German tanks RB once again

[aBrumz_suFFers 3,895]

4 hours ago, warrior412 said:

That you think a wise strategy like that is “dumb” evidences exactly the kind of lack of foresight that destroys so many German teams.

 

Because I only play Ger or I mainly play Ger? I don't think so. The truth is that it is actually a dumb strategy. If for example you have Tiger E  and Tiger II in a 6.7 battle I just don't see the reason to pick the Tiger E to fight T29's, T34's or T30's where you would probably not achieve much (even worse if it's a 7.3-7.7).

 

4 hours ago, warrior412 said:

If I had 77 battles in each of the Tigers, you’d say I was clubbing with them. There’s no satisfying you.

 

Only a fool or a liar can say that 76 battles in one tank are a lot.

 

4 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I’ve played 6.3s quite regularly now (spaded the T-44, nearly so with two other tanks now too) and have thus seen 7.3 as well.

OK 1% of your battles are with 6.3 tanks, good, but you have 0 vehicles with a BR higher than 6.3. Just admit it, your stats are open and anyone can see how you are desperately trying to avoid the truth.

http://thunderskill.com/en/stat/warrior412/vehicles/r#type=army&role=all&country=all Where are the 6.7 or higher vehicles?

 

4 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I have far more experience than one would need to have to comment on 5.3+—many, many hundreds (thousands probably now actually) of battles’ worth of experience.

You have around 1k which is more or less 5% of your total battles. In terms of math 5% isn't considered a lot where I live.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I point out the failings of buffons like that 0-3 Tiger II player.

I've seen player with M103, T29, T34, IS2, IS6, IS7, IS3, Jumbo, Maus, E100 and every other HT in game die without a kill. Big deal.

 

P.S. What is his nick, he might even be a better player than you, at least he gt out of the baby tiers unlike you.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

The quote was from Jan. 2018; you said the Tigers were impossible to play then

That quote has a completely different meaning from what you are saying. I advise to let someone at home help you translate that sentence, maybe they will understand and explain it to you properly since you do not comprehend what I am writing. Just an advice so that you avoid embarrassing yourself with your lack of comprehension (which is worrisome for a native English speaker).

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 -I use them and get ~3:1 K/D with ~60% WR

 

Cherrypicked stats. Play them now and post the results, let's  see how good you do in them.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

It’s strange to you that a noted deviation from the norm is a deviation?

 

To put it bluntly your stats aren't realistic. All your 5.7-6.0 vehicles prove it cannot just be a coincidence as all of of those vehicles don't even get close to a 3 K/D.

 

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Germany has quite possibly the best 5.7 lineup to work with, so the whole “suffering” bit does come off as a joke.

This is your personal preference. I personally prefer the US one, someone could prefer the soviet one with the IS-2, T34-85 and KV220 and the Panther.

[DaGreenBolt 1,403]

5 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Germany has quite possibly the best 5.7 lineup to work with, so the whole “suffering” bit does come off as a joke.

I honestly prefer the US and Russian 5.7 lineups as they feel way better than the germans especially since germany just got nerfed by ammo pens except for a few shells, and basically US got a major buff (coincidence?) and now most of their 5.7s are just as good or even better than the german or Russian 5.7s. US 5.7 is honestly what I would call the best 5.7 lineup as it has fast tanks with great reverse speeds (something germany lacks), have great guns (the 90mm utterly destroys the tiger 1s, and the 76mm is still good and its apcbc round got buffed possibly enabling it to pen an angled tiger), have some decent armor (jumbo, and t25), and last but not least the undeny godlike cas they have compared to other nations (only thing germany has that is equivalent to American cas is their bombers but has a higher sp than a p-47 with 10 rockets, 2 1000s, and 1 500 pound bombs). Russian 5.7 is combo of 85mm and 122mm where the is2 is basically the best 5.7br heavy tank in which it can tank but also deliver punishment, the 85mm is still good and usually nukes when it pens, both the heavy tanks and the medium tanks are quite mobile and can get to fast postions, they get access to heatfs at 5.3br, and has some forum of good cas ranging from their bombers, to their attackers (su6 and il10), but their fighter cas is really weak. And also both US and Russian tanks have the ability to take on an upteir more effectively compared to germany.

Edited February 20, 2019 by DaGreenBolt

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

Due to absurdly bad slope modifiers, the Pak40 can no longer pen an angled T-34 despite it being supposed to do just that, as it was built to kill T-34s. And this was the stronger than normal Pak40 from the Pakwagen, not the run of the mill Kwk40.

[warrior412 14,723]

6 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Because I only play Ger or I mainly play Ger? I don't think so. The truth is that it is actually a dumb strategy. If for example you have Tiger E  and Tiger II in a 6.7 battle I just don't see the reason to pick the Tiger E to fight T29's, T34's or T30's where you would probably not achieve much (even worse if it's a 7.3-7.7).

