EC-665 Tiger ARH - Southern Hemisphere Tigers

[Alpine_Lynx 811]

EC-665 Tiger ARH

Hello everyone. I would like to introduce you to a very exciting Southern Hemisphere EC-665.

History:

Spoiler

In 2001, the Australian Army decided to purchase a new attack helicopter to replace the aging OH-58 and the "Bush Ranger" gunships built on the UH-1. The competition was hotly contested between four candidates, the A-129, AH-1Z, AH-64D, and EC-665, but the EC-665 was ultimately selected and 22 were deployed between 2004 and 2010.
After some operational issues, the aircraft reached final operational capability in 2016 and is still in use by the Australian Army.

In 2021, however, the Australian government announced the purchase of 29 new AH-64E attack helicopters to replace the EC-665, which had previously been criticized for its high running costs. These helicopters will be in service from 2025.

 

Features:

 

Spoiler

The Tiger ARH is an upgraded version of the HAP. The main differences are the addition of Hellfire II air-to-surface missile capability and the use of Belgian-made FZ90 70mm rockets (compatible with Hydra 70), unlike the SNEB rockets used in France.
Many sources state that an enhanced engine (MTR390-E) was used by the ARH, but it was the MTR390-2C that was installed in the ARH at the time of production.

 

Photo:

Spoiler

Photo of Unit 6 (A38-006). Unlike the other Tigers, the Australian Tiger has markings on the model.

Photo showing ARH payload. Placed on the outside is the FZ-233 rocket pot and on the inside is the M299 launcher.

Illustration of the pylon, inside can carry an FZ-225 launcher.

and video.

 

Armament & Specifications:

Spoiler

Crew: 2
Length: 14.08m
Wingspan: 4.50m
Height: 3.83m
Empty weight: 3060kg
Normal takeoff weight: 4710kg
Maximum takeoff weight: 6100 kg
Fuel capacity: 1080kg
Maximum speed: 290 km/h (315 km/h without armament)
Cruise Speed: 280km/h
Engine: MTR-390 2C x 2
Takeoff power: 150 kgf (in-game specifications)
Armament:30 mm GIAT M781 cannon,Thales FZ90 70mm Rocket×54(19×2+7×2),AGM-114M or AGM-114R×8

 

 

Potential Listings:

Spoiler

4×FIM-92 or Mistral: EC-665 should be able to be equipped with an AAM, but ARH has not found any references to it being equipped with an AAM, so it is listed as potential.

AGR-20 APKWS:This suggestion is very detailed, but simply put, it is a laser-guided hydra rocket that was tested in the Northern Territory, Australia, in November 2014, in 10 separate firing trials at ranges from 1,500 to 4,500 meters, altitudes from 200 to 1,500 feet, and speeds up to 140 knots. All ten shots hit targets within one meter of the laser spot.
The rocket motor, warhead, and launcher used were Belgian-made FZ rockets.
ARH has actually equipped and tested this armament, but we are not sure if this armament will be implemented in Warthunder, so we have listed it as potential.

Note: Cirit missiles have been added to the T129 ATAK on the Dev server, making it extremely likely that APKWS can be implemente

 

ARH in the game:

Spoiler

This helicopter is the best option to add to France and serves as an excellent Air-to-ground helicopter in France Toptier due to the better Hellfire and APKWS.

 

Source:

Spoiler

Die Präsidentenhure/Eduardo Esmi

Australia Army Weapon Systems Handbook Volume 1 Strategic Information and Weapon Systems/International Business Publications, USA

 

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/tiger-in-combat-the-french-army-experience

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/laserguided-rocket-hits-the-mark-for-australian-defence-force

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a38.htm

https://aacoma-interreg.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/General-Presentation-Thales-Belgium-002.pdf

https://www.anao.gov.au/work/performance-audit/tiger-armys-armed-reconnaissance-helicopter

https://worldofaviation.com/2019/07/eye-on-the-tiger-a-look-at-the-armys-armed-reconnaissance-helicopter/

https://fz.be/tiger-arh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger

 

Thanks for reading this far! Let me know what you think if you like!

Edited September 7, 2022 by Alpine_Lynx

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[totolescargo 598]

3 hours ago, Alpine_Lynx said:

Photo showing ARH payload. Placed on the outside is the FZ-233 rocket pot and on the inside is the M299 launcher (Hellfire II).

I believe this picture is actually a Tiger HAD-E, the Spanish version of the Tiger HAD, carrying Spike LR missiles as well as some 70mm rockets.

