Air Domination the most misunderstood game mode in War Thunder

[LeChance 926]

   I like Air Domination, and I've gotten good and bad games on it just as any other map/mode. Sure it requires a different style of play, but so do all other game types. I have had some really good, fun and exciting matches and done very well and also terrible games and had my hat handed to before as well.... nature of the game for the most part. I am not sure why so many lament this mode to such a degree. It is not overly complicated, and the primary goal is shooting down enemy planes which seems to be all that most players tend to try to do in every other match anyway.

  While in real life in war if you don't win you lose, usually, in a "game" setting this doesn't work as well. I am not fond of "if neither team caps both get a lose" in the time allotted. Because of wagers and other things there should always be a winner and loser as with all other modes. Just my opinion. I do not understand players that say they cannot play this mode because they have "an all bomber line up"..... why would you do that? I just do not see any reason to have more than a couple bombers in a line up for other modes anyway. But everyone plays differently I suppose.

  I too would like to see some type of "Game Selection Filter" in the future. Even if it did not strictly select the game types you got to play. Perhaps giving a player more of some type and less of others. As we all do play differently and have different and changing "goals", working for points or modifications or just the "grind" at times.

 

Air Dom is ok, just do the best you can with what you have available, that's what we all do most of the time anyway.

Only changes I would like to see is making one team a win and one team a lose somehow, and perhaps some nearby airfields for repairs for each side... add a new aspect perhaps(bombers could drop on repairing planes... Surprise!)

 

Good Luck

[Franigo 2,253]

The nature of the re spawn means you'll almost never have everyone below the cap. I'll need to time it from death to getting back into cap at some point. I'd guess maybe 40 seconds so enough time to cap, but not easily and typically only once there are few others trying to get in. Hence why getting a decisive advantage in the battle attrition is usually a key to success.

 

Firstly, you can cap while players respawn since - depending on plane speed and how they fly - you can cap before they reach the zone. Secondly, players diving on the furball in fighters only cross the cap zone for a very short time if at all. I can assure you that I have won games by capping while the whole enemy team simply ignored the cap zone to furball. I usually type "lol" in chat while their tickets bleed and I do that depressingly often.

[Ezz777 1,493]

Secondly, players diving on the furball in fighters only cross the cap zone for a very short time if at all.

This usually depends on how high an enemy is - if there is one. If they are a couple Ks up, then you can just hold altitude and plan your targets with relative impunity.

[Franigo 2,253]

This usually depends on how high an enemy is - if there is one. If they are a couple Ks up, then you can just hold altitude and plan your targets with relative impunity.

 

I was talking about respawning players in response to this claim of yours:

 

The nature of the re spawn means you'll almost never have everyone below the cap.

[Ezz777 1,493]

I was talking about respawning players in response to this claim of yours:

The point being, that with a respawn at 1.5km, and not far too fly to the zone, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to deny a fresh spawner. Beyond that all you need is someone below with some energy to duck back up and it's easy to put a single plane back in the zone. And that's all it takes. The key is the awareness of at least one on that team. Granted sometimes that can be in short supply in AB.

 

And of course that presumes that an entire team all decides to do the same thing... which well, let's just say that's fairly rare too.

 

I should also note, i've been mostly playing tier 3 and 4 AD where at least some people know how the mode works. So perhaps the meta is different in the lower tiers.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ezz777

[Franigo 2,253]

The point being, that with a respawn at 1.5km, and not far too fly to the zone, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to deny a fresh spawner. Beyond that all you need is someone below with some energy to duck back up and it's easy to put a single plane back in the zone. And that's all it takes. The key is the awareness of at least one on that team. Granted sometimes that can be in short supply in AB.

 

Please stop moving the goal posts. You said that respawning players will get into the zone, I said that this is not necessarily true. And I have won games like that, against full teams even, so I speak from actual experience.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Franigo

[trout0r 1,098]

Before Gaijin introduced "gremlins", a script that makes ground targets kill each other and/or self destruct, and before they severely reduced the number of ground targets & hence tickets that needed to be reduced in order to end the battle, there were many Ground Strike games that went right down to the wire with last minute comebacks and desperate attempts by the last bomber to reach the final pillbox before the enemy fighters ran him down. Sadly that's all gone now.