 

No, I mention Germany only because shortsightedness and an lack of will to continue on past the first spawn (loss) is a common problem for German teams around the relevant BR range.

 

People who do not consider rationing their vehicles or using them in a strategic manner are exactly the sort of people who help German teams lose.

 

6 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Only a fool or a liar can say that 76 battles in one tank are a lot.

 

76 battles is a lot. I'm not sure what you think the average is, but 76 battles is by no means low.

 

(In addition, you're also neglecting to remember that I played many additional matches in the Chronicles events which are not counted.)

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

OK 1% of your battles are with 6.3 tanks, good, but you have 0 vehicles with a BR higher than 6.3. Just admit it, your stats are open and anyone can see how you are desperately trying to avoid the truth.

http://thunderskill.com/en/stat/warrior412/vehicles/r#type=army&role=all&country=all Where are the 6.7 or higher vehicles?

 

 

Again, you're pretending there is an issue where there is not one. I said I have played all war time BRs and that is true. I have seen all the way to 7.3 and am quite accustomed to things between reserves and there.

 

As for "you have 0 vehicles...higher than 6.3," the nine American, nine German, eight Soviet and six British tanks from BRs 6.7-7.7 I have sitting around disagree. 32 is a lot more than 0.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

You have around 1k which is more or less 5% of your total battles. In terms of math 5% isn't considered a lot where I live.

 

You are only trying to pretend I have few battles because you cannot argue with what I have said.

 

If I had more battles, you'd say I was clubbing my foes.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I've seen player with M103, T29, T34, IS2, IS6, IS7, IS3, Jumbo, Maus, E100 and every other HT in game die without a kill. Big deal.

 

On its own, it's no big deal. However, when going 0-3 in top tier vehicles is commonplace (as it is), you have a problem.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

P.S. What is his nick, he might even be a better player than you

 

Lmao, I don't keep these things logged. If I wrote down the name of every buffoon that did poorly, I'd have a book thicker than the dictionary.

 

I just know that that sap passed me thrice with a King Tiger each time, yet failed to match my successes (2 kills iirc) in a near stock Panther G in a 6.7 match.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

at least he gt out of the baby tiers unlike you

 

Ah yes, such an accomplishment to rush to high tier.

 

You must love those guys at 9.0 with 12 battles played and an XM-1 in the garage--at least they got out of baby tiers!

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

That quote has a completely different meaning from what you are saying. I advise to let someone at home help you translate that sentence, maybe they will understand and explain it to you properly since you do not comprehend what I am writing. Just an advice so that you avoid embarrassing yourself with your lack of comprehension (which is worrisome for a native English speaker).

 

You said the Tiger was "impossible" to play in a matter consistent its legacy.

 

Glossing over the fact that much of the Tiger's lore is strictly mythical, your claim boiled down to this: you said the Tiger was not able to obtain a substantially positive exchange ratio and be a fearsome opponent for its foes.

 

That claim was (is) false and my results proved that.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Cherrypicked stats. Play them now and post the results, let's  see how good you do in them.

 

Ah yes, "cherrypicked." It doesn't support your claim, so it must be cherrypicked.

 

Next you'll be claiming I bribed the enemy teams in those 150 games, haha.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

To put it bluntly your stats aren't realistic. All your 5.7-6.0 vehicles prove it cannot just be a coincidence as all of of those vehicles don't even get close to a 3 K/D.

 

I cannot help the fact that bad teams end up dragging my averages down. If not for the poor conditions I've often been left in by my teams, I would have 3:1 K/Ds in most of my German tanks of this range.

 

7 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

This is your personal preference. I personally prefer the US one, someone could prefer the soviet one with the IS-2, T34-85 and KV220 and the Panther.

 

There are more 5.7 Germans than US or Soviets; therefore, you can construct a 5.7 BR lineup for Germany and have the advantage on numbers alone (nevermind their other merits).

[aBrumz_suFFers 3,895]

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

76 battles is a lot. I'm not sure what you think the average is, but 76 battles is by no means low.

76 battle is nothing and the stats are easy to manipulate.

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I have sitting around disagree

Sitting in your hangar =/= playing and using them in battle.

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

If I wrote down the name of every buffoon that did poorly, I'd have a book thicker than the dictionary.

Maybe he was having a bad day how can you be so sure he was 100% a terrible player? Wait, I know, you're assuming like always.

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Ah yes, such an accomplishment to rush to high tier.

Rushing? You have been playing for 6 years and still have no vehicles with registered battles above 6.3. You stopped playing German 5.7's almost a year ago and made no progress. I understand you are taking your time but it's taking you a geologic era to get out of the so called "baby tiers".

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

You must love those guys at 9.0 with 12 battles played and an XM-1 in the garage--at least they got out of baby tiers!

