Where are the grown ups?

[anyuser 5,136]

2 minutes ago, glock991 said:

I’m sorry but you trying to point the economy problem everyone complaining about as  a skill issue is honestly hilarious and so wrong I don’t even want to dive into that Rn

No, pointing out that the community got a very good track record of fullfilled wishes. Even getting mad when they got what they wanted, because it didn't worked out as they thought.

Pointing out, that the major problem of the game is not eco but players, because players decide this game.

Pointing out, that the number of steam reviews is low compared to the playerbase.

 

Pointing out, that just throwing money at everyone will hurt the game badly.

 

[IAMTRIGGERED 1,087]

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

No, pointing out that the community got a very good track record of fullfilled wishes. Even getting mad when they got what they wanted, because it didn't worked out as they thought.

Pointing out, that the major problem of the game is not eco but players, because players decide this game.

Pointing out, that the number of steam reviews is low compared to the playerbase.

 

Pointing out, that just throwing money at everyone will hurt the game badly.

 

Except Gaijin has way of going about things in a monkey's paw type fashion:

 

Here is a quick refresher on the time they changed win rewards about a year ago:

Except they didn't just do that, but additionally nerfed all rewards across the board, examples are legion. There is no good-will towards the community, only cynical insults like that.

 

Not sure why you are running cover for a multi-million dollar cooperation.

[Zucc_Boi 656]

15 hours ago, Vamilad said:

 

This is illogical.

 

Gaijin will do whatever it wants to do.  Players have given thousands of posts of feedback, we just now are also offering that feedback in the form of reviews.  If Gaijin wants to continue alienating their playerbase they're free to do so.  

 

Players want a better economy, Gaijin holds the levers.  Whining about the people tied to the tracks is asinine.

I also want to add that there are far fewer people on the forum than in game. That is because some are more invested in the game than others. And those more invested are also those who buy Gaijin's products. 

There is a very good illustration going on right now of how Gaijin's monetary source is fed up with it.

[glock991 1,005]

1 hour ago, anyuser said:

No, pointing out that the community got a very good track record of fullfilled wishes. Even getting mad when they got what they wanted, because it didn't worked out as they thought.

Pointing out, that the major problem of the game is not eco but players, because players decide this game.

Pointing out, that the number of steam reviews is low compared to the playerbase.

 

Pointing out, that just throwing money at everyone will hurt the game badly.

 

Please, point out to me all the fulfilled “wishes” that weren’t stealthy nerfed the following patches or just straight up worse because gaijin force feeds it to them without any say so of opting out and only when they receive extreme backlash(FPE and free Abramz debacle) they back down

 

Players DO NOT decide this game at the end of the day unless you only look at things service level, it’s extremely tone deaf.  Idk man if you think the number of current negative steam reviews(mind you most of whom are players with 100s and 1000s of hours and most likely paying)are small compared to the active player base you might need to recheck that math

 

If throwing money(most aren’t even asking for that) at everyone would “hurt” your game badly maybe you should reevaluate your game design

 

 

[anyuser 5,136]

56 minutes ago, glock991 said:

Please, point out to me all the fulfilled “wishes” that weren’t stealthy nerfed the following patches or just straight up worse because gaijin force feeds it to them without any say so of opting out and only when they receive extreme backlash(FPE and free Abramz debacle) they back down

 

"Some maps are **** for tanks of certain ages/tiers"

Ok, now maps are bound to certain BR ranges.

"We want all maps everytime"

Ok, we turned if off again

"We don't want all/small/whatever maps at certain tiers"

*sigh*

 

"We want a restriction of bombers in RB Air battles"
Ok, done, 4 bombers and 4 attackers each

"I get matches with 4 bombers and very few fighters against the same number of fighters"

 

Yeah, matches still got even numbers of players and when there are not enough fighters queing...

 

"Do something against people who afk bot to the high tier"

Ok, removed rewards for landing/starting and just standing next to each other as enemies.