It's like fond childhood memories... Those games were epic, and I've never seen anyone "happy" with those changes. Gaijin also got rid of the really drawn out dom matches such as old mozdok which everyone I play with also loved (but I am sure the bomber spammers / 8 slots 8deaths within 5mins crowd were not fond of, so I won't pretend everyone loved them). I haven't had a really "gripping" game since old mozdok was replaced as the gremlins came well before that. Now it's more a case of "who's bomber spammers are better" or "which gremlin will trigger first" which is more frustrating than anything else.

[Franigo 2,253]

I haven't had a really "gripping" game since old mozdok was replaced as the gremlins came well before that.

 

Mozdok produced some epic back and forth gameplay now and then. And also some of the most one-sided, fastest Domination wins. Good times!

[Ezz777 1,493]

Please stop moving the goal posts. You said that respawning players will get into the zone, I said that this is not necessarily true. And I have won games like that, against full teams even, so I speak from actual experience.

Moving what goal posts? How so? I stated that the nature of respawn makes it difficult to prevent someone from getting into spawn at short notice. You then suggested that was slim if they dived straight in to the furball. Why would someone trying to prevent a cap dive straight into a furball?

[Franigo 2,253]

Moving what goal posts? How so? I stated that the nature of respawn makes it difficult to prevent someone from getting into spawn at short notice. You then suggested that was slim if they dived straight in to the furball. Why would someone trying to prevent a cap dive straight into a furball?

 

Why do you think I claimed that anyone would want to prevent that? Can you quote me saying anything like that?

 

This was your claim:

 

The nature of the re spawn means you'll almost never have everyone below the cap.

 

This is simply untrue. Partial caps happen all the time because of every red being below the zone, even the freshly spawned ones. And sometimes even full caps. Yes, the nature of the spawn system makes it difficult to actively prevent someone from entering the zone. But if they dive right into the furball (which many players do), they often either cross the zone very quickly or do not even enter it at all. I have won enough games facing full teams because not one of the whole red team bothered to fly into the cap zone.

[Ezz777 1,493]

Why do you think I claimed that anyone would want to prevent that? Can you quote me saying anything like that?

Ok, with you now. So basically you weren't talking about a player trying to prevent a cap, merely a fresh spawned plane not worried about getting capped out. Which as you say, their dive, especially if the primary engagement is on their side of the cap, may well only give them only a sliver of in zone time. Not sure that this really says a great deal tho. The fact still remains that preventing a cap when you have planes in the air is not difficult.

 

I have won enough games facing full teams because not one of the whole red team bothered to fly into the cap zone.

And they undoubtedly happen. I am trying to work out how often tho. I rarely see a cap get beyond half way before the latter half of battles. And each result yesterday went to the team that first won the primary engagement. But yes, pubbies lack awareness. As pointed out earlier, i suspect this may present more often in the lower tiers. But again, as pubbies learn the mode a little better, one would hope they'd be more aware of the goal and how easy it is to deny it for an enemy.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ezz777

[Ghond 569]

Air Domination is mostly won by spawn campers.

It is one of the worst ideas in this game, as you really have one mission, kill enemy planes.

 

Where in all other missions you have multiple ground targets, bases, ships, etc.

[Shanina 1,735]

Air Domination is mostly won by spawn campers.

Partly true, but that only happens when one side ignores the high ground or lose it to the enemy.

In either case...the right side won imho.

 

That's the same with ground strike...when one side clears the high sky from enemy fighters...and bombers...they win.

Spawn camping is the finale of a decided game.

 

Who to blame? the spawn campers or the team who can't be bothered to go high?

 

When I'm on the losing side, because the enemy did better...I bow my head an think they deserve the win...and I silently blame my own team (and myself for not being good enough) for go lawn mowing en masse. ..ignoring it completely.
 

