Maps, Map design Feedback

[Renamed82178 10]

so I try and play arcade tanks because well I hate my self. but I seem to get on the jungle map a VERY large proportion of the games I play. this would be fine if it was a nice well designed map but like most of the maps I is unfortunately not but i would go as far as to say that this map is flat ou broken. one side always wins and the map has so many horrible problems. and I seem to get placed on it 2 or 3 times in a row. is it just me?

[KrebsCOHO 1,445]

What's unbalanced about it? Would like a comprehensive description of what and where

[Radom 4,245]

It's balanced for RB mode in my view. You will have a hard time balancing anything as long as enemy tags are visible in AB.

[SENAdmiral 2,030]

I love that map on Arcade because:

 

1 - have free RP boots on :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

2 - offer sweet SPAA invulnerable positions on both sides

 

3 - one side can gather even more free RP on landing boats

 

4 - enough terrain depressions / river to hide and hit

 

PS - talking about SPAA - I do think the Coelian its the best tank on climbing high steps of rough terrain, at + 30º !

Edited May 20, 2015 by SENAdmiral

[Yewhew 4,389]

Great map.  Never had a problem with balancing, you never know what side is going to win.

[PointyPuffin 5,065]

The only imbalance on that map is between people with high graphics settings vs. users with low settings.

[Gomez__Adams 2,036]

I hate the map only because there's so many places to hide you never know where you're going to get hit from.

[DocProfit 2,663]

ULQ.

Config.blk editing.

 

Nuff said.

[SENAdmiral 2,030]

The only imbalance on that map is between people with high graphics settings vs. users with low settings.

I hate the map only because there's so many places to hide you never know where you're going to get hit from.

thats why I go always on the sea side.... there its much easier to spot the red guys, and you have a bit of cover. plus you only expose a flank ,

[Der_Schuhmacher 5,879]

thats why I go always on the sea side.... there its much easier to spot the red guys, and you have a bit of cover. plus you only expose a flank ,

I beg to differ

>South side, map edge
Small hilly area I can get my Hellcat up on from either side. I have an unobstructed view of both spawns and across the lake. It proves increasingly powerful of a spot in RB as no one looks there

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

Hi There Guys/Gals  Hunternz Here Again. 

We Have Noticed There Are A Few Threads & Posts Going Around About Map Design & Map Arrangements.

So Decided To Make A Single Thread For Feedback & Opinions & Even Tactical Advice.

 

 

 

What is expected is constructive criticism that can be used for feedback , research , and easily navigated by staff who could use this thread to find such information.

 

Forum rules  obviously are  in place and we expect you to follow them here as with anywhere  , Any post deemed as braking or disruptive will be removed regardless of other content so please keep it civil and watch how you express yourselves, but all feedback good/bad is welcomed.  Remember be respectful.

 

 

Will you get feedback  , Staff may very well give feedback myself included , so questions are engorged , some questions may very well be asked to be  posted and or be moved to Dev Q&A.. 

 

Please take the time to read feedback staff give 

 

 

 

Cheers 

 

Matty 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

(Thanks for Fixing whatever part of the link was busted, Hunternz & BigBawsBarabus)

 

There are a metric crapton of problems pertaining to map design and BR compression in Tank RB.

 

But since you're working on Japanese Tanks and Ships, I get you're too busy for major fixes. 

 

Here's a simple hotfix that will make a lot of people happy.

 

1. Swap out RB Maps with their versions found in Tank Sim, if some don't have expanded versions, then just expand the map borders. Or for select maps, just retire them from rotation for repairs (Karelia).

 

2. Copy and Paste the Tank Sim lineups into RB forms and make

all 8 or 9 lineups available every day. Many of these lineups are markedly more balanced than the crap that RB's Matchmaker throws at us.

 

3. For the normal queue, have the matchmaker start narrow and gradually get broader if games at or right near your BR can't be found. First minute in queue - look for matches at your BR. Next two min - use a 0.3/0.4 spread. Next two min - use a 0.7 spread. If queue drags on for over 5min, THEN use a 1.0 spread. Uptiers thus become the rarity instead of the norm.

Edited December 26, 2016 by MH4UAstragon

[AceOfAces99@psn 4,109]

First of all I want to thank the deve for their excellent work on map designs,always awesome! But I want to know if we are going to see new Realistic Battles Air Maps. Last one was Norway,implemented time ago,so,can we give a cut with tanks maps please?