"!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

"We want modern Jets with BVR"

Ok, here you got

"Maps are to small"

Ok, here you got bigger maps

"still doesn't work as I want"

Ok, what was your exception anyway?

 

The back and forth of weapon damage vs durability

Bomber gunner range for AI in RB and SB (yes, players wanted that)

More city maps for tanks

Smaller maps for tanks

(Yes, both something players cried for - and against...)

 

"We want new Prems for fast forwarding into High Tier"

Ok - here

"Players who use them are ****

You don't say...

 

"We want a pure Air battle mode in AB planes"
Ok, here is Airdom

"There is nothing to bomb"

Well - yeah? A pure Air fighting mode?

 

 

Should I point out helicopters when most nations on this planet are lacking mobile short range anti air for armored vehicle columns?

Not to speak about guided Air to Ground ammo.

All tankers are in love with them.

 

I just say players got a very bad track record with their wishes and regardless what Gaijin does, players will complain.

Even when their wishes are fullfilled, often enough the same players will cry about it, because they had a great idea they never thought through.

That is why I say be carefull with the wish just to throw more money and XP at the players. Because the same players already cry about the declining abilities of newer players.

What do you think fast forward progress will do?

 

Could go on with more. But you might get the picture already.

 

56 minutes ago, glock991 said:

 Idk man if you think the number of current negative steam reviews(mind you most of whom are players with 100s and 1000s of hours and most likely paying)are small compared to the active player base you might need to recheck that math

Math is Monthly players are in the millions.

 

56 minutes ago, glock991 said:

If throwing money(most aren’t even asking for that) at everyone would “hurt” your game badly maybe you should reevaluate your game design

The game design is PvP with High Tier stuff being more complicated to use, with more things to know and players as enemies who know all this stuff, who know the maps and who are simply experienced at the game.

Fast forwarding through the game into that point will bring you against frustrating better players even faster while you will learn even less on the way (not want to say that players learn a lot these days, for many brain seems to be afk most of the time).

 

So, what would your reevaluation of the game design here?

 

1 hour ago, IAMTRIGGERED said:

Not sure why you are running cover for a multi-million dollar cooperation.

I say be very carefull with your wishes.

Think things through from start to end, before you come up with a "solution".

When reading all those "got a great idea" stuff you will find all over the forum about everything.

Think that idea to the end. Not the US style with move fast, break things and fix later. But the way it is always said about germans - think it through to the end with all influences it will have.

 

Let me give you a basic example.

The usual request because of players close/above the own spawn in AB Air is a "no fly" zone of a certain type.

1. Bombers need to be in that place for bombing bases and the airfield.

Answer - Ok, then just for fighters

2. Some bombers make good fighters

3. For most bombers, if they are in the fighter no fly zone and that way missing any type of fighter support - they are a Pinata.

4. Any plane could simply flee into that zone, use it for climbing and coming back.

 

No fly zone is one of the worst Ideas you could ever implement.

 

Comes up every time again because "I got killed from above".

Edited May 23, 2023 by anyuser

[IAMTRIGGERED 1,087]

1 hour ago, anyuser said:

"Some maps are **** for tanks of certain ages/tiers"

Ok, now maps are bound to certain BR ranges.

"We want all maps everytime"

Ok, we turned if off again

"We don't want all/small/whatever maps at certain tiers"

*sigh*

 

"We want a restriction of bombers in RB Air battles"
Ok, done, 4 bombers and 4 attackers each

"I get matches with 4 bombers and very few fighters against the same number of fighters"

 

Yeah, matches still got even numbers of players and when there are not enough fighters queing...

 

"Do something against people who afk bot to the high tier"

Ok, removed rewards for landing/starting and just standing next to each other as enemies.

"!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

"We want modern Jets with BVR"

Ok, here you got

"Maps are to small"

Ok, here you got bigger maps

"still doesn't work as I want"

Ok, what was your exception anyway?