[*GateNomes 1,770]

-snip-
 

Definitely good points in this post - they did a really cool event for RB Air awhile back where they literally had like over a hundred ground targets in the middle of the map for each team, to try making RB ground attack more worthwhile.  It's strange that they didn't do this for Arcade, because that would have been even cooler there honestly.  For any game mode too, who cares right? Ground targets for EVERYBODY! Haha.  And maybe make each target have a very slight impact to ticket counts like they did for the RB event.

[Ezz777 1,493]

Air Domination is mostly won by spawn campers.

To expand, it's mostly won by the team that wins the war of attrition. As you point out, spawn camping is one option to achieve that but there are obviously others.

 

In fact to help people understand the mode let's break it down: (noting this is aimed at helping people win the matches, not necessarily improve their K:D ratios)

 

Key element most seem to agree on is winning the war of attrition. The capping option rarely works before a decisive advantage has been achieved as it's easy to stop.

So how can that be achieved? Naturally this is about getting kills.

Where to get kills? Where the enemy is. This is where the high alt denial sometimes fails. It can be effective if they contest it, but doesn't really help your team much if they don't. It fails even harder if your team is getting cleaned up far below. You then have to shift so you can actually influence a battle.

Where is the enemy? Spawn is one spot as is the primary engagement.

Hence you need to also be able to influence as much as you can to help your team win the battle of attrition.

 

So the key question you need to ask yourself, is 'are you influencing the war of attrition with what you are doing?' If you aren't then you should be looking at ways that you can.

 

Hopefully this is making sense and helping people understand the mode. I swear some people just aren't getting it. If nothing else it should help people understand why sometimes they think they've had a good battle, yet their team lost.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Ezz777

[Possee 18]

There's not really much to understand, in every single game I played, the game ended when one of the 2 teams runs out of planes (or at least the large majority of the players in one of the teams). Just go kill the enemy planes and you'll eventually win, there's not much to it.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Possee

[Ezz777 1,493]

There's not really much to understand, in every single game I played, the game ended when the one of the 2 teams runs out of planes (or at least the large majority of the players in one of the teams). Just go kill the enemy planes and you'll eventually win, there's not much to it.

^^^

AD in a nutshell.

[LinkX 161]

To expand, it's mostly won by the team that wins the war of attrition. As you point out, spawn camping is one option to achieve that but there are obviously others.

 

In fact to help people understand the mode let's break it down: (noting this is aimed at helping people win the matches, not necessarily improve their K:D ratios)

 

Key element most seem to agree on is winning the war of attrition. The capping option rarely works as it's easy to stop.

So how can that be achieved? Naturally this is about getting kills.

Where to get kills? Where the enemy is. This is where the high alt denial sometimes fails. It can be effective if they contest it, but doesn't really help your team much if they don't. It fails even harder if your team is getting cleaned up far below. You then have to shift so you can actually influence a battle.

Where is the enemy? Spawn is one spot as is the primary engagement.

Hence you need to also be able to influence as much as you can to help your team win the battle of attrition.

 

So the key question you need to ask yourself, is 'are you influencing the war of attrition with what you are doing?' If you aren't then you should be looking at ways that you can.

 

Hopefully this is making sense and helping people understand the mode. I swear some people just aren't getting it. If nothing else it should help people understand why sometimes they think they've had a good battle, yet their team lost.

 

I disagree.  I win far more AD matches by capping than by killing the entire enemy team.  

[Franigo 2,253]

That's the same with ground strike...when one side clears the high sky from enemy fighters...and bombers...they win.

 

Oh, how I wish that were true. But in the realities of WT, there is only a slight correlation with winning altitude and winning the game. It is far, far to easy to kill GTs with any plane that has bombs strapped to it.

 

There's not really much to understand, in every single game I played, the game ended when one of the 2 teams runs out of planes (or at least the large majority of the players in one of the teams). Just go kill the enemy planes and you'll eventually win, there's not much to it.

 

That does not happen often to me. I cap the majority of times the reds run low on planes.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Franigo

[Ezz777 1,493]

I disagree.  I win far more AD matches by capping than by killing the entire enemy team.  

