PTZ89 should be 8.0

[somebody_Else 776]

5 minutes ago, Zephoid said:

The xxxx is it good against? What is this magical 8.7 you are envisioning? You have ~6 wheeled vehicles at that BR and its the worst. How the xxxx is that still considered good?

 

If you're not good at using it, that's fine. Everyone starts somewhere.

 

But you cannot blame the vehicle if you don't know how to use it.

 

Play it more, learn how to use it, it all falls into place.

[SrNowel59917 656]

3 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

 

No it isn't, its turret rotation is much faster and it has much better power to weight.

3 extra degrees per second and and 2 extra hp/t, on the other hand it has a much better apdsfs, thermals and better protection....

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

2 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

3 extra degrees per second

 

5

50% increase for comparison

 

2 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

and and 2 extra hp/t,

 

2.4HP/T

for comparisons sake the 59D1 has 0.3 higher HP/t than a Chieftain Mk.5

 

2 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

on the other hand it has a much better apdsfs,

 

Which doesn't matter due to protection thresholds, there's nothing 3BM25 can't pen that DM/23M111 Hetz/Type 83APDS suddenly will.

 

2 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

thermals

 

M41D superior to Leo A1A1 then

 

2 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

and better protection....

 

it's practically identical and you can argue either way, with the AMD having better overall chemical protection coverage on the glacis and APS to protect against ATGMs and the 59D1 have ERA on the turret to protect against HEAT-FS

 

It not "objectively" superior at all

[Zephoid 1,583]

17 minutes ago, somebody_Else said:

 

None of which is true. Use your eyes and there are plenty of great spots for the ptz

 

 

I'm not, I'm balancing by what would be at the same BR. And it would dominate 8.0's at 8.0.

You really use a lot of vague 'it would be good' ,'there are places' and other such xxxx. Specifics. Make an argument, don't deflect. 

By your logic, the VFW and OBJ120 would dominate their own BR. They don't for the same reason the PTZ wouldn't. 

[somebody_Else 776]

2 minutes ago, Zephoid said:

You really use a lot of vague 'it would be good' ,'there are places' and other such xxxx. Specifics. Make an argument, don't deflect. 

By your logic, the VFW and OBJ120 would dominate their own BR. They don't for the same reason the PTZ wouldn't. 

 

I did make specifics, you put your fingers in your ears and said "nuh uh".

 

learn how to use the vehicle instead of whining about it, please.

Edited March 30, 2023 by somebody_Else

[SrNowel59917 656]

19 minutes ago, Zephoid said:

At 8.0 everything has stabs and a few things have thermals. Everything has 400 pen HEAT or 300 pen APFSDS. So its an upgrade from those vehicles lethality at the cost of durability, depression, and turret rotation. You know, a TANK DESTROYER much the same as the SU-100P or waffentrager. 

none of all 8.0 actually have stab, apdsfs and laser range finder all at once, every single one makes a trade off of one of this even many 8.3 have this trade off thing that doesnt happen in the ptz.... and it already has better lethality over all mbt or light tanks in 8.7

[SrNowel59917 656]

9 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

Which doesn't matter due to protection thresholds, there's nothing 3BM25 can't pen that DM/23M111 Hetz/Type 83APDS suddenly will.

Thats is just a lie, the ztz 59 D1 is the perfect example, the era eats the 3bm25 without a problem, the difference between the dm23 and the 3bm25 is actually quite large, just for the fact that the 2bm25 is a short rod round, it bounce more it pen less on angles and it is overalle less reliable

 

18 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

M41D superior to Leo A1A1 then

two completely different scenario, a more similar one is the with the amx 30 super vs the leo a1a1, both of them offers quite similar performance but the thermal has higher br

 

[Zephoid 1,583]

28 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

none of all 8.0 actually have stab, apdsfs and laser range finder all at once, every single one makes a trade off of one of this even many 8.3 have this trade off thing that doesnt happen in the ptz.... and it already has better lethality over all mbt or light tanks in 8.7

Yup, almost like you are giving the lrf to the TD so it can do its job better than the medium or light tanks can.... imagine that. Almost like all the drawbacks on the tank would actually be counterbalancing the features it gets. You know, balance.  A TD has to to SOMETHING better than light tanks at the BR or its useless. The PTZ is useless. There is a reason you see a ton of other chinese 8.7s but nearly never a PTZ. And never at the top of the scoreboard. 

 

It has pen that, YET AGAIN, it doesn't need. But otherwise its lethality isn't any better than most of the other apfsds at the BR.  I keep referencing the VFW and OBJ 120 because they do this EXACT SAME THING and are at a much lower BR than their munitions would indicate. And yet are still balanced. 

 

30 minutes ago, somebody_Else said:

I did make specifics, you put your fingers in your ears and said "nuh uh".

 

30 minutes ago, somebody_Else said:

Use your eyes and there are plenty of great spots for the pt

 

Lol..... love the specific of 'there are plenty of great spots'. Such a great coordinate. Such a great specificity. 


 

6 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

Thats is just a lie, the ztz 59 D1 is the perfect example, the era eats the 3bm25 without a problem

 

I've had the ERA on the ZTZ59 eat a total of TWO atgms and ONE heat round in ~40 rounds. ATGMs were from a marder and a BMP and the HEAT was from a T92. Everything else has gone through. Its pretty frikn bad at stopping what its designed to stop. Imo, its a bunch of useless weight i would like to see as an upgrade option (like ERA is on a bunch of other tanks) so i could get faster turret rotation and movement speed. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Zephoid

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

1 hour ago, SrNowel59917 said:

Thats is just a lie, the ztz 59 D1 is the perfect example, the era eats the 3bm25 without a problem,

 

Correction

it's the only example

 

1 hour ago, SrNowel59917 said:

the difference between the dm23 and the 3bm25 is actually quite large, just for the fact that the 2bm25 is a short rod round, it bounce more it pen less on angles

 

Only the BMP-1 has constructional slope angles which would cause one to bounce and the other to not, it's 80 vs 81 for 100% bounce so DM23 would only bounce 99% of the time

 

1 hour ago, SrNowel59917 said:

two completely different scenario, a more similar one is the with the amx 30 super vs the leo a1a1, both of them offers quite similar performance but the thermal has higher br

 

wth

Even without thermals the AMX-30 is better than the Leopard A1A1 with much higher power to weight and again faster rotation speeds, and since your so horny about it: higher penning APFSDS 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what's next the Leo A1A1 has similar performance to the OF-40 MTCA and the Chieftain Mk 10 is an excellent 9.0 because someone likes it? 

[kcns 37]

All of you going REEEEE MUH FIVE SECOND RELOAD have you even played this? It only has a 10 round autoloader, after those 10 shots are gone youre stuck waiting about 30-40s per round to reload it. Compared to Object120 which has a 10s reload time, but you can at least shoot off all the rounds at that 10s rate. I dont think it needs to go down to 8.0 but 8.3 would be nice at least