Again what if they are on their second or third account?

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

You are only trying to pretend I have few battles because you cannot argue with what I have said.

 

5% is a lot then?

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

You said the Tiger was "impossible" to play in a matter consistent its legacy.

 

Did you follow my advice and get that sentence read and translated to you by a family member? Apparently not. 

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

and be a fearsome opponent for its foes.

Yeah T29's T30's and T34's run away as soon as they see a Tiger E in front of them. Fearsome opponent indeed.

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Ah yes, "cherrypicked." It doesn't support your claim, so it must be cherrypicked.

Played during the period that was most favorable to Germans (as you claimed many times). 

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

would have 3:1 K/Ds in most of my German tanks of this range.

Yet you don't and by pure chance only when you played your Tiger E all your teams were full of veterans and top class players, right?

 

8 hours ago, warrior412 said:

There are more 5.7 Germans than US or Soviets; therefore, you can construct a 5.7 BR lineup for Germany and have the advantage on numbers alone (nevermind their other merits).

I play with 5 vehicles on every single lineup, I never bring more than two tanks/TD's, always bring at least one SPAA and two planes. What do I need 8 tanks for and realistically speaking who does? Taking an M36, a 76 Jumbo and a T25 is more than sufficient. 

 

Seems like other people agree with what I'm saying. You are underestimating other nations capabilities blinded by your hate for anything  that is Axis.

[warrior412 14,723]

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

76 battle is nothing and the stats are easy to manipulate.

 

As predicted, somehow battles that disprove the German inferiority theory are claimed to have been manipulated.
 

...or maybe the German inferiority complex is bunk.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Sitting in your hangar =/= playing and using them in battle.

 

You said I owned 0 vehicles above 6.3; your claim was discredited.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Maybe he was having a bad day how can you be so sure he was 100% a terrible player? Wait, I know, you're assuming like always.

 

Assumption? I saw what he did. It doesn't matter if he went 30:0 in the next game that I didn't see, he went 0:3 there and that is what I saw out of him.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Rushing? You have been playing for 6 years and still have no vehicles with registered battles above 6.3. You stopped playing German 5.7's almost a year ago and made no progress. I understand you are taking your time but it's taking you a geologic era to get out of the so called "baby tiers".

 

Lmao, no, spading tanks is not sitting in low tiers. It's getting things done. I do have to work for a living though, so I am not playing all the time.

 

As for German 5.7s, I still use them...but the thing is I'm working on 6.0s now. You know, like the Panther G I've been working on the past few nights. You're just making up nonsensical claims because you cannot argue with what I've said.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Again what if they are on their second or third account?

 

Ah yes, that's definitely common. Get a second account just to throw $50 at it, rather than having it on one main account..

 

Now that it's been pointed out that rushing to higher tier isn't exactly such a smart idea, you've been forced into this retreat...it's not an impressive nor compelling theory.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

5% is a lot then?

 

I have hundreds of battles played above 5.3.

 

You're moving the goalposts and trying to make this about me and my experience because you cannot argue with what I've said.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Did you follow my advice and get that sentence read and translated to you by a family member? Apparently not. 

 

Haha, no translation has ever been needed.

 

It's apparent that you're running away from your own statement. At the time you said the Tiger was impossible to play. Now that that's been disproven, you're claiming it was really a golden age when you said it was impossible to use. All that you've conveyed is that your word has no backing to it--you'll run away from what you said on a whim.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Yeah T29's T30's and T34's run away as soon as they see a Tiger E in front of them. Fearsome opponent indeed.

 

They won't feel so great taking an 88mm shell to the side.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Played during the period that was most favorable to Germans (as you claimed many times). 

 

According to you, I played at a time when they were "impossible" to play. That was your description, not mine.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Yet you don't and by pure chance only when you played your Tiger E all your teams were full of veterans and top class players, right?

 

Ah yes, you'd surely know about the team composition of matches a year ago. /s

 

The reality is that you've been caught making a bogus claim and now you're upset that I have called you out on it. You said the Tiger was "impossible" to use as a heavy; I used it as a heavy and did wonderfully. End of story.

 

3 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I play with 5 vehicles on every single lineup, I never bring more than two tanks/TD's, always bring at least one SPAA and two planes. What do I need 8 tanks for and realistically speaking who does? Taking an M36, a 76 Jumbo and a T25 is more than sufficient. 

 

More options = wider variety to be strong. The Germans have more 5.7s, so more chances to be top tier with the strongest vehicles in a 5.7 BR match. You are willfully ignoring this.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Seems like other people agree with what I'm saying. You are underestimating other nations capabilities blinded by your hate for anything  that is Axis. 

 

People agree with what I've said, as it's been proven correct--Germany has an excellent selection of tanks. The German inferiority complex is pushed by people seeking BR handouts for the Germans so that they may club.