 

The back and forth of weapon damage vs durability

Bomber gunner range for AI in RB and SB (yes, players wanted that)

More city maps for tanks

Smaller maps for tanks

(Yes, both something players cried for - and against...)

 

"We want new Prems for fast forwarding into High Tier"

Ok - here

"Players who use them are ****

You don't say...

 

"We want a pure Air battle mode in AB planes"
Ok, here is Airdom

"There is nothing to bomb"

Well - yeah? A pure Air fighting mode?

 

 

Should I point out helicopters when most nations on this planet are lacking mobile short range anti air for armored vehicle columns?

Not to speak about guided Air to Ground ammo.

All tankers are in love with them.

 

I just say players got a very bad track record with their wishes and regardless what Gaijin does, players will complain.

Even when their wishes are fullfilled, often enough the same players will cry about it, because they had a great idea they never thought through.

That is why I say be carefull with the wish just to throw more money and XP at the players. Because the same players already cry about the declining abilities of newer players.

What do you think fast forward progress will do?

 

Could go on with more. But you might get the picture already.

 

Math is Monthly players are in the millions.

 

The game design is PvP with High Tier stuff being more complicated to use, with more things to know and players as enemies who know all this stuff, who know the maps and who are simply experienced at the game.

Fast forwarding through the game into that point will bring you against frustrating better players even faster while you will learn even less on the way (not want to say that players learn a lot these days, for many brain seems to be afk most of the time).

 

So, what would your reevaluation of the game design here?

 

I say be very carefull with your wishes.

Think things through from start to end, before you come up with a "solution".

When reading all those "got a great idea" stuff you will find all over the forum about everything.

Think that idea to the end. Not the US style with move fast, break things and fix later. But the way it is always said about germans - think it through to the end with all influences it will have.

 

Let me give you a basic example.

The usual request because of players close/above the own spawn in AB Air is a "no fly" zone of a certain type.

1. Bombers need to be in that place for bombing bases and the airfield.

Answer - Ok, then just for fighters

2. Some bombers make good fighters

3. For most bombers, if they are in the fighter no fly zone and that way missing any type of fighter support - they are a Pinata.

4. Any plane could simply flee into that zone, use it for climbing and coming back.

 

No fly zone is one of the worst Ideas you could ever implement.

 

Comes up every time again because "I got killed from above".

My brother in christ, keep your posts concise and don't just ramble on.

Think, write, send and not write, send, think.

 

You seem to also have missed the point entirely: My example was about how there was a vote on a change and then Gaijin proceeds to stealth nerf the entire RP/SL gain across the board.

 

Second example: Traction.

 

A few years back people complained about maps having ridiculously OP spots. 

Instead of adjusting maps, Gaijin decided to nerf traction across the board, which is the reason why tanks handle like go-karts in WT.

 

 

I am sure Gaijin had all the best intentions

 

[anyuser 5,136]

19 hours ago, IAMTRIGGERED said:

You seem to also have missed the point entirely: My example was about how there was a vote on a change and then Gaijin proceeds to stealth nerf the entire RP/SL gain across the board.

You missed, that my point was never the Eco in general...

[ESPORTS_READY 1]

23 hours ago, anyuser said:

"We want a restriction of bombers in RB Air battles"
Ok, done, 4 bombers and 4 attackers each

"I get matches with 4 bombers and very few fighters against the same number of fighters"

Problem people have- imbalance of ratio between fighters and bombers

Gaijin solution- maxing number per side, but not making ratio per side even

 

23 hours ago, anyuser said:

"Do something against people who afk bot to the high tier"

Ok, removed rewards for landing/starting and just standing next to each other as enemies.

"!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Problem people have- bots

Gaijin solution- remove thing that benefits regular players and bots, without actually removing bots from matches

23 hours ago, anyuser said:

"We want modern Jets with BVR"

Ok, here you got

"Maps are to small"

Ok, here you got bigger maps

"still doesn't work as I want"

Ok, what was your exception anyway?

