the Buccaneer S.2B?

Since before the Canberra entered service the RAF had been looking for its replacement. This led to the TSR-2 project (more on that in this excellent suggestion), which was eventually cancelled in favour of the F-111K, which was itself cancelled. This left the RAF some 18 years later still looking for a Canberra replacement. The RAF had been offered the Navy's Buccaneer early on as an alternative to the TSR-2 programme, however they had tuned it down for not meeting their requirements. Now with requirements having changed somewhat, and not having many options, the RAF decided to adopt an upgraded version of the Navy's Buccaneer S.2 aircraft.

 

What does it offer over the Buccaneer S.2?

In terms basic airframe the Buccaneer S.2B is essentially the same as the Buccaneer S.2. The main changes were RAF avionics, additional fuel stored in a bulged bomb bay door, and the option to carry more advanced weaponry (see next section). Another improvement added to the Buccaneer S.2B was the AN/ALE-40 chaff / flare dispensers. A pair of flare dispensers, each with 15 flares, were placed in the underside of the fuselage, just forward of the airbrake (see image below); in addition a pair of chaff dispensers, each with 30 chaff cartridges, were fitted to the wing pylons (like on the Phantoms).

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The Buccaneer S.2 in game has the option to carry a pair of experiment Microcell countermeasures pods on the outboard pylons; while the AN/ALE-40 dispensers on the S.2B would have less flares you would not have to forgo any ordnance in order to carry them (unlike the S.2 which loses two wing pylons to carry flares). In addition the placement of the flare dispensers on the S.2B would be more effective than the flare pods on the S.2 in game, and allow you to carry both Sidewinders and flares.

 

An advanced ECM pod could also be carried, however ECM is not implemented yet, so I will gloss over that for now.

 

Weapons

What sets the S.2B apart from the base S.2 is the more advanced weapons it can carry. While not all of these weapon types are currently in game, having the Buccaneer S.2B in the British tech tree will be very useful for when they do come. Particularly as the Buccaneer S.2B is in some cases the only British aircraft equipped with these types of weapons (at least until some much more modern aircraft are added).

 

Air-to-air missiles

As well as the AIM-9Bs you get on the S.2, the S.2B can also carry AIM-9Gs and AIM-9Ls. Obviously the AIM-9L is not available on fixed wing aircraft in game yet, but when all-aspect IR missiles are added to air battles a pair of AIM-9Ls will give the S.2B excellent self-defence capability. In the mean time a pair of AIM-9Gs would be a very welcome upgrade over the AIM-9Bs we currently have.

 

Bombs

In terms of unguided bombs your options are pretty much the same as the S.2 we currently have in game: up to 16,000 lb of 500 lb or 1,000lb bombs. However the S.2B can also carry a Pavespike target designator pod, allowing it to self designate targets for it's own 1,000 lb Paveway laser guided bombs, or designate targets for other friendly aircraft. While laser guided bombs are not in game yet the will likely come at some point.

 

Unguided rockets

There aren't any. Unfortunately the RAF did not use rockets on the Buccaneer.

 

Air-to-ground missiles

This is where stuff gets interesting. Unfortunately you do have to say goodbye to the AGM-12 Bullpups, but in return you get access to the Martel missile. Martel stands for "Missile, Anti-Radar and Television", as the name suggests it comes in both both Anti-radiation and TV guided versions. While neither type of weapon is currently in the game, they will be at some point (TV guidance has apparently been confirmed by the devs); and the Buccaneer S.2B is one of the only British aircraft to get these types of weapons. This would make having the Buccaneer S.2B necessary for Britain to have access to AR and TV missiles when they are added. Limited information is available online about the Martel, but it is a undoubtedly very large missile at 3.89 m (TV) or 4.14 m (AR) long, and weighing 574 kg (TV) or 535 kg (AR). The missile is also know to have a fairly long range; different sources give varying figures, but around 30 - 60 nautical miles (60 - 120 km), depending on launch conditions seems to be widely reported. The warhead of both missiles is widely reported to be 150 kg. Photos of the Martel can be seen below:

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AR Martel

 

TV Martel

 

The TV Martel is equipped with a Semi-Armour Piecing High Explosive warhead and impact fuse for use against hard targets. When the TV Martel is fired it climbs to an altitude above the firing aircraft and a TV image is displayed to the operator. The missile flies on a form of auto-pilot (the operator is allowed limited course correction) while the operator uses the missile's camera to identify the target; at this point they switch the missile into terminal mode. This gives them control over the azimuth of the missile, once the missile gets close enough to the target it enters a dive and gives the operator full control over the missile to guide it on to the target.

The AR Martel is equipped with a High-Explosive blast warhead and proximity fuse for use against enemy radars. The missile locks on to enemy radars (e.g. the radar of an anti-aircraft system); when it is fired the missile climbs to an altitude above the aircraft and automatically flies to the target. Once reaching the target it enters a steep dive and uses the proximity fuse to explode next to the target.

 

The Buccaneer S.2B can carry up to four AR Martel missiles, or three TV Martel missiles (one pylon is required for a data-link pod when carrying TV missiles). It is also possible to carry a mixed load of TV and AR missiles, as can be seen in the images below).

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The Buccaneer S.2B also got access to the fire-and forget Sea Eagle missile, but this is an anti-shipping missile, so I won't talk about it.

 

Photos

Just some more photos of the Buccaneer S.2B

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Flight performance

The flight performance of the Buccaneer S.2B is pretty much identical to the Buccaneer S.2 we have in game already. It is slightly heavier due to the fuel in the bomb bay door, but that is about it.

 

To meet the requirements for performance information, here is the data from Airvectors

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And Wikipedia

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General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 63 ft 5 in (19.33 m)
• Wingspan: 44 ft (13 m)
• Height: 16 ft 3 in (4.95 m)
• Wing area: 514 sq ft (47.8 m2)
• Empty weight: 30,000 lb (13,608 kg)
• Gross weight: 62,000 lb (28,123 kg)
• Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Spey Mk.101 turbofan engines, 11,000 lbf (49 kN) thrust each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 580 kn (670 mph, 1,070 km/h) at 200 ft (61 m)
• Maximum speed: Mach 0.95
• Range: 2,000 nmi (2,300 mi, 3,700 km)
• Service ceiling: 40,000 ft (12,000 m)
• Wing loading: 120.5 lb/sq ft (588 kg/m2)
• Thrust/weight: 0.36

 

Conclusion

Even without any of the advanced weaponry the Buccaneer S.2B would still be a valuable improvement over the S.2, with it's better missiles, and better flare system. It is also one of the only British aircraft capable of carrying anti-radiation missiles, and possibly the only capable of carrying TV missiles; so when these types of weapons are added the Buccaneer S.2B will be a very important aircraft to have in the British tree.

 

Sources

AP101B-1202-15A BUCCANEER S Mk 2A and 2B AIRCREW MANUAL - FLIGHT SYSTEMS
AP101B-1202-15C BUCCANEER S Mk 2B AIRCREW MANUAL WEAPON SYSTEM (AVIONIC UPDATE)
AP101B-1202-16 BUCCANEER S Mk 2A & 2B OPERATING DATA MANUAL 

Wikipedia - Blackburn Buccaneer
Airvectors - The Blackburn Buccaneer
Thunder and Lightnings - Buccaneer

+1 from me, the current Buccaneer has no place in game other than rushing the map in GRB to get one carpet Bombing run. 

[AVROVULCANXH558 349]

On 14/08/2022 at 13:22, Flame2512 said:

so could be shot down (maybe gaijin should start giving a reward for shooting down missiles and saving team mates).

This will definitely need to be implemented as we begin to see larger and longer ranged missiles in game, such as cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles. 

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.