But had your team achieved a decisive advantage in the war of attrition first? I used the arbitrary bracket of a 10 kill advantage to classify whether it was decisive or not. So next cap win, take a screenshot of both teams kills and we can have a look whether there was a decisive advantage or not.

 

Also edited the tips to help clarify...

 

ie now reads "The capping option rarely works before a decisive advantage has been achieved as it's easy to stop."

Edited May 19, 2015 by Ezz777

[Shanina 1,735]

This was the last game I played last night. Since I had a pm convo with PrivateRico about AD, I made a screenshot of the result.



What I wrote to him about the game...
 

Note how the enemy kept coming with new planes...they just kept coming and coming.

At some point it looked like we lost it, because most of my team lost all their planes or they gave up trying.

But....the remaining players all went high and we attacked them from there. We still had some good planes...one clever guy kept his best plane...a 190A4 in reserve and I was still flying a good fighter (with another 3 in reserve).

Our altitude advantage and good planes made up for their numbers and so the tide turned and we won with still 5 of us in the air.

Was hard work from start to finish, but games like this are pretty awesome.

nn...way passed bedtime for me

I think it was an interesting game for several reasons.

 

-Don't think I ever played a game with so many enemy planes spawning. These guys didn't give up...none of them. Up to 9 flyouts...wow!

-It was a br 3.0/4.0 game with 4.3 max. All top 3 players...both sides were 3.3/3.0 players.

-Our side was outnumbered most part of the game, because some gave up or lost all their planes fairly soon.

-Our team had more hard hitters, but also more ineffective players.

-We had to fight hard to gain the high altitude advantage. Had to lure down some enemies and respawned with my J2M2 (great climber).

-I had the best kill death ratio...lol.

-No quitters...only 2 gave up early.

-We were constantly capping...this forced enemies to climb, but with about 4 of us high up, they stood no chance. A few scary moments though.

-Not all top players...both sides...made it till the end.

-This was a tense fight all the way.....a highly enjoyable game.

 

Maybe this is motivating for those who don't like AD...or have problems doing well there.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Shanina

[Badballie 1,219]

Partly true, but that only happens when one side ignores the high ground or lose it to the enemy.

In either case...the right side won imho.

 

That's the same with ground strike...when one side clears the high sky from enemy fighters...and bombers...they win.

Spawn camping is the finale of a decided game.

 

Who to blame? the spawn campers or the team who can't be bothered to go high?

 

When I'm on the losing side, because the enemy did better...I bow my head an think they deserve the win...and I silently blame my own team (and myself for not being good enough) for go lawn mowing en masse. ..ignoring it completely.
 

This is the reason I won't use more than 1 plane in Air domination, I will not spawn so close to a zone where the enemy already has a clear altitude advantage. Just another reason the mode needs to be seriously reworked, or accept that people will either not play or leave early.

[NotErnstUdet 99]

That game stat card looks just like a typical AD match. More than half the team has a negative K/D ratio, and have been eliminated.

 

Several times I have been the only one left up high, flying around at 4000m while both teams try to wipe eachother out. When my team has been destroyed, suddenly there's a dozen reds climbing up to me. On the occasions when i'm not alone upstairs, we seem to win.

 

Also, it's generally a struggle with a stock plane if the enemy contests altitude.

[Shanina 1,735]

True...you simply can't do it on your own :dntknw:

On the bright side, it looks like more players start to understand this...the downside...they can be on the enemy team also 8/s

I agree, stock planes are mostly kinda useless on AD

[Ezz777 1,493]

Maybe this is motivating for those who don't like AD...or have problems doing well there.

Looks like a rip snorter. (pardon my calc work if it is out) Looks like 79 to 58 (21 plane advantage) - so as you say, you had to wade thru a bucket load of fighters, but you got there eventually.

 

And yeah, i got a PM from him too... which he then deleted. Pro tip rico, the email notification contains the message you left so i see it regardless of if you then delete it. Lol.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Ezz777