Problem people have- jets in too small area with missles

Gaijin solution- this map is also for props without missles, enjoy the next 15 minutes

 

23 hours ago, anyuser said:

"We want new Prems for fast forwarding into High Tier"

Ok - here

"Players who use them are ****

You don't say...

Problem people have- not enough higher tier prems

Gaijin solution- make some premiums more worthwhile than others, then after a few months of OPness, nerf them. 

 

I swear, some people have no critical thoughts on *why* people have these problems, or their issues with the solutions. Gaijin is the monkeys paw 

 

but also

23 hours ago, anyuser said:

"Some maps are **** for tanks of certain ages/tiers"

Ok, now maps are bound to certain BR ranges.

"We want all maps everytime"

Ok, we turned if off again

"We don't want all/small/whatever maps at certain tiers"

*sigh*

problem- i dont like the map

Gaijin solution- introducing map banning and preferences for prem players, perhaps one of the few times players werent ***** over. 

[glock991 1,005]

13 hours ago, anyuser said:

You missed, that my point was never the Eco in general...

The eco was my main point but it’s kinda of telling every single point you listed gaijin half assed it to the point the newer option is just straight up worse or something completely different no one asked for, (the take on AFK was especially idiotic)never attempted to touch it again. People have reiterated better proper solutions to these problems since the forum was first created

 

Even worse the don’t play test the **** properly with proper feedback before implementing. This has got to be the most surface level take I’ve ever seen

Edited May 25, 2023 by glock991

[Hoefrik 103]

Copium

[A_Silbermann 4]

On 23/05/2023 at 14:17, anyuser said:

 

For me the biggest rant with WT is not even the economy. It's a gameplay which sucks more and more.

Just a simple example: for years, people complained on this forum that planes become a xxx in ground arcade battles. For years, Gajin was giving a stereotype answer: "planes are here for your own good, so stick your complaints where they hurt".

For me, this is the main reason (besides economy, impossibly slow grind, etc) why I am joining the community on this whole issue. It's much, much bigger than the economy.

 

Just to say, World of Warships is not that ideal game. And Wargaming messed up the game few times. And they were not that attentive to the playerbase either. But still, they are miles ahead than Gajin when it comes to listen to their core community.

Edited May 25, 2023 by A_Silbermann

[Amalric261 83]

5 hours ago, A_Silbermann said:

 

Just to say, World of Warships is not that ideal game. And Wargaming messed up the game few times. And they were not that attentive to the playerbase either. But still, they are miles ahead than Gajin when it comes to listen to their core community.

Really they listened to us players? Didn´t noticed that in all the years. CV rework, Submarines, adding a xxxx of OP russian ships, Nerfed the economy into the ground, even the premium cammos are gone. And i payed a shitton of money for my ships cammos US,Japan, Germany and UK plus all premium ships i bought. Free Grinding of the US BC debakle and so on. Oh and the treatment of all CCs was really nice.

[anyuser 5,136]

On 26/05/2023 at 02:48, Amalric261 said:

Really they listened to us players? 

Read the current QA.

They do.

 

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8279-qa-devteam-response-to-questions-from-the-youtube-community-and-content-creators-en

Q. For Air sim float plane spawns. Instead of spawning all the way back on the map and taking 25 mins to get to the battle, have it be able to spawn at any AF or spawn on the fleet with your float planes. Suggesting when spawning on any AF of course you spawn in the air, and if you spawn on your fleet have it spawn you on the water next to your carrier.

 

We’ll think about this one, the current system was chosen based on player requests. [...]

 

Q. Suggestion to allow phasing through teammates at the start of the match to prevent blocking, in the same way air realistic has after just taking off.

 

Bascially won't work because players are jerks.