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

18 minutes ago, *AceOfAces99 said:

First of all I want to thank the deve for their excellent work on map designs,always awesome! But I want to know if we are going to see new Realistic Battles Air Maps. Last one was Norway,implemented time ago,so,can we give a cut with tanks maps please?

 

afaik i believe there are new locations planned for 2017.  Like always we like to keep the details a surprise until closer time of releasing/introducing said maps. Dev bog  will have detailed information upon closer time.   Naturally this question could be posted in Dev Q & A but you may find you will get a similar answer  also that current thread is full of questions so its been halted temporarily and only selected questions will be moved and approved in time  

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

(Thanks for Fixing whatever part of the link was busted, Hunternz & BigBawsBarabus)

 

 

Your welcome freind , now i know you like to slip in a few things in your posts not related to topic , it really need to stay on track .. BRs , lineups , and so on really won't be touched here at all .. Map related only  (yes aware these other values are related to maps per say)  

[Bat_the_Judge 982]

So, many RB and SB players including me are not quite happy with were the tank mapd are going especially with the last update. few maps borders were made smaller and other maps got changed spawns. for example the frozen pass now got spawns so close to eachother that you just drive for half a minute and shoot an enemy that is literally 200m away from you. such incounters would very rarely happen irl. also, there are far too much CQC maps currently, i would personally love seeing more maps like kursk or mozdok, with open fields for 1.5km or more sniping as well as a bit of CQC near the middle of the map. also, the 38th paralel map is quite unrealistic, unrealistic passages and just boulders all around, the whole map looking very artificial, unlike other tank maps. Also, having night battles or storms more often would definitely improve the maps in both air and ground battles

30 minutes ago, MH4UAstragon said:

 

 

3. For the normal queue, have the matchmaker start narrow and gradually get broader if games at or right near your BR can't be found. First minute in queue - look for matches at your BR. Next two min - use a 0.3/0.4 spread. Next two min - use a 0.7 spread. If queue drags on for over 5min, THEN use a 1.0 spread. Uptiers thus become the rarity instead of the norm.

I agree with this idea a lot, however 1. the time ahould be maybe lowered to 30s for each stage and 2. br 9.0 must be created because seeing Maus or Jagdtiger against ATGMs really hurt the top tier gameplay. Anyway, this is my feedback, thanks for reading and continue to please our emperor by improving the game. 

 

 

Palmatius100

Edited December 26, 2016 by palmatius100

[AceOfAces99@psn 4,109]

6 minutes ago, Hunternz said:

 

afaik i believe there are new locations planned for 2017.  Like always we like to keep the details a surprise until closer time of releasing/introducing said maps. Dev bog  will have detailed information upon closer time.   Naturally this question could be posted in Dev Q & A but you may find you will get a similar answer  also that current thread is full of questions so its been halted temporarily and only selected questions will be moved and approved in time  

Well,we got some Air maps in the Passed to Development,like Naples,Casablanca and Mariana Island. The first one could be very interesting,'cause in WW2 the volcano of Naples erupted. A special effect such as smoke on the volcano would be unique!

Edited December 26, 2016 by *AceOfAces99

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

Just now, *AceOfAces99 said:

 The first one could be very interesting,'cause in WW2 the volcano of Naples erupted. A special effect such smoke on the volcano would be unique!

 

This would be epic i agree , and have viewed the suggestions and are very awesome suggestions that will be taken into consideration for development. Obviously not all suggestions will make it to the table and some kind of variants of said suggestions maybe seen (possibly) . Because development is a roadmap , many suggestions (that may be accepted and developed) and or new locations are scripted for later down the road , dont be disheartened if no immediate visible introductions are made.     

[AceOfAces99@psn 4,109]

14 minutes ago, Hunternz said:

 

This would be epic i agree , and have viewed the suggestions and are very awesome suggestions that will be taken into consideration for development. Obviously not all suggestions will make it to the table and some kind of variants of said suggestions maybe seen (possibly) . Because development is a roadmap , many suggestions (that may be accepted and developed) and or new locations are scripted for later down the road , dont be disheartened if no immediate visible introductions are made.     

I know,i have to wait a lot,but,i did a great job feeding that suggestion,finding documents and a large amount of skins. I should make another one i think...