 

Also, this helicopter has no business being in the UK tech tree.

It shouldn't even be an option in the poll to be honest.

[Alpine_Lynx 811]

3 hours ago, totolescargo said:

I believe this picture is actually a Tiger HAD-E, the Spanish version of the Tiger HAD, carrying Spike LR missiles as well as some 70mm rockets.

Oh, sorry. I replaced the wrong photo.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Alpine_Lynx

[Alpine_Lynx 811]

7 hours ago, Alpine_Lynx said:

EC-665 Tiger ARH

Hello everyone. I would like to introduce you to a very exciting Southern Hemisphere EC-665.

History:

Reveal hidden contents

In 2001, the Australian Army decided to purchase a new attack helicopter to replace the aging OH-58 and the "Bush Ranger" gunships built on the UH-1. The competition was hotly contested between four candidates, the A-129, AH-1Z, AH-64D, and EC-665, but the EC-665 was ultimately selected and 22 were deployed between 2004 and 2010.
After some operational issues, the aircraft reached final operational capability in 2016 and is still in use by the Australian Army.

In 2021, however, the Australian government announced the purchase of 29 new AH-64E attack helicopters to replace the EC-665, which had previously been criticized for its high running costs. These helicopters will be in service from 2025.

 

Features:

 

Reveal hidden contents

The Tiger ARH is an upgraded version of the HAP. The main differences are the addition of Hellfire II air-to-surface missile capability and the use of Belgian-made FZ90 70mm rockets (compatible with Hydra 70), unlike the SNEB rockets used in France.
Many sources state that an enhanced engine (MTR390-E) was used by the ARH, but it was the MTR390-2C that was installed in the ARH at the time of production.

 

Photo:

Reveal hidden contents

Photo of Unit 6 (A38-006). Unlike the other Tigers, the Australian Tiger has markings on the model.

Photo showing ARH payload. Placed on the outside is the FZ-233 rocket pot and on the inside is the M299 launcher.

Illustration of the pylon, inside can carry an FZ-225 launcher.

and video.

 

Armament & Specifications:

Reveal hidden contents

Crew: 2
Length: 14.08m
Wingspan: 4.50m
Height: 3.83m
Empty weight: 3060kg
Normal takeoff weight: 4710kg
Maximum takeoff weight: 6100 kg
Fuel capacity: 1080kg
Maximum speed: 290 km/h (315 km/h without armament)
Cruise Speed: 280km/h
Engine: MTR-390 2C x 2
Takeoff power: 150 kgf (in-game specifications)
Armament:30 mm GIAT M781 cannon,Thales FZ90 70mm Rocket×54(19×2+7×2),AGM-114M or AGM-114R×8

 

 

Potential Listings:

Reveal hidden contents

4×FIM-92 or Mistral: EC-665 should be able to be equipped with an AAM, but ARH has not found any references to it being equipped with an AAM, so it is listed as potential.

AGR-20 APKWS:This suggestion is very detailed, but simply put, it is a laser-guided hydra rocket that was tested in the Northern Territory, Australia, in November 2014, in 10 separate firing trials at ranges from 1,500 to 4,500 meters, altitudes from 200 to 1,500 feet, and speeds up to 140 knots. All ten shots hit targets within one meter of the laser spot.
The rocket motor, warhead, and launcher used were Belgian-made FZ rockets.
ARH has actually equipped and tested this armament, but we are not sure if this armament will be implemented in Warthunder, so we have listed it as potential.

Note: Cirit missiles have been added to the T129 ATAK on the Dev server, making it extremely likely that APKWS can be implemente

 

ARH in the game:

Reveal hidden contents

This helicopter is the best option to add to France and serves as an excellent Air-to-ground helicopter in France Toptier due to the better Hellfire and APKWS.

 

Source:

Reveal hidden contents

Die Präsidentenhure/Eduardo Esmi

Australia Army Weapon Systems Handbook Volume 1 Strategic Information and Weapon Systems/International Business Publications, USA

 

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/tiger-in-combat-the-french-army-experience

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/laserguided-rocket-hits-the-mark-for-australian-defence-force

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a38.htm

https://aacoma-interreg.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/General-Presentation-Thales-Belgium-002.pdf

https://www.anao.gov.au/work/performance-audit/tiger-armys-armed-reconnaissance-helicopter

https://worldofaviation.com/2019/07/eye-on-the-tiger-a-look-at-the-armys-armed-reconnaissance-helicopter/

https://fz.be/tiger-arh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger

 

Thanks for reading this far! Let me know what you think if you like!