As for the laughable claim that I hate Axis vehicles, what a joke. I play Germany alone more than any other nation. I don't hate the Axis nations, though I do dislike the constant pity parties people throw that result in poorer Axis teams. If only they'd stop feeling sorry for themselves and get good...

 

Nothing is a bigger problem for Germany than the German inferiority complex.

[coder-2010@psn 1,537]

16 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Nothing is a bigger problem for Germany than the German inferiority complex.

 

Still waiting for you to post your win rates in the Panther G you are spading...and not cherry picking. Just run through 10 or 20 battles and post the results. By the time you are done she will be all spaded too.

[aBrumz_suFFers 3,895]

20 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

As predicted, somehow battles that disprove the German inferiority theory are claimed to have been manipulated.

You fail to understand that I don' care about your 76 battles played during the best moment for Germans in the last 2 years, get over it. Just like I never said Tigers are bad but that it's the whole combination of things that add up and make Ger less competitive.

 

19 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

You said I owned 0 vehicles above 6.3; your claim was discredited.

 

No, this is what I said: "OK 1% of your battles are with 6.3 tanks, good, but you have 0 vehicles with a BR higher than 6.3".

My statement remains a fact.

 

21 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Assumption? I saw what he did.

Just like I can see many battles where you end up with 0 kills, big deal.

 

22 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Lmao, no, spading tanks is not sitting in low tiers

It takes you 7 years to spade tanks up to 6.7? Don't be ridiculous man.

 

24 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Get a second account just to throw $50 at it, rather than having it on one main account

What if he has a different account for every nation? it would make sense and I've known people who do this since the days of WoT.

 

 

25 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

I have hundreds of battles played above 5.3.

  You're moving the goalposts and trying to make this about me and my experience because you cannot argue with what I've said.

You are avoiding my questions. Is 5% of your overall battles a lot according to you? Yes or No is sufficient.

 

26 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

It's apparent that you're running away from your own statement. At the time you said the Tiger was impossible to play

OK, I'll just ignore any further reference to this as the meaning of that sentence is obviously too hard for you. if you prefer acting like a buffoon rather than an adult, I won't stop you.

 

28 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

They won't feel so great taking an 88mm shell to the side.

 

Now the fearsome Tiger needs to flank its enemies? Who would've guessed. But yeah, my point stands and you are proving it once again. Thanks.

 

29 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Ah yes, you'd surely know about the team composition of matches a year ago. /s

 

I'm asking you. Obviously your average German teammates must have been highly skilled to allow your Tiger to get those stats (the best stats any of your tanks have).

 

31 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

The Germans have more 5.7s, so more chances to be top tier with the strongest vehicles in a 5.7 BR match

Makes no sense.

 

32 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

More options = wider variety to be strong

I love to see someone who spawns all his vehicles in one battle and even better I would love to see someone bring so many.

 

34 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

People agree with what I've said,

This is what GreenBolt said a few hours ago: I honestly prefer the US and Russian 5.7 lineups as they feel way better than the germans.

 

34 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Germany has an excellent selection of tanks.

I never said otherwise. But nations like US or SU are just as equally excellent.

 

[tranquillium 553]

I am currently spading my US 5.7 tanks and find it quite easy. Most matches are sort of equally made up and fighting German tanks is funny because they are so easy to kill. Even Russian heavies sacrifice themselves one after the other to the now exellently performing US guns. No aim needed for the most targets. The stabilized Jumbo gun is overall superior to any other tanks gun I played (there are more factors than pure penetration values). 6.7 matches are the best. Just move like a headless chicken to the next cap, your 6.7 heavy buddies clear the way and attract the enemies fire. In caps the great mobility makes you again superior to all German tanks. Maybe you have to think a bit about tactical behavior when fighting against the russians and the French with their monster-guns, but usually they are bound in sniping-contests with heavies that can‘t really hide on the battlefield. Of course, these are only my impressions. From time to time I hop into a German 5.7 lineup and take the waffenträger into battle. I don‘t know how many games I won with Germany, but definitely less than playing US. Waffenträger really helps German teams because it can help to decide the sniping-contest, what will free bound tanks which then may focus on caps. My experience is, if Germany is doing very well at sniping within the first minutes, they have a higher chance to win. 

And I have to add something to this sort of funny dialogue. Anybody who says that mobility is a hindrance or over-exaggerated disqualifies for any further discussion about war (games). There are only two important factors in war: mobility and firepower. Everthing else either strengthens one of these factors or weakens them. This has eben like that 10.000 years ago, is the same today and most likey will be the same in 10.000 years.

[DaGreenBolt 1,403]

2 hours ago, warrior412 said:

People agree with what I've said, as it's been proven correct--Germany has an excellent selection of tanks. The German inferiority complex is pushed by people seeking BR handouts for the Germans so that they may club.