Edited December 26, 2016 by *AceOfAces99

[Necrons31467 14,236]

Alright, let me start off by saying what doesn't work:

 

- Spawn to spawn line-of-sight:

 

 

Even without the introduction of ATGM's, spawn to spawn killing had already become an increasingly apparent flaw in map design, so many times do I see countless higher tiered vehicles camp the bridges as depicted above, the main issue is that you're basically rolling the dice right at the start of the match on wether or not you'll be able to make use of the northern half of the map simply by wether or not you'll get sniped, I do not believe that it was the developers intention for the northern part to not be used, increasing the bent in the main river would resovle this issue as buildings would then block line-of-sight.

 

 

The southern spawn of the left-side team is especially vulnerable to players being killed mere seconds after spawning in, many attempts to reach the bottom capture zone and/or an attempt to flank south will be met by fire from the right-side team's upper spawn, what makes this even more annoying is that the right-side team actually has a extremely potent hull-down position from behind the hill protecting their spawn, making any attempt to counter this extra difficult.

 

 

 

 

- Maps that feature vast distances between spawns, yet very close quarters sections in the middle.

 

 

Maps such as Hürtgen Forest and the old layout on Battle for El Alamein (or standard layout in simulator) are especially guilty of this, there are two main problems here,

 

Problem #1: sometimes people stay at their northern spawns and attempt to snipe, this isn't a major issue, but sometimes almost 50% of your team does this, at this point there aren't enough players going for their objectives to prevent their enemies from dominating said objectives, this problem is only made worse by the vast distance from spawn to spawn, this results in the sniping players being highly unlikely to inflict enough damage to make up for their absence from the objectives.

 

Problem #2: travelling these distances to where you'll eventually be fighting at anyways can be incredibly boring, especially to those in slower vehicles such as Mäuse and T95's, often resulting in people simply enabling their cruise controll and alt+tabbing out of the game entirely, Normandy does a much better job at this, the spawns are far enough apart that players can safely leave their spawns yet still choose to engage in combat very early on in the match, much like Poland (which I'll discuss later on), it allows many different playstyles to be used.

 

Kursk also does this far better, nearly every vehicle can get into the town area within a few minutes of spawning in, yet it still leaves enough distance to choose your own path without fear of already being fired upon, unlike Frozen Pass:

 

 

- Maps that feature chaotic and/or irregular terrain

 

Stalingrad is a map that immediately jumps to mind:

 

 

Just from this single position alone there are seven possible ambush positions which are often utilized for me to keep an eye on, and this is only the very edge of the map, the problem here isn't that this map provides a lot of cover, it's that the map provides it's cover far too densely, there isn't ever really a time when you're able to look around and be sure that there isn't a tank withing a mere 200 metres of yourself, this makes the map very chaotic and it often feels like you're playing whack-a-mole as you simply give up and camp a certain position untill you see a turret sticking out from behind one of the factory windows.

 

The new map Abandoned Factory does this much better, it shares similar structures and overall layout, but features far greater distances between the buildings, this provides a better overall view of the battlefield and lessens the annoyance of being killed by an unseen opponent, instead of feeling like he just got lucky and happened to be behind that one out of eight corners you didn't check, you instead simply forgot and/or overlooked your opponents position behind one of three corners, making the death feel fair and a result of your own mistake.

 

 

Now on to what I believe works quite well:

 

Even though I mentioned Poland in a negative manner previously, I do believe it is a excellent map by it's basic design, mostly because of three main reasons:

 

- The map features good visuals, not only graphically speaking, but also in a clarity sense, it's far more gentle to eyes than certain snow maps, and is more select in it's colours being used, this allows for clear visibility on various tanks and obstacles, the buildings and the various forms of cover are clear and don't feature bad hitboxes like many rock formations on maps like Finland and El Alemein, the corners of buildings make it clear how you'll be able to hide your tank effectively.

 

- The map provides excellent gameplay variety, any tank can work on this map, faster tanks can easily capture the zones at the town area aswell as the souther portion of the map, mediums can make effective use of the town's flanking routes and heavies have plenty of Streets with buildings on their flanks to provide them cover with, even SPAA are relatively well protected in their spawn by rocks and hills blocking line-of sight (with the exception being the Southern spawn points ofcourse), the Southern portion of the map featuring the hill also manages to provide excellent hull-down cover should a certain team succede in securing the hill overlooking the town.

