german light tank Spähpanzer SP I.C

[CaID 8,996]

 

i would like to suggest a extremly interresting light tank, fit for coldwar to fight MBT in both historical and performence side, the Spähpanzer SP I.C

 

just to make it clear, i am not going to share here any information related his performance from the internet. as i have found primary source, i will not spread any miss-information found on Wikipedia or World of tank. those are amateur work, i want Gaijin to be as accurate as possible.

 

the Spähpanzer SP IC was a French tank built by Hotchkiss to export in Germany. named SP 1.C Antichar de reconaisence cannon de 90mm in France, the tank was proposed to Germany and France as part of the Hotchkiss CC2 family who was for a moment, intended to be produced in France, but turned out to only been produced in germany in the version SPz 11-2.

the SP IC was a reconnaissance vehicles who was to offer better anti-tank capacity for the reconnaissance, in Germany the vehicles was proposed for service along the SPz 11-2 so the reconnaissance units would have some firepower capable to defeat a Soviet tank of the time. it was trial in 1962 and ultimately not retained. the only prototype, hosting a new turret exclusive for the German services, is currently exposed in Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung Koblenz. the very same prototype was also tested by the french with a different turret before been offered to germany.

 

Armament

Spoiler

while having A LOT of miss-information about the main armament of this tank, there is no doubt for me of the gun who is clearly identified in the Hotchkiss brochure.

 

it is not a MECAR or Cockrill like some had exposed in World of tank, but a French 90mm DEFA type 921. the very same gun used in the AML-90. often misslable as Mecar gun

the tank carry a total of 50 rounds making it very capable to fight any target.

the elevation and depression angle are -8/+15 on the first prototype, there is however no confirmation of the elevation of the 2nd turret of the prototype but some internet source reported -8/+20 wich is plausible

 

a coax LMG (most likely a MG42) is also paired with the gun with a ammo load of 2400 rounds

 

information about the gun

CN 90 F1 (D921)

Hide contents

Gun of type rifle tank gun. smoothbore and very light, capable to be used on light vehicles.

 

The CN-90 F1, originally know as the DEFA D921, was a smoothbore anti-tank gun created to be mounted on light vehicles. capable to shoot fixed fin-stablized rounds, this gun could destroy any light amored vehicles and even some early MBT. this gun was created to offer alternative firepower to emerging country who couldn't affort a real MBT.

 

 

Weight: 390 kg

Magazine: none

barrel caliber : L/33

rounds size: unknown

Rate of fire: 8-9 rpm

effective range : 900 m

 

ammo

Hide contents

OCC 90-62 (HEATFS)

standard anti-tank round with composite B filler and fix fin. it was capable to defeat a MBT.

 

projectile weight :  3.65 kg

explofive filling : 0.64 kg Composition B

velocity : 750 m/sec

 

penetration (ingame + reported)

320mm at any distance, angle 0°

 

OE 90 F1 (HE)

standard High explosive round

 

projectile weight :  5.28 kg

explofive filling : 0.945 Composition B

velocity : 650 m/sec

 

OFUM PH (smoke)

standard smoke round

 

projectile weight :  5.4 kg

filling : 0.8 white phosphorous

velocity : 750 m/sec

 

ODR (canister)

standard anti personel round

 

projectile weight :  5.28 kg

filling : 4 kg

velocity : 640 m/sec

 

 

souce

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/firm29.html

https://www.armscom.net/products/90mm_f1_heat_t_m630

Hide contents

 

 

 

mobility

Spoiler

as the SP IC is heavier than the SPz 11-2, the mobility would had been reduced unless they carry a better engine. it was exactly what they did.