 

Q. Please add more maps to the top tier Air RB (12.0 BR). Even smaller maps. Some maps are very rare.

 

Answer is basically players banning maps and players demanding certain maps.

 

Q. I’d like you to increase the chances of going into battle on a vehicle of maximum available for this battle BR. I once performed an experiment and found out that I got into battles using the highest BR vehicles only in 11-14% of cases. Sure, overcoming hardship is valuable, but not that often: it’s demoralizing.

 

Basically "Queues are made up by players"

 

Q. My biggest and worst problem in WT is maps in Ground RB is that I don't want to play small maps in top tier battles (things like Berlin - Finland - Cargo Port - Alaska - Small Fulda - Small Maginot Line... etc).

 

We also don’t like all of the maps at high ranks as well, although players’ opinions differ (Many players like Finland or Berlin at high ranks, but at the same time many also don’t)

(They monitor likes and dislikes - who would have thought...)

 

Q. Are there any plans to additionally reward the top 5 players at the end of the battle?

 

Concerns about players being jerks.

 

Q. Red Desert: Huge spaces with shots from covers on the top of rocks. Maybe you will remove this location from the rotation?

 

[...] Red Desert is also still in the top 5 most liked locations from our map “like” system.

(Want to add, tankers some tankers I know said about this question that they don't agree with that questions - politely said).

[Pacifica 15,968]

1 hour ago, anyuser said:

Read the current QA.

They do.

 

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8279-qa-devteam-response-to-questions-from-the-youtube-community-and-content-creators-en

Q. For Air sim float plane spawns. Instead of spawning all the way back on the map and taking 25 mins to get to the battle, have it be able to spawn at any AF or spawn on the fleet with your float planes. Suggesting when spawning on any AF of course you spawn in the air, and if you spawn on your fleet have it spawn you on the water next to your carrier.

 

We’ll think about this one, the current system was chosen based on player requests. [...]

 

Q. Suggestion to allow phasing through teammates at the start of the match to prevent blocking, in the same way air realistic has after just taking off.

 

Bascially won't work because players are jerks.

 

Q. Please add more maps to the top tier Air RB (12.0 BR). Even smaller maps. Some maps are very rare.

 

Answer is basically players banning maps and players demanding certain maps.

 

Q. I’d like you to increase the chances of going into battle on a vehicle of maximum available for this battle BR. I once performed an experiment and found out that I got into battles using the highest BR vehicles only in 11-14% of cases. Sure, overcoming hardship is valuable, but not that often: it’s demoralizing.

 

Basically "Queues are made up by players"

 

Q. My biggest and worst problem in WT is maps in Ground RB is that I don't want to play small maps in top tier battles (things like Berlin - Finland - Cargo Port - Alaska - Small Fulda - Small Maginot Line... etc).

 

We also don’t like all of the maps at high ranks as well, although players’ opinions differ (Many players like Finland or Berlin at high ranks, but at the same time many also don’t)

(They monitor likes and dislikes - who would have thought...)

 

Q. Are there any plans to additionally reward the top 5 players at the end of the battle?

 

Concerns about players being jerks.

 

Q. Red Desert: Huge spaces with shots from covers on the top of rocks. Maybe you will remove this location from the rotation?

 

[...] Red Desert is also still in the top 5 most liked locations from our map “like” system.

(Want to add, tankers some tankers I know said about this question that they don't agree with that questions - politely said).

 

"Concerns about players being jerks."

 

Gaijin will know if somethings can be taken advantage of... somethings will just generally be exploitable, like just giving the top 5 better rewards... you would see the same 5 people get the rewards each time, they would find a way to sabotage other players from getting wtihin the 1-5 group... and everyone else would just give up hope of ever reaching the top 5 because of the Elitists....

 

ive seen this in some other games in the past, you would have some kind of special rewards for First to Third place, and other players would just greif, PK and do what every they can to be first...  and you would see the same 3 guys each time, I would see whats going on and sabotage them back... and thats the other problem... you would get players taking the law into their own hands and really it would just create more chaos and would not be fun to play at that point.... 