As for the laughable claim that I hate Axis vehicles, what a joke. I play Germany alone more than any other nation. I don't hate the Axis nations, though I do dislike the constant pity parties people throw that result in poorer Axis teams. If only they'd stop feeling sorry for themselves and get good...

 

Nothing is a bigger problem for Germany than the German inferiority complex.

I can really tell you for a fact that germany isn't your main nation or the nation you play the most, if it was I would see teir 5, teir 6 germans tanks which u don't have. And if you did play germany a lot as you say, you would have seen the amount of revenge bombers and suicide bombers, or a cap rushing tank who spawns in a plane. Again you blame german teams yet don't even bother to see what allies have at the same br, and what nations germany has to face (usually about 7/10 times germany vs all or germany and japan vs all). As of right now, the best 5.7 tanks are the waffentiger, panther A, and panther D.

And if you think german players need to get good, then I think u need to look at 5.7 to 7.7brs even more because its really clear the amount of anti-german gaijin has. Long 88 gets another 60 degree nerf, Tiger 105 stock shell was so bad they had to actually remove it to make the tiger 105 playable, the 128mm got nerf in penetration, also how basically the 37mm on german spa ap round is dead, while allies get a whole lot of buffs especially on the 105mm on the t29, t28, and t95, on the 120mm on the t34, the 76mm, the 90mm, the long 90mm, and the 75mm on the Americas, on the brits: the 76mm, 84mm, 57mm, and 94mm, on the French (a whole lot of buffs to the vehicles): 75mm, 90mm, and 100mm, Russia: the 45mm, 57mm, 76mm, long 85mm, 100mm, and 130mm. Japan got nerfed into oblivion, and when looking at all this, this is clearly "poor german teams" and not from the tanks it faces and how much fast vehicles germany has to face compared to how their vehicles were built. 

So in reality there is a bigger problem for germany, the amount of overtired tanks and heavy tanks with barely any fast vehicles compared to the amount of undertiered allied vehicles with a buttload of fast vehicles and godlike cas.

[warrior412 14,723]

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

You fail to understand that I don' care about your 76 battles played during the best moment for Germans in the last 2 years, get over it

 

I played the Tigers when you claimed them impossible to do well with; I did play them then and yielded excellent results. You disregard the results because they disprove your claim, not because the results are illegitimate.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Just like I never said Tigers are bad but that it's the whole combination of things that add up and make Ger less competitive. 

 

You said the Tigers could not be as effective as would be befitting (i.e. good exchange rate and survivability under fire). That was false.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

No, this is what I said: "OK 1% of your battles are with 6.3 tanks, good, but you have 0 vehicles with a BR higher than 6.3". 

My statement remains a fact.

 

Your statement remains an evasion of what you said originally. You were talking about ownership, not usage. You said I didn't own vehicles above 6.3--I do. You needn't backtrack on your word anymore than you already have--we can see what your quote said. By denying what's so obvious from readily visible quotes you're just destroying your credibility.

 

In addition, I must again note the irrelevance of this. I have seen 7.3 battles by way of 6.3 vehicles--anyone with WT experience ought to know about uptiers and match BR.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Just like I can see many battles where you end up with 0 kills, big deal.

 

Yeah...not many of those when I'm top tier. I'll bet you'll find even fewer where I go 0-3 with three top tier vehicles--give it a whirl if you'd like.

 

The problem with that guy is not that he was some sort of extraordinarily terrible player--on the contrary, it's the opposite--he was probably your average player. If you're at a point where it is par for the course for an 3 top tier vehicles to be lost for no successes while lower tier vehicles (and stock like mine) do better, you have got a serious issue going on. That, when seen across many players of a team, is how and why that team will lose.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

It takes you 7 years to spade tanks up to 6.7? Don't be ridiculous man.

 

Tanks have been around to play for 7 years? I've only played tanks in any quantity since late 2016--before that my games probably numbered in the dozens at the very highest.

 

As for my progress with spaded, I've done quite well. Up to Tier IV spaded in US, GER, RU and UK tanks without many stragglers nor a day of premium time.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

You are avoiding my questions. Is 5% of your overall battles a lot according to you? Yes or No is sufficient.

 

5% is unquestionably plenty when it translates to hundreds of battles. (There's also the fact that if I had more you'd say I was clubbing.)

 

As I said, you're only playing around with the numbers to confuse things, not do anything substantive.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

OK, I'll just ignore any further reference to this as the meaning of that sentence is obviously too hard for you. if you prefer acting like a buffoon rather than an adult, I won't stop you. 

 

I understood the sentence fully--I always have and I've shown that. You also understood the sences too, as you've chosen to recant (even if not admitting it) your claims about the Tiger now that they've been discredited.