 

the SP IC host a more powerful engine providing 195 hp instant of 164 hp. the suspension was strengthened and the transmission was not having 5 forward speed. this allow the vehicles to drive as fast and even more smoothly than the lighter version. the reverse speed and acceleration shall make the mobility better than the SPz 11-2

 

 

the vehicles is having 5 forward gear and 1 rearward gear. going as fallow

Gear 1 : 0 to 7.5 km/h

Gear 2 : 8 to 14 km/h

Gear 3 : 14 to 23.6 km/h

Gear 4 : 23.6 to 39.2 km/h

Gear 5 : 39.2 to 58 km/h

reverse : 0 to 8.3 km/h

 

protection

Spoiler

been part of the Hotchkiss CC2 family, those tanks have the particuliarity to ALL share the same armor thickness of the hull.

 

been a light tank give it a relatively low level of protection. the armor is made of an high quality steel alloy of Chrome-Nickel-Molydenum. laminated and tempered. each plate was built and carefully inspected with the high standard of the french requirement. a plate of each lot was tested for the resistance and bullet perforation.

the plate are assemble by welding and treated before been carefully inspected.

 

if from one type of hotchkiss light tank from another, the hull may change, the armor remain the same in all of them.

the front-lower plate is 15mm

the front-uppet plate is 10mm

the side and rear is 8mm

the roof is 8mm

the bottom is 15mm at the front and 8mm at the rear half.

 

the engine compartment is closed by a air tight wall.

 

the hull is peinted with a special olive-green color who not only give a basic camouflage, but also give infra-red reflection closer to the flora than an usual tank. the muffler is inside the tank, and the muzzle is behind the grill of the air-exist, making the Infra-red detection at the minimum.

 

the more active defense can be provided by the smoke screen. the Sp IC carry 8x smoke launcher on the rear of the turret who allow at least 2x smoke screen.

 

 

 

Mass	9.500 kg
Length	4.51 m
Width	2.28 m
Height	2.39 m
Crew	3 (driver, commander, Loader)
Armor	Front upper plate : 10mm Front lower plate : 15mm side : 8mm rear : 8mm roof : 8mm front half of the floor : 15mm rear half of the floor : 8mm
Main armament	1 x 90mm DEFA D921
Secondary armament	8 x Smoke grenade launchers
Engine	1 x Hotchkiss et Cie 6-cylinder petrol engine 195 hp
Suspension	torsion bar
Operational range	390 km (244 miles)
Maximum speed	58 km/h

 

source

 

Hotchkiss brochure (produced by Hotchkiss for the purpose of exporting the tank, send to the French General engineer the 6th of june 1961)

Hide contents

blob:https://imgur.com/fc6075f6-6458-4797-8ee4-ec20b35a7cd0

 

less reliable source

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/382705-something-less-awfulrungspanzer/

https://tanktastic.fandom.com/wiki/Spahpanzer_SP_I.C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spähpanzer_SP_I.C.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spähpanzer_SP_I.C.

 

while been not put into service, this tank would do a great addition to the German TT. it would offer a good light tank to match with the early MBT. it is well capable to fight tanks like IS-3 and T-44 and in bonus, it have a low infra-red signature making it less easy to spot using high tech device. i think it would be a great and fun tank even if it would not be particularly fast or protected.

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[WolfFang2003 160]

On 15/08/2021 at 23:33, CaID said:

 

i would like to suggest a extremly interresting light tank, fit for coldwar to fight MBT in both historical and performence side, the Spähpanzer SP I.C

 

just to make it clear, i am not going to share here any information related his performance from the internet. as i have found primary source, i will not spread any miss-information found on Wikipedia or World of tank. those are amateur work, i want Gaijin to be as accurate as possible.

 

the Spähpanzer SP IC was a French tank built by Hotchkiss to export in Germany. named SP 1.C Antichar de reconaisence cannon de 90mm in France, the tank was proposed to Germany and France as part of the Hotchkiss CC2 family who was for a moment, intended to be produced in France, but turned out to only been produced in germany in the version SPz 11-2.

the SP IC was a reconnaissance vehicles who was to offer better anti-tank capacity for the reconnaissance, in Germany the vehicles was proposed for service along the SPz 11-2 so the reconnaissance units would have some firepower capable to defeat a Soviet tank of the time. it was trial in 1962 and ultimately not retained. the only prototype, hosting a new turret exclusive for the German services, is currently exposed in Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung Koblenz. the very same prototype was also tested by the french with a different turret before been offered to germany.