[_J_ackal_ 284]

Another unjustifiably deleted post lol...

[PointyPuffin 5,065]

Wait...if only 20% of the players ever invested something in the game since 2012, then why is the map ban feature such a big deal? How many players are there with an active premium account?

 

If such a small number could ban several maps each, how would it affect overall matchmaking? Just add a disclaimer that using the ban feature could lead to a longer queue time for the player using it and it will be their own fault, if their queue time increases from 20 seconds to 60...

[anyuser 5,136]

15 minutes ago, PointyPuffin said:

Wait...if only 20% of the players ever invested something in the game since 2012, then why is the map ban feature such a big deal? How many players are there with an active premium account?

 

If such a small number could ban several maps each, how would it affect overall matchmaking? Just add a disclaimer that using the ban feature could lead to a longer queue time for the player using it and it will be their own fault, if their queue time increases from 20 seconds to 60...

I think you misunderstand the way round MM works.

FIRST the MM is gathering all players together.

THEN the MM is selecting the map from its available mappool, while taking in account the banned maps of the selected player group.

 

32 players in a game

20% of 32 is 6,4.

Already this could mean at last 6 different maps are being banned for a game for all 32 players.

In high tier I would say it is more likely for players to have prem. You have to take into account, that when they speak about 20% pay, they include _everyone_ who ever singed up for warthunder. And we know many players leave after a few games.

So it is very likely, that there are more possible mapbanns in higher tier for a team and you can be lucky enough that some people will ban the same map.

 

Getting back to the "why not 5" question, 5 x 6,4 = 32 banned maps. And we are getting close to our mappool...

 

And I would like to add, that currently more controversial maps are more likely to be banned. In other words the love/hate maps.

This does make it much more common to see the mediocre "meh" (indifferent to that one) maps.

 

44 minutes ago, Pacifica said:

Gaijin will know if somethings can be taken advantage of... somethings will just generally be exploitable, like just giving the top 5 better rewards... you would see the same 5 people get the rewards each time, they would find a way to sabotage other players from getting wtihin the 1-5 group... and everyone else would just give up hope of ever reaching the top 5 because of the Elitists....

I have seen this in warthunder wenn TK was still possible in Air AB. Then sometimes people were try to kill each other, when they challenged each other for top scorer reward.

Or they tried to kill someone who did not die yet, so that one wouldn't get the most kills + survival reward but just the most kill reward.

 

People are jerks.

44 minutes ago, Pacifica said:

you would get players taking the law into their own hands and really it would just create more chaos and would not be fun to play at that point.... 

Remember the SB bomber police?

Yeah - had that.

Edited May 27, 2023 by anyuser

[Amalric261 83]

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

Read the current QA.

They do.

 

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8279-qa-devteam-response-to-questions-from-the-youtube-community-and-content-creators-en

Q. For Air sim float plane spawns. Instead of spawning all the way back on the map and taking 25 mins to get to the battle, have it be able to spawn at any AF or spawn on the fleet with your float planes. Suggesting when spawning on any AF of course you spawn in the air, and if you spawn on your fleet have it spawn you on the water next to your carrier.

 

We’ll think about this one, the current system was chosen based on player requests. [...]

 

Q. Suggestion to allow phasing through teammates at the start of the match to prevent blocking, in the same way air realistic has after just taking off.

 

Bascially won't work because players are jerks.

 

Q. Please add more maps to the top tier Air RB (12.0 BR). Even smaller maps. Some maps are very rare.

 

Answer is basically players banning maps and players demanding certain maps.

 

Q. I’d like you to increase the chances of going into battle on a vehicle of maximum available for this battle BR. I once performed an experiment and found out that I got into battles using the highest BR vehicles only in 11-14% of cases. Sure, overcoming hardship is valuable, but not that often: it’s demoralizing.