 

There is no bad reflection on myself for having been objective and scientific in responding to your quote. As you have run away from your own claims, one must question their credibility (and any others you make). If you won't face, defend or acknowledge your claims, how can anyone else take them seriously?

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Now the fearsome Tiger needs to flank its enemies? Who would've guessed. But yeah, my point stands and you are proving it once again. Thanks.

 

You want the 5.7 Tiger I to go into a 6.7 match and be king?

 

You are willfully downplaying the Tiger's ferocity and deadliness at its home BR. In 5.7 matches, the Tiger can be dominant very easily. On uptiers it will of course have more competition.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I'm asking you. Obviously your average German teammates must have been highly skilled to allow your Tiger to get those stats (the best stats any of your tanks have).

 

Teams back then capped when the capture points were empty or held by the enemy. That's how you win and that's what the teams did.

 

Nowadays you will often find people camping perpetually, only to wonder how they lost on a Domination map. Capping is not something that should be require a high skill level, but apparently it does these days.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Makes no sense.

 

It makes perfect sense. Being able to outnumber your enemy deals you an advantage.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I love to see someone who spawns all his vehicles in one battle and even better I would love to see someone bring so many.

 

It is not at all uncommon for people to buy extra crew slots with GE.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

This is what GreenBolt said a few hours ago: I honestly prefer the US and Russian 5.7 lineups as they feel way better than the germans.

 

Preferences are lovely and all, but no other nation has the mixture Germany has at 5.7.

 

Armor and armament...superb for those who know how to use it. It's a game winning pair of capabilities.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I never said otherwise. But nations like US or SU are just as equally excellent.

 

With the Jumbo 76 now set to go to 6.0, the US will be much weaker at 5.7 than it is now. The numerical advantage the Germans have will also increase.

 

The idea of the nations being "equally excellent" falls apart with that.

 

 

8 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

I can really tell you for a fact that germany isn't your main nation or the nation you play the most, if it was I would see teir 5, teir 6 germans tanks which u don't have.

 

Three of my top five tanks played are German; my German match totals exceed other nations' by a substantial margin. I play all nations, but Germany is the one I've played the most.

 

As for what vehicles I have, I do have most German Tier Vs. I only lack two, the German M48 and the RakJpz 2, all others are researched and purchased awaiting their turn at spading.

 

8 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

And if you did play germany a lot as you say, you would have seen the amount of revenge bombers and suicide bombers, or a cap rushing tank who spawns in a plane. Again you blame german teams yet don't even bother to see what allies have at the same br, and what nations germany has to face (usually about 7/10 times germany vs all or germany and japan vs all).

 

Revenge bombers and suicide bombers do not account for many kills. Cap rushing tanks, though annoying, tend to stab their own teams in the back rather than hurt the enemy.

 

The worst case scenario really is to have a cap rusher on your side who is terrible with aircraft--they'll usually end up not only depriving the team of SP but also failing to do anything too.

 

8 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

As of right now, the best 5.7 tanks are the waffentiger, panther A, and panther D.

 

The Ersatz M10 is better than the Panther D, though the Panther D is still an excellent quasi-TD.

 

8 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

So in reality there is a bigger problem for germany, the amount of overtired tanks and heavy tanks with barely any fast vehicles compared to the amount of undertiered allied vehicles with a buttload of fast vehicles and godlike cas.

 

I'd love to hear about the "overtiered tanks" (what, Tiger Is to 5.3? Tiger II (H) to 6.3?) but I suspect I'll probably disagree with you in that assessment.

 

As for the CAS situation, German CAS is absolutely excellent. Anyone who thinks German CAS is bad does not understand its capabilities. In general, German CAS can be much more capable than Allied CAS if you understand how to use it.

 

For instance: the Bf 110G with its 37mm cannon carries 66 shells for that cannon. Those shells can maim and kill many tanks--some mortally in one shot--and you get 66 of them. The Me 410B-6/R3 and anything else with the MK 103 is similar. With as much cannon ammunition as these aircraft have, German CAS using cannons can target and harm more enemy tanks than Allied CAS reliant on bombs/rockets could hope to.

Edited February 21, 2019 by warrior412

[aBrumz_suFFers 3,895]

Ignoring all the useless spamming which I don't want to repeat:

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I have seen 7.3 battles by way of 6.3 vehicles--anyone with WT experience ought to know about uptiers and match BR.

That's nice, but the fact remains that you have ZERO vehicles higher than 6.3. This was my initial point and it stands.

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I've only played tanks in any quantity since late 2016--before that my games probably numbered in the dozens at the very highest.

3 years and you haven't even touched one 6.7 yet. It still remains a pathetic achievement and I don't buy the spading card. 

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

The problem with that guy is not that he was some sort of extraordinarily terrible player--on the contrary, it's the opposite--he was probably your average player.