After serious consideration since then, and considering the precedent set by M1A1 AIM, C2A1, etc., I decided to remove the option for the UK, although I do not like to reduce the options in a survey.
My apologies to those who voted for me.
Also, I have added some parts of the suggestion as I wrote it a long time ago.
 

[totolescargo 598]

5 hours ago, Alpine_Lynx said:

After serious consideration since then, and considering the precedent set by M1A1 AIM, C2A1, etc., I decided to remove the option for the UK, although I do not like to reduce the options in a survey.
My apologies to those who voted for me.

It's important to admit when you're wrong.

Props to you for that.

 

I believe it would make for a great squadron vehicle for France.

To be honest, I don't really see where else it could go ...

It would be too powerful for an event vehicle.

The Tiger HAD in France's tech tree is basically the same heli, except for the rockets.

Then you've got the Tiger HAP as a premium.

Lastly, as potential additions for the future for the tech tree, you've got both the Tiger HAD-E (Spanish Tiger HAD) that would be an upgrade over the Tiger HAD thanks to F&F Spike LR missiles. Alternatively you've got the Tiger HAC which is basically a French Tiger UHT (so definitely an upgrade over the current Tiger HAD).

 

Hence why I can only see it as a squadron vehicle.

Edited September 7, 2022 by totolescargo

[Milocat 4,848]

+1, would love to see the Aussie tiger.  

[MinenGishose 4]

I think this thing must have for Germany, like a sqadron vehicle on 10.3-10.0

[oom1992 649]

I think might be premium pack or squadron vehicle rank VII 10.7-11.7 for Germany or France tech tree

[Alpine_Lynx 811]

On 9/16/2022 at 4:26 PM, MinenGishose said:

I think this thing must have for Germany, like a sqadron vehicle on 10.3-10.0

 

On 9/16/2022 at 5:16 PM, oom1992 said:

I think might be premium pack or squadron vehicle rank VII 10.7-11.7 for Germany or France tech tree

Thanks for your comment!
I was thinking of placing the ARH in France, but it could certainly serve as a squadron vehicle to Germany, which has jointly developed the EC-665.
Since Germany can receive very few helicopters in the future compared to France, the option of giving the ARH to Germany instead of France is not very likely, but it can be done.

[_AG_FLUFFY_ 70]

Personally I am already irritated by the fact that all [with exception of two low ranking planes] Australian vehicles are a pay-to-play [excluding the M1A1 AIM-SA, which is only a pay-to-play if you do not have a squadron]. I find it absurd that anyone could honestly think that it is reasonable to grind out three different tech trees to play a single nations vehicles. As it is right now, if you want to play a combined arms line up for Australia, you will be at BR3.0 and have to pay for both the tank and the plane; or you will be at BR5.3 and have to pay for the tank [the Sea Fury was in Australian service and is a tech tree plane].

 

I think the Tiger ARH should be a squadron vehicle for the BRITISH tech tree.

 

Why should it go to either France or Germany? it is in the AUSTRALIAN Defence Force, which should go along with the rest of the commonwealth vehicles in the BRITISH tech tree. And if you say it is because it is manufactured by a French company and that is your justification, I expect the German Tiger to be moved into the French tech tree with the addition of the ARH.

[Nicolaser 2,024]

On 30/10/2022 at 02:56, _AG_FLUFFY_ said:

Personally I am already irritated by the fact that all [with exception of two low ranking planes] Australian vehicles are a pay-to-play [excluding the M1A1 AIM-SA, which is only a pay-to-play if you do not have a squadron]. I find it absurd that anyone could honestly think that it is reasonable to grind out three different tech trees to play a single nations vehicles. As it is right now, if you want to play a combined arms line up for Australia, you will be at BR3.0 and have to pay for both the tank and the plane; or you will be at BR5.3 and have to pay for the tank [the Sea Fury was in Australian service and is a tech tree plane].

 

I think the Tiger ARH should be a squadron vehicle for the BRITISH tech tree.

 

Why should it go to either France or Germany? it is in the AUSTRALIAN Defence Force, which should go along with the rest of the commonwealth vehicles in the BRITISH tech tree. And if you say it is because it is manufactured by a French company and that is your justification, I expect the German Tiger to be moved into the French tech tree with the addition of the ARH.

While I understand that if you want to play for national pride it's complicated but M1A1 AIM is already in US tech tree adding a tiger in the UK tech tree won't solve anything since both would still be separated and you won't be able to play them in the same line up.