 

Basically "Queues are made up by players"

 

Q. My biggest and worst problem in WT is maps in Ground RB is that I don't want to play small maps in top tier battles (things like Berlin - Finland - Cargo Port - Alaska - Small Fulda - Small Maginot Line... etc).

 

We also don’t like all of the maps at high ranks as well, although players’ opinions differ (Many players like Finland or Berlin at high ranks, but at the same time many also don’t)

(They monitor likes and dislikes - who would have thought...)

 

Q. Are there any plans to additionally reward the top 5 players at the end of the battle?

 

Concerns about players being jerks.

 

Q. Red Desert: Huge spaces with shots from covers on the top of rocks. Maybe you will remove this location from the rotation?

 

[...] Red Desert is also still in the top 5 most liked locations from our map “like” system.

(Want to add, tankers some tankers I know said about this question that they don't agree with that questions - politely said).

Reading and understanding is not your strongpoint? i don´t know what a post about another game company has to do with GJ?

[Uncle J Wick@live 407]

On 23/05/2023 at 19:55, anyuser said:

No, pointing out that the community got a very good track record of fullfilled wishes. Even getting mad when they got what they wanted, because it didn't worked out as they thought.

Pointing out, that the major problem of the game is not eco but players, because players decide this game.

Pointing out, that the number of steam reviews is low compared to the playerbase.

Pointing out, that just throwing money at everyone will hurt the game badly.

 

I am not sure if you ever thought about your positions from a neutral point of view. 

 

Wishes: If you try to analyse your various essays - they all have the same in common: They are actually not relevant as not a single proposal you mentioned has anything with the key element of this discussion: Decreasing economy and increasing pain 

 

Problem players: Yes and no. Yes, because it is a fact, an no because gaijin sets the parameters for PvP interactions. And they influence with their decisions who meets who at which level of experience and in what vehicles: Example rookie buy-in at top tier, etc...

 

Number of steam reviews vs actual player base: Your opinion is just a wild guess - without any reliable data from gaijin your claim is an assumption, and imho you are flat wrong. Imho we talk about 0.5 to 2.5 million players (which invested and are active) at best.

 

Just throwing money will hurt the game badly: Yes from a holistic pov. No, because economy is just the most obvious example of not listening. The game play is just a mess: Biased, unbalanced, unfair and in correlation to a 60$ prem vehicle a joke...

 

People are jerks: Fully agree.

 

Just to make this clear: I respect any deviating pov but imho all of your posts are not dealing with the core problems of wt.

 

[Delfigrey 537]

On 22/05/2023 at 21:48, Pope_Shizzle said:

I have to say that all sides of this discussion are toxic as hell. 

 

Gaijin and its arrogance, condescension, willful blindness to issues that are significantly important to the player base and an utter lack of interest in meaningful dialogue with a devoted player base isn't the kind of behavior that inspires people to buy in and support the game. You reap what you sow.

 

This community is toxic too.  Everything anyone ever has to say is bitching and whining.  Whaaa, Gaijin didn't implement my favorite vehicle.  OMFG, this tank is 0.3 BR too low, the game is unplayable!!!  Boo hoo, I can't just fail my way to top tier because there is actually a progression check in the form of the economy.  

 

I've been here since 2012.  Back then I was playing World of Tanks.  A clanmate suggested we check out this great new airplane game.  Back then this game didn't have ranks or battle ratings.  The only boats and planes were ai controlled fodder for player bombers.  It was just planes.  20 levels spanning biplanes to Me-262's.  There was no matchmaker.  Whoever was in queue, no matter what level they were, was who got put into the game.  I vividly remember my P-40 getting boom and zoomed by an Me-262.  Problems aside, one of the things that stood out to me about Gaijin, back at the beginning, was that it was everything that Wargaming wasn't.  There were two starter packs.  The US and the Japanese Pacific Campaigns.  There was a premium vehicle, some GE, premium time.  At a very reasonable price. We had double experience first battles of the day.  We had x2 weekends.  We even had some x5 events.  Even back then Wargaming was starting to gouge people.  Gaijin seemed different.  Premium vehicles cost a few hundred GE.  I think the most expensive premium back then was the La-5FN and it was like 1200 GE.  This community was everything that Wargaming's wasn't.  It was friendly and fun.  There was healthy interaction between Dev and player.  I remember being floored at how much information the community had and was willing to contribute...for free.  Helping to create accurate flight models (yes, that was a thing), etc. 