An average player that probably plays all nations and does it averagely, no surprise and no Tiger II syndrome or whatever. Even the best players play badly sometimes so it's really surprising that you even pay so much attention to this specific player. 

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Teams back then capped when the capture points were empty or held by the enemy. That's how you win and that's what the teams did.

And why did they do this only when you played the Tiger and not when you played the Panthers or other 5.7? This is what I'm trying to understand from you.

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

With the Jumbo 76 now set to go to 6.0, the US will be much weaker at 5.7 than it is now.

First of all it's not decided so you are just rushing to conclusions. Plus I don't care what will happen in the future as I care what happens now and today the US lineup at 5.7 remains superior (for me).

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

It is not at all uncommon for people to buy extra crew slots with GE.

 

I would love to see someone bring two Tiger I's, three Panthers and a Waffentrager in a 5.7 lineup and spawn them all.

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Preferences are lovely and all, but no other nation has the mixture Germany has at 5.7.

 

Germany has three classes at 5.7, HT, med and TD, US has the same, SU has the same. It has a higher number of vehicles but they aren't very varied.

 

7 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Armor and armament...superb for those who know how to use it. It's a game winning pair of capabilities.

 

Too bad you only had an extraordinary success in a few of those vehicles. 

[warrior412 14,723]

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

That's nice, but the fact remains that you have ZERO vehicles higher than 6.3. This was my initial point and it stands.

 

I have over a dozen tanks far above 6.3--which was the original topic. Your initial point was wrong and doubling down hasn't helped you.

 

All you've shown is that you'll pretend you said something else when your claims are proven wrong. That's hardly something to boast about.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

3 years and you haven't even touched one 6.7 yet. It still remains a pathetic achievement and I don't buy the spading card. 

 

Being thorough is far from admirable--it's given me stronger lineups than others and greater insight than other people who are not so well rounded. You don't see me screeching about "biased communist tanks" because I have used the Soviet tanks and understand how the actually work.

 

Anyone with eyes can see that I've spaded most of my tanks (aircraft too). I'm an experienced tanker who knows the tanks well.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

An average player that probably plays all nations and does it averagely, no surprise and no Tiger II syndrome or whatever. Even the best players play badly sometimes so it's really surprising that you even pay so much attention to this specific player. 

 

Yeah...no. Going 0-3 with the KTs is not average--remember those K/D statistics you brought up not too long ago? 

 

As with most premiums, the Tiger II SLA attracts an inordinately high number of buffoons who have waded in far deeper than they ought to have. Even the regular Tiger IIs suffer from this too, as people think back to documentaries and other references that stir lore around the tank.

 

People have bad days, but loss rates like that are quite bad. If those are commonplace, something is wrong.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

And why did they do this only when you played the Tiger and not when you played the Panthers or other 5.7? This is what I'm trying to understand from you.

 

I did not only do that when in the Tiger, I frequently capture points with my Panthers too--the problem is being given a team that is a sack of potatoes precludes success. One guy trying to work the capture points cannot do everything.

 

If you want to look at that match with that specific Tiger II player, I did pursue the caps after his deaths. I had triumphed over two Allied tanks (one I don't remember and the other was the TD Lorraine) in my near stock Panther G. The only problem with that was by the time I was closing in on the A cap, my team had perhaps 3 or 4 players versus the 13 or 14 enemies. I was badly outnumbered because the German team had failed, so I could not do anything.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

First of all it's not decided so you are just rushing to conclusions. Plus I don't care what will happen in the future as I care what happens now and today the US lineup at 5.7 remains superior (for me).

 

The fact is the strength of the US 5.7 lineup is waning. When the Jumbo is gone, there will be little armor to speak of there (the T25 only) and it's a medium. The US will be reliant on glass cannons like the M18 and M36, which cannot survive fire in brawls.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I would love to see someone bring two Tiger I's, three Panthers and a Waffentrager in a 5.7 lineup and spawn them all.

 

Someone with the slots to do that surely has done that. In general it's not necessary though. any of these vehicles is highly able (though the WT does come with baggage) and can be fine to play throughout a match if you play it right.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Germany has three classes at 5.7, HT, med and TD, US has the same, SU has the same. It has a higher number of vehicles but they aren't very varied.

 

The US' heavy is on its way out of 5.7 and again, the Germans have more 5.7s overall. The Soviets are in a similar boat with, what, three 5.7s? Quantity is a substantial difference.

 

4 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Too bad you only had an extraordinary success in a few of those vehicles. 

 

In practice, I've had many more excellent games than the averages let on. Unfortunately, I've also had many letdown games where the German team collapses, preventing me from doing as well as I normally would.

[aBrumz_suFFers 3,895]

44 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

I have over a dozen tanks far above 6.3--which was the original topic.  

 

This is what I said: "Your highest BR vehicle is 6.3. I doubt you fully understand".