 

Besides adding ARH to the UK tech tree would just render the whole french helicopter tree useless

 

Anyway dev made their choice with C2A1 and M1A1 AIM. It has no point in UK tech tree

[_AG_FLUFFY_ 70]

3 hours ago, Nicolaser said:

While I understand that if you want to play for national pride it's complicated but M1A1 AIM is already in US tech tree adding a tiger in the UK tech tree won't solve anything since both would still be separated and you won't be able to play them in the same line up.

 

Besides adding ARH to the UK tech tree would just render the whole french helicopter tree useless

 

Anyway dev made their choice with C2A1 and M1A1 AIM. It has no point in UK tech tree

Yes but at least it would not be exacerbating the situation by putting it in the UK tech tree - personally I think that the Canadian C2A1 is not specifically in the same situation as the Abrams. The M1A1 AIM-SA was modified to fulfil the Australian requirements while the C2A1 was a commercial offering not modified specifically for anyone. Also the M1A1 AIM-SA isn't too bad in the US tech tree because Australia is planning on getting the AH64E Apache so close enough to what is there.

 

 

The devs have also stated that they prioritise vehicles based on who used it, so if the ARH is added it must go to the British tech tree or else they are just picking and choosing and been hypocritical and ignoring their own logic.

 

Why is it fair that South Africa gets added to the British tech tree however Australia and Canada can be segregated despite Australia and Canada having significantly closer relations with the UK than South Africa. On ever level and every interpretation, Australian vehicles should go to the British tech tree regardless. 

 

Adding the ARH to the French should by default dictate the requirement of the German Tiger to also be moved to the French. But that is silly because the German Tiger is in German military service just like the ARH is in Australian military service.

Edited November 2, 2022 by _AG_FLUFFY_

[Godvana 533]

43 minutes ago, _AG_FLUFFY_ said:

Adding the ARH to the French should by default dictate the requirement of the German Tiger to also be moved to the French. But that is silly because the German Tiger is in German military service just like the ARH is in Australian military service

 

Eurocopter Tiger was a joint Franco-German project.

[_AG_FLUFFY_ 70]

17 minutes ago, Godvana said:

 

Eurocopter Tiger was a joint Franco-German project.

Exactly thank you. That is why the unique German version is in the German tech tree, the French variant is in the French tech tree and and Australian version should be in the British tech tree because it is as close as we have to a Commonwealth tech tree.

[Godvana 533]

38 minutes ago, _AG_FLUFFY_ said:

Exactly thank you. That is why the unique German version is in the German tech tree, the French variant is in the French tech tree and and Australian version should be in the British tech tree because it is as close as we have to a Commonwealth tech tree.

 

It's the British tree, not the Commonwealth tree. If Gaijin considered it the Commonwealth tree, then they would have added the M1A1 AIM, C2A1, and Class 3/TH800 to the British tree but they didn't, because it isn't. Cultural ties are only one of the factors that goes into determining what nations should get what vehicles.

 

From what I can gather, Gaijin's process is something like this:

Country of construction/design (C2A1, M1A1 AIM, Leopard 2PL) > country of operation > cultural ties (Argentinian SK-105) = gap in tech tree (ItO 90M in French tech tree)

 

What you are suggesting is no different than saying that USSR should get the Leopard 2PL because Poland was a former satellite state of the Soviet Union.

 

There is also the fact that Britain just got the excellent Rooivalk, while both France and Germany are both in dire need of a new Heli premium which the exported Tigers could provide (Spain and Australia).

[_AG_FLUFFY_ 70]

1 hour ago, Godvana said:

It's the British tree, not the Commonwealth tree. If Gaijin considered it the Commonwealth tree, then they would have added the M1A1 AIM, C2A1, and Class 3/TH800 to the British tree but they didn't, because it isn't. Cultural ties are only one of the factors that goes into determining what nations should get what vehicles.

So remove Finland? It's the Swedish tree not the Scandinavian tree.

However, if you want to get technical about things, we will do just that. ALL military equipment that from Australia, Canada, UK, ect is not owned by that country, it is owned by the monarchy. So a British Challenger 2 is owned by the exact same person as the Australian Tiger ARH; His Majesty King Charles III. This also includes all military personnel from said countries, they are employed by the monarchy, not the country, the oath is to the sovereign and not the country.