 

Armament

Reveal hidden contents

while having A LOT of miss-information about the main armament of this tank, there is no doubt for me of the gun who is clearly identified in the Hotchkiss brochure.

 

it is not a MECAR or Cockrill like some had exposed in World of tank, but a French 90mm DEFA type 921. the very same gun used in the AML-90. often misslable as Mecar gun

the tank carry a total of 50 rounds making it very capable to fight any target.

the elevation and depression angle are -8/+15 on the first prototype, there is however no confirmation of the elevation of the 2nd turret of the prototype but some internet source reported -8/+20 wich is plausible

 

a coax LMG (most likely a MG42) is also paired with the gun with a ammo load of 2400 rounds

 

information about the gun

CN 90 F1 (D921)

Reveal hidden contents

Gun of type rifle tank gun. smoothbore and very light, capable to be used on light vehicles.

 

The CN-90 F1, originally know as the DEFA D921, was a smoothbore anti-tank gun created to be mounted on light vehicles. capable to shoot fixed fin-stablized rounds, this gun could destroy any light amored vehicles and even some early MBT. this gun was created to offer alternative firepower to emerging country who couldn't affort a real MBT.

 

 

Weight: 390 kg

Magazine: none

barrel caliber : L/33

rounds size: unknown

Rate of fire: 8-9 rpm

effective range : 900 m

 

ammo

Reveal hidden contents

OCC 90-62 (HEATFS)

standard anti-tank round with composite B filler and fix fin. it was capable to defeat a MBT.

 

projectile weight :  3.65 kg

explofive filling : 0.64 kg Composition B

velocity : 750 m/sec

 

penetration (ingame + reported)

320mm at any distance, angle 0°

 

OE 90 F1 (HE)

standard High explosive round

 

projectile weight :  5.28 kg

explofive filling : 0.945 Composition B

velocity : 650 m/sec

 

OFUM PH (smoke)

standard smoke round

 

projectile weight :  5.4 kg

filling : 0.8 white phosphorous

velocity : 750 m/sec

 

ODR (canister)

standard anti personel round

 

projectile weight :  5.28 kg

filling : 4 kg

velocity : 640 m/sec

 

 

souce

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/firm29.html

https://www.armscom.net/products/90mm_f1_heat_t_m630

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

mobility

Reveal hidden contents

as the SP IC is heavier than the SPz 11-2, the mobility would had been reduced unless they carry a better engine. it was exactly what they did.

 

the SP IC host a more powerful engine providing 195 hp instant of 164 hp. the suspension was strengthened and the transmission was not having 5 forward speed. this allow the vehicles to drive as fast and even more smoothly than the lighter version. the reverse speed and acceleration shall make the mobility better than the SPz 11-2

 

 

the vehicles is having 5 forward gear and 1 rearward gear. going as fallow

Gear 1 : 0 to 7.5 km/h

Gear 2 : 8 to 14 km/h

Gear 3 : 14 to 23.6 km/h

Gear 4 : 23.6 to 39.2 km/h

Gear 5 : 39.2 to 58 km/h

reverse : 0 to 8.3 km/h

 

protection

Reveal hidden contents

been part of the Hotchkiss CC2 family, those tanks have the particuliarity to ALL share the same armor thickness of the hull.

 

been a light tank give it a relatively low level of protection. the armor is made of an high quality steel alloy of Chrome-Nickel-Molydenum. laminated and tempered. each plate was built and carefully inspected with the high standard of the french requirement. a plate of each lot was tested for the resistance and bullet perforation.

the plate are assemble by welding and treated before been carefully inspected.