 

Now it's worse.  Way worse.  Both sides have contributed to this state of affairs.  I don't know who started it.  At this point, it doesn't matter.  No meaningful change can occur if both sides remain at each others throats.  Gaijin refuses to listen.  Community refuses to stop screaming.  When you've been unsuccessfully begging for attention for years, sometimes you have to act out to get someone's attention.  I think its obvious that the Steam reviews over the past few days did that.  Now that we have their attention, what are we going to do with it?  Keep ranting and raving?  Great, then they stick their fingers back in their ears and nothing changes.  Now that Gaijin has seen that the players of this game aren't powerless, are they going to try and have some good faith conversations?  Are the players going to calm down and communicate or just revel in the flames?  

 

My own experience is that I played for free for a few weeks and liked what I saw, so I invested.  I bought the 2 starter packs.  I did that because I was having fun.  Not because I was having trouble progressing.  It's been sad to see the shift from the fun economy to the frustration economy.  With 150,000 people logged in at peek hours every single day, even during the week, I imagine there is a ton of opportunity to make money that doesn't involving alienating the players Gaijin needs to keep the bills paid and profits coming in.    

 

Most of us want this game to be successful.  We love playing it.  Despite my frustrations, I love playing it.  I hope Gaijin loves making it.  I know they used to.  If its not successful financially, it goes away.  If people stop playing because they feel Gaijin is a bunch of predatory hacks, it goes away.  Both sides need each other, but we're too busy screaming at the guys with their fingers in their ears screaming muttering "La, La, La, La, I can't hear you, I can't hear you."  This feels like a Saturday night with a bunch of 7 year olds.

 

Where have all the adults gone?  

I have seen this happen with another game. Naval Action. It was a great Age of Sail type game in open beta with a great community, a relatively large player count even during off-peak hours, PvP that was actually fun, and port battles that actually encouraged line battle tactics. What happened to that game was World of Warships. Seeing the popularity of that game the Naval Action devs wanted to implement some elements from it into what was essentially an open world game. Port battles became about capturing circles in the water instead using historical tactics. Then came the premiums. Naval Action has premium ships some of which you can't capture. The whole point of the game before was that what ever you saw on the open sea you could capture. The point is that the developers started adding what they wanted and stopped listening to the players. They even started actively condescending to their players (like Gaijin is doing here). Now take a look at Naval Action. Sure, it can be fun with everyone sailing nothing but premium ships and ganking new players as soon as they leave the safe areas, but the community that made the game special early on is gone. The remainder is as toxic as the devs are. I see that same thing happening here.

[Pacifica 15,968]

 

7 hours ago, anyuser said:

Remember the SB bomber police?

Yeah - had that.

 

God.... I had only just forgotten all about that lol...............

 

8 hours ago, _J_ackal_ said:

Another unjustifiably deleted post lol...

 

None have been removed here................... yet....

 

9 minutes ago, LudwigSteiner said:

HAHA OP is like a high-school teacher.

 

You watch the bully for around 10 years, but then the nerdy kid hits back, you take the side of the bully and blame the nerd for getting punched in the face and yell at him that he shouldn't have fought back!

 

Seriously, your whole reasoning is just a failure.

 

This one will be the first hidden here, because quite frankly there is no need for it......................... ^ That is not criticism................