Tanks/Vehicles M.G. 151/15 und M.G. 151/20 "Drilling" auf m. S.P.W. (Sd Kfz. 251/21)

[mistomaxo 446]

prhaps the muzzle brake things could be an unlocked module, since they were added later

[RefrigerRaider 563]

prhaps the muzzle brake things could be an unlocked module, since they were added later

From the pictures, there were large abundance of those equally with and without. Maybe it should be included as an add on

[RefrigerRaider 563]

^

[RefrigerRaider 563]

^

[RefrigerRaider 563]

im gonna have to take a pause on this

Edited March 11, 2015 by RefrigerRaider

[mistomaxo 446]

if you bump it each day, youll wind up with pages filled with bumps, which would look a little sad. give it a little time! everyone thinks this vehicle looks quite fine.

 

any idea how long it took to reload these? 3x as long as mounts armed with just a single 20mm, perhaps?

[RefrigerRaider 563]

Well, judging from each box of ammunition, we can estimate that there be around 200-350 rounds per box, which is quite heavy.so 13-17 second reload is my best guess for a good loader. conservatively, probably 17-19 seconds

Edited March 1, 2015 by RefrigerRaider

[RefrigerRaider 563]

thread updated

[Der_Schuhmacher 5,879]

I want it

Nice research RefigerRaider

[RefrigerRaider 563]

I want it

Nice research RefigerRaider

my research is not yet finished. I have to determine how many rounds are in each box. judging from the size, id give a rough estimate of around 400 rounds. based on some pictures, i would assume that theres generally only 3 backup ammo boxes, adding the total to around 6 total box worth of ammo

 

also, dont forget to like

Edited March 11, 2015 by RefrigerRaider

[ezattilabatyi 195]

There's a huge potential in halftracks how I see it. This vehicle was suggested before (though with less information and pictures) alongside with other Sdkfz 250/251 vehicles in this thread, check it out:

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/197418-sdkfz-250skdfz-251-series-afvs/

[zuegma 1,546]

Nice amount of research, I was going to suggest this vehicle before, but you have found a lot more than I ever did.

 

In terms of tiering I'd say the 15mm version could go between the Gepard and Wirblewind possibly higher. The 20mm however is more of a challenge, its RoF means it could end up as a low tier 4/ high tier 3 and its ammunition would also reflect that. Even though its armour would be effectively non existent at that level I think its cannons would make up for that, that depends on the ammunition it would get though.

[RefrigerRaider 563]

Nice amount of research, I was going to suggest this vehicle before, but you have found a lot more than I ever did.

 

In terms of tiering I'd say the 15mm version could go between the Gepard and Wirblewind possibly higher. The 20mm however is more of a challenge, its RoF means it could end up as a low tier 4/ high tier 3 and its ammunition would also reflect that. Even though its armour would be effectively non existent at that level I think its cannons would make up for that, that depends on the ammunition it would get though.

Yes. Notice the size of each box of ammunition attached to the mantle. They're HUGE! A Gigantic box of 20mm munitions can weigh tons(not literally), probably a person cant carry all that easily. So reload speed can be very long, but thats compensated by its relatively enormous clip. Extra ammunitions are limited. the space inside a sdkfz is quite compact, and from models and some photos, the standard amount of backup ammunition is only 3 boxes plus 3 more already equipped to the guns.

 

Since it fires super fast ( combined rate of fire of ~2,000 per minute [each individual gun fires ~700 per minute]) and ammo is limited, one could assume that its effectiveness is limited to only firing small bursts and not made for sustained firing.

 

I would have to do more research. But in the mean time, dont forget to upvote this thread 

[ezattilabatyi 195]

- snip -

 

Since it fires super fast ( combined rate of fire of ~2,000 per minute [each individual gun fires ~700 per minute]) and ammo is limited, one could assume that its effectiveness is limited to only firing small bursts and not made for sustained firing.

 

It would be nice to know then if the guns could fire separately like on the Whirbelwind http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/206472-flakpanzer-iv-wirbelwind-diametral-firemode-gun-separation/

 

or in sequential mode like most of the SPAAs with 2 guns should work http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/213551-chain-fire-for-multi-gunned-vehicles-spaa/ and https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/177132-weapon-desynchronization/

 

Gun separation would be nice for finding the lead and then fully loading all 3 guns on the plane. Also your reload won't take place in the same time so you'll have still one or two guns operable while the really long reload takes place on the rest.