 

- It has some of best layouts of any map and features excellent variations of the main map, the Break gamemode works extremely well on this map, the extended upper and lower portions are excellently utilized and the progression from cap zone to cap zone feels natural, it also successfully attempts to funnel players into the town area without forcing them to do so by resctrictive map borders, again, any tactic works here.

The map's near mirrored sides make it so that it's well balanced, yet it still feels like a natural place that could exist in the real world, unlike Karelia, which as some would say feels like a WoT map in it's artificial pathing and layout, this also makes for decent gameplay for those more competitively minded.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, this is some of the feedback which has come to mind at this time, I'm sure I left some things out here and there, perhaps I'll come back on those at a later date, I hope this is of some use and any feedback/discussion is ofcourse welcomed.

 

-Necrons

 

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by Necrons31467

[AlanHR 5,261]

These are things that came to my mind first:

1. In general lots of maps have limited corridors of movement. IMO SB Mozdok is currently most versatile map in regards to size, terrain and approach routes. One example could be new Abandoned factory map. If map is bigger and made in Mozdok style with factory in the middle it would make much more sense tactical wise to hold and control it as you would need to control terrain around it too. More approach routes more different games. Currently win or lose games on same map playout almost the same with very slight differences because of battle BR.

 

2. Enemy spawns shouldn't be visible on minimap to at least try to lower spawncamping.

 

3. Ground objectives (cap points) shouldn't be visible from air or at least no markers on minimap. Pilots should look for targets themselves or coordinate with ground units.

 

4. Objective placement should have some tactical value and it should be defendable.

 

5. Balancing spawn points on some maps (distances to caps).

 

As for tactical value here is my post from other thread:

 

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

24 minutes ago, palmatius100 said:

 i would personally love seeing more maps like kursk or mozdok, with open fields for 1.5km or more sniping as well as a bit of CQC near the middle of the map. also, the 38th paralel map is quite unrealistic, unrealistic passages and just boulders all around, the whole map looking very artificial, unlike other tank maps. Also, having night battles or storms more often would definitely improve the maps in both air and ground battles

I

 

 

Palmatius100

 

I know it doesn't seem so , but general feedback of bigger maps are not all that wanted , some are saying a few more like said maps above would be nice but no bigger  and so on , regarding SB RB EC , with world war mode looking at replacing such modes , we could very well see scales enlarged (possibly)  more infomation about WWM will be coming early in the new year , when i say early , no not in a few days  

 

38th P    map has sniper battles in mind and tactical ambushing , cover needed to be  around the towns areas and so on to enable advancement and cover from snipers both sides because of the elevation changes across the map so rock formations may seem random but are not  , a lot of good feedback has come for this map . Once a area is known it can become rather tedious , especially when you having to drive 1.5min to get to where you really want to be  and eventually end up where you would in a small configuration of said maps  anyway for engagements.

 

In saying this , this is what this thread is for , to see where you guys are at and take your feedback  

[alexmcguiness 436]

I am currently ok with maps, but there could be improvements.

 

1. Some maps do have the problem of spawns being out in the open, and subject to snipers killing new-spawns at range. Simply helping shelter spawns by protecting them with rocks/houses/obstacles would help quite a bit.

 

2. Reducing the size of maps that were once bigger isn't the best idea. Making smaller Hürtgen forest or, smaller El Alamein is quite frustrating. I get that some people like smaller maps, but making big maps smaller is not a good idea. Instead, make new, smaller maps and keep the old ones at their original size.

 

Thanks for making this thread, it's good that you are listening to the community 

[Davenprof 249]

I suggest for the Ash River map and the Eastern Europe map they put the old maps back into rotation, as I thought both were well balanced as they were.  BUT - they could ALSO have the new versions in rotation - so that way everyone is happy.  Those who wanted a new map setup on the old maps get those sometimes, and those who like the old setup get those sometimes.  Everyone wins. 

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

Please dont be disheartened if you posts are not addressed straight away , will get there :-) or other staff will . ok guys :-)

And i must say great start to the thread well done , please upvote users on  any feedback you like 

[PL_Andrev 7,386]

1 hour ago, Necrons31467 said:

Alright, let me start off by saying what doesn't work:

 

- Spawn to spawn line-of-sight:

 

It is a paradox, but for all city / town maps the spawn-to-spawn line-of-sight is working well due "hiding" the spawn points by buildings.

Problem is at AB mode which give extra bonuses to camping / sniping mode like enemy detection + hit & range aim support.