As you see the topic is simple, you have zero battles played with anything above 6.3 and your stats prove exactly that. End of story.

48 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

. I'm an experienced tanker who knows the tanks well.

I did the same and I started playing after you.

 

50 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

Yeah...no. Going 0-3 with the KTs is not average--remember those K/D statistics you brought up not too long ago? 

Ii never said it's average but that it can simply happen, even to above average players. Your argument is pointless as you are trying to generalize that that is what happens in German teams basing off the performance of one random player in one battle. Plus I have to ask you, how does one spawn 3 HT's in a row without having accomplished anything in battle?

 

54 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

As with most premiums, the Tiger II SLA attracts an inordinately high number of buffoons

Which stats prove this? All I see is a vehicle performing rather well despite facing better suited enemies.

 

58 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

I did not only do that when in the Tiger,

But your results are much better with it and it cannot only depend on you. How do you explain a Waffentrager sitting at 47% or Panther G at 52% and a Tiger H1 at 63%. And what about your US 5.7s all sitting above 60% and Jumbo at 68%? No word on those poor vehicles that cannot compete against the OP Germans? 

 

1 hour ago, warrior412 said:

When the Jumbo is gone, there will be little armor to speak of there (the T25 only) and it's a medium.

Armor isn't that important anyways and it's not as if the enemy has some super heavy behemoths at those BR's.

 

1 hour ago, warrior412 said:

Quantity is a substantial difference.

No it isn't. It depends on how you play your vehicles. One can even spawn 6 times and die all six times meanwhile a good player can spawn 2 times with 2 different tanks and have a major impact. The fact Germany has more 5.7's (which are basically copies that play the same) isn't an advantage as US can bring an M18 which remains competitive, they can bring a 76 Sherman, soviets can bring the T35-85 at 5.3 (basically identical to the 5.7 one), they can bring IS-1. I repeat, I have rarely seen the need for players to spawn more than 4-5 times and most of the times if you die so much you probably won't have enough SP to spawn in a vehicle from the same class so many times.

 

1 hour ago, warrior412 said:

I've also had many letdown games where the German team collapses, preventing me from doing as well as I normally would.

If you are part of that team you failed too. Otherwise I just think you're a parasite that let's the others do the work and you only steal kills (like some do).

[DaGreenBolt 1,403]

16 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Three of my top five tanks played are German; my German match totals exceed other nations' by a substantial margin. I play all nations, but Germany is the one I've played the most.

 

As for what vehicles I have, I do have most German Tier Vs. I only lack two, the German M48 and the RakJpz 2, all others are researched and purchased awaiting their turn at spading.

You top three tanks are low teirs, not even a rank 4 or 5.7br+ vehicle

 

17 hours ago, warrior412 said:

Revenge bombers and suicide bombers do not account for many kills. Cap rushing tanks, though annoying, tend to stab their own teams in the back rather than hurt the enemy.

 

The worst case scenario really is to have a cap rusher on your side who is terrible with aircraft--they'll usually end up not only depriving the team of SP but also failing to do anything too.

Usually cap rushers help their own team out and just destroy any heavily armored vehicle or any vehicle that's near an objective, and is really unfun to play against, also rarely do germans have cap-rushers compared to allies.

 

17 hours ago, warrior412 said:

The Ersatz M10 is better than the Panther D, though the Panther D is still an excellent quasi-TD.

It's an event vehicle and not many have it so, people that do have are lucky, I don't count it on my list as its not accessible to everyone due to that its an event vehicle.

17 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I'd love to hear about the "overtiered tanks" (what, Tiger Is to 5.3? Tiger II (H) to 6.3?) but I suspect I'll probably disagree with you in that assessment.

  

As for the CAS situation, German CAS is absolutely excellent. Anyone who thinks German CAS is bad does not understand its capabilities. In general, German CAS can be much more capable than Allied CAS if you understand how to use it.

 

For instance: the Bf 110G with its 37mm cannon carries 66 shells for that cannon. Those shells can maim and kill many tanks--some mortally in one shot--and you get 66 of them. The Me 410B-6/R3 and anything else with the MK 103 is similar. With as much cannon ammunition as these aircraft have, German CAS using cannons can target and harm more enemy tanks than Allied CAS reliant on bombs/rockets could hope to.

Tiger 1h should be a 5.3 vehicle, is1 is at 5.3 why not the tiger h1 (Tiger E is clearly a 5.7br vehicle with improved armor and I believe a better engines makes its 5.7)? Also the tiger 105 is at 7.0 while t29, and t34 are at a lower br and basically better in every way, also Maus at 7.7 which is basically a 6.7 to 7.0 vehicle (depends if the t29 and t34, and t28 don't go up, then 6.7br would be balanced), jpz 4-5 at 7.0 while worse than the ru 251 and the American