 

1 hour ago, Godvana said:

From what I can gather, Gaijin's process is something like this:

Country of construction/design (C2A1, M1A1 AIM, Leopard 2PL) > country of operation > cultural ties (Argentinian SK-105) = gap in tech tree (ItO 90M in French tech tree)

So I have been informed by a moderator that Gaijin prioritises the nation that operates the vehicle over the manufacturing nation when unique modified vehicles are in the tech tree, although this is getting more and more distorted as more vehicles gets added. Now I do believe that the M1A1 AIM-SA should be in the British tech tree as well, for the exact same reasons — However because it is a squadron vehicle and as such is free, I suppose it is fine, also noting that Australia is getting Apaches, there is a line up to be had.

 

1 hour ago, Godvana said:

What you are suggesting is no different than saying that USSR should get the Leopard 2PL because Poland was a former satellite state of the Soviet Union.

So, no...very incorrect actually. Actually what you said is absolute so incorrect I think you need to pause for a second and figure out reality.

You see, Poland, which is NOT part of the USSR, and was NOT part of Russia when the Leopard 2PL was designed and adopted, means that the Leopard 2PL does NOT belong in the Soviet tech tree. Because unlike Poland, which is NOT part of the USSR/Russia, Australia IS part of the Commonwealth, and DOES have the same monarchy.

 

See, the Monarchy of Australia, just like Britain, is His Majesty King Charles III.

 

The president of Poland is not Putin. Different countries you are thinking of. Russia, Poland, not the same.

 

1 hour ago, Godvana said:

There is also the fact that Britain just got the excellent Rooivalk, while both France and Germany are both in dire need of a new Heli premium which the exported Tigers could provide (Spain and Australia).

 

Ok, so ignore reality . . . That is directly what you are suggesting. 

More to the point, the Soviet/Russian tech tree has a great selection of helicopters, why should this not be the case for the British tech tree when in reality that is exactly the situation in the real world.

 

Do not, for one single second, even try to host a conversation that degrades the reality of the fact that Australia and Britain are part of the exact same entity under all applicable past, present, and future sovereigns as been nothing more than "cultural ties".

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by _AG_FLUFFY_

[Godvana 533]

"muh commonwealth!"

 

No point arguing with a teaboo...

[_AG_FLUFFY_ 70]

43 minutes ago, Godvana said:

"muh commonwealth!"

 

No point arguing with a teaboo...

There is always a point in having a debate if you believe your opinions are correct, the reality is that you have no valid augment to make. Simple.

[Draco_Argentum 1,504]

1 hour ago, Godvana said:

"muh commonwealth!"

 

No point arguing with a teaboo...

Some people really seem to think a crown held in personal union means way more than it actually does.

[Alpine_Lynx 811]

I was including the British as an option at the time I wrote this suggestion. As someone said, Australia and the British have cultural ties.

But then, after a bit of a debate, I decided to leave the UK out of the options. The British have little relevance with respect to this Tiger and it is a helicopter that does not belong in the British. If anything, BAE is involved in the APKWS launch trials, but it would be a shame to leave the precious Tiger in the British just because of this.

 

Unless an Australian sub-TT comes along, but currently the ARH is the most appropriate tree for France or Germany  (Both countries are involved with EC-665 and both urgently need a new Premium or Squadron helicopter, so either is fine)

Edited November 2, 2022 by Alpine_Lynx

[_AG_FLUFFY_ 70]

Ok, well I have voted and given my opinion of where I think it should go and why. No need to continue this current line and get into a heated argument. 

 

The only thing I will add is that it does not belong in the German tech tree at all. French I could be ok with [as they are the manufacturer and responsible for integrating the modifications required] if it is a squadron vehicle; that way it is optional to pay and if you don't want to pay for it to be a in a tech tree which you don't believe it should be in [such as me] well its free so what ever.

Edited November 2, 2022 by _AG_FLUFFY_

[Nicolaser 2,024]

I don't see how Germany would get their hand on ARH or HAD they were not involved in both of them: they are upgrades variant of HAP. And Germany is currently leaving the program of tiger standard 3

[Godvana 533]

1 hour ago, Nicolaser said:

I don't see how Germany would get their hand on ARH or HAD they were not involved in both of them: they are upgrades variant of HAP. And Germany is currently leaving the program of tiger standard 3

 

Australia is also ditching their Tigers, so it's a match made in heaven lol

[MinenGishose 4]

On 03/11/2022 at 02:09, Nicolaser said:

I don't see how Germany would get their hand on ARH or HAD they were not involved in both of them: they are upgrades variant of HAP. And Germany is currently leaving the program of tiger standard 3

Realy?
I think Germany can joun to the Tiger MKIII.
But Germany don,t give answer about this project.