 

if from one type of hotchkiss light tank from another, the hull may change, the armor remain the same in all of them.

the front-lower plate is 15mm

the front-uppet plate is 10mm

the side and rear is 8mm

the roof is 8mm

the bottom is 15mm at the front and 8mm at the rear half.

 

the engine compartment is closed by a air tight wall.

 

the hull is peinted with a special olive-green color who not only give a basic camouflage, but also give infra-red reflection closer to the flora than an usual tank. the muffler is inside the tank, and the muzzle is behind the grill of the air-exist, making the Infra-red detection at the minimum.

 

the more active defense can be provided by the smoke screen. the Sp IC carry 8x smoke launcher on the rear of the turret who allow at least 2x smoke screen.

 

 

 

Mass	9.500 kg
Length	4.51 m
Width	2.28 m
Height	2.39 m
Crew	3 (driver, commander, Loader)
Armor	Front upper plate : 10mm Front lower plate : 15mm side : 8mm rear : 8mm roof : 8mm front half of the floor : 15mm rear half of the floor : 8mm
Main armament	1 x 90mm DEFA D921
Secondary armament	8 x Smoke grenade launchers
Engine	1 x Hotchkiss et Cie 6-cylinder petrol engine 195 hp
Suspension	torsion bar
Operational range	390 km (244 miles)
Maximum speed	58 km/h

 

source

 

Hotchkiss brochure (produced by Hotchkiss for the purpose of exporting the tank, send to the French General engineer the 6th of june 1961)

Reveal hidden contents

blob:https://imgur.com/fc6075f6-6458-4797-8ee4-ec20b35a7cd0

 

less reliable source

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/382705-something-less-awfulrungspanzer/

https://tanktastic.fandom.com/wiki/Spahpanzer_SP_I.C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spähpanzer_SP_I.C.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spähpanzer_SP_I.C.

 

while been not put into service, this tank would do a great addition to the German TT. it would offer a good light tank to match with the early MBT. it is well capable to fight tanks like IS-3 and T-44 and in bonus, it have a low infra-red signature making it less easy to spot using high tech device. i think it would be a great and fun tank even if it would not be particularly fast or protected.

No. Send to shadow realm. 

[The-Bunkers-7@psn 220]

+1

[HerrSektor 3,840]

Germany is missing this vehicle from the tech tree...

[stuka2689 314]

'Other game' nostalgia.

+1

[eleks12 1,079]

+1

[Milocat 4,854]

Nice find!  +1 from me for sure.  Perhaps France could get it as well as Germany?

[modern_primat 182]

bring all WoT vehicles as you as you can

 

+1, put it as researcable vehicle.

 

also, it was has magazine loader(it removed in german light tank line reworking in 2016?).. i mean, like AMX light tanks... in WoT.. and i see, it has no magazine loader. but ok.. 90mm still has great punch

Edited August 31, 2021 by modern_primat

[CaID 8,996]

On 23/08/2021 at 22:00, Milocat said:

Nice find!  +1 from me for sure.  Perhaps France could get it as well as Germany?

france never even tested it, they had tested some of the early APC on wich this tank is based but that's it. i do not think france should get that one.

[Milocat 4,854]

14 minutes ago, CaID said:

france never even tested it, they had tested some of the early APC on wich this tank is based but that's it. i do not think france should get that one.

 

Ah, okay.  Never mind then.

[qpranger 1,887]

9 hours ago, modern_primat said:

bring all WoT vehicles as you can

 

The only one I miss is Waffentrager auf E100 

[Wolf_89 2,525]

Would fit nicely in a German light tank/vehicle line.

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

+1

[QuintusMaximus99 88]

Commenting to show support on this thing, would go along well or even replace my rusty German M41 Bulldog

Additionally I have found some new love with the AMX ELC bis, and this Spz SP I C gives me similar vibes :D

[Headnaught 502]

This is a really cool design with some high effort research. How could I not support it? +1 for me.

[SiberianSnakeSIB 12]

/delete

Edited October 4, 2022 by SiberianSnakeSIB