 

Well if this turret can't fire separately then attackers will often have a good chance to kick these SPAAs out of action while they are reloading, but heck, we'll manage.

 

Edit: added one more link

Edited March 12, 2015 by shirfy

[ezattilabatyi 195]

- removed double post, sorry -

Edited March 12, 2015 by shirfy

[zuegma 1,546]

Yes. Notice the size of each box of ammunition attached to the mantle. They're HUGE! A Gigantic box of 20mm munitions can weigh tons(not literally), probably a person cant carry all that easily. So reload speed can be very long, but thats compensated by its relatively enormous clip. Extra ammunitions are limited. the space inside a sdkfz is quite compact, and from models and some photos, the standard amount of backup ammunition is only 3 boxes plus 3 more already equipped to the guns.

 

Since it fires super fast ( combined rate of fire of ~2,000 per minute [each individual gun fires ~700 per minute]) and ammo is limited, one could assume that its effectiveness is limited to only firing small bursts and not made for sustained firing.

 

I would have to do more research. But in the mean time, dont forget to upvote this thread 

Yeah the amount of ammo would be limited but I what I meant was the ammunition types it would receive i.e. would it get the all the same ammo as the aircraft or just some of it?

[RefrigerRaider 563]

Yeah the amount of ammo would be limited but I what I meant was the ammunition types it would receive i.e. would it get the all the same ammo as the aircraft or just some of it?

sorry for the delay, their basically the same guns therefore they can fire the same shells. I believe the guns receive the same variety of belts for use.

Edited March 20, 2015 by RefrigerRaider

[RefrigerRaider 563]

updated more on information on the guns and ammo capacity.

[mistomaxo 446]

theres another german spaa suggestion up for something called a mobel wagon, i wonder which of these should come before the other

[iouaname 28]

Why not one of the half tracks modified to carry the 88 flak gun?

[ezattilabatyi 195]

Looking at the update about the ammo OP posted today, I have a suggestion to make the middle gun the "main gun" and the outer ones the secondaries. Thus, those who set up different keys to these type of cannons (like on the M3 Lee, M6a1 or Maus) can fire these guns independently. I would use the middle one for lead-finding and unleash all 3 guns once I'm sure my shots will hit.

[MandolinMagi 603]

Why not one of the half tracks modified to carry the 88 flak gun?

Because an 88mm can't engage aircraft at close range? An 88mm worked by being with a whole bunch of other 88mm guns and all firing in the same general direction, hoping that someone would be in that area when the shells got there.

 

I really don't get why people want heavy AA. Enjoy trying to hit stuff with 5-second reloads and slow traverse. A mobile 88mm is going to be more like a Tiger with better elevation than some super-AA unit. Your traverse rate will be terrible. 

[zuegma 1,546]

Because an 88mm can't engage aircraft at close range? An 88mm worked by being with a whole bunch of other 88mm guns and all firing in the same general direction, hoping that someone would be in that area when the shells got there.

 

I really don't get why people want heavy AA. Enjoy trying to hit stuff with 5-second reloads and slow traverse. A mobile 88mm is going to be more like a Tiger with better elevation than some super-AA unit. Your traverse rate will be terrible. 

 ^This, I can't see the fascination with heavy AA, its not like you get bombers fly at High altitude and even then you'd need more than one.

 

With Triple mount, it might be worth having the outer guns independant like shirfy said, or at the very least the outer guns having independent reloads (if all guns were binded to primary fire) so you wouldn't but stuck with a single gun for 250 rounds.

[sabaton_ 3,821]

Looks great, didn't have an idea that it existed!

And yes, the photos are very rare

[Hopit 4,416]

Because an 88mm can't engage aircraft at close range? An 88mm worked by being with a whole bunch of other 88mm guns and all firing in the same general direction, hoping that someone would be in that area when the shells got there.

 

I really don't get why people want heavy AA. Enjoy trying to hit stuff with 5-second reloads and slow traverse. A mobile 88mm is going to be more like a Tiger with better elevation than some super-AA unit. Your traverse rate will be terrible. 

 

 

 ^This, I can't see the fascination with heavy AA, its not like you get bombers fly at High altitude and even then you'd need more than one.

 

With Triple mount, it might be worth having the outer guns independant like shirfy said, or at the very least the outer guns having independent reloads (if all guns were binded to primary fire) so you wouldn't but stuck with a single gun for 250 rounds.

You don't actually think people want heavy AA against planes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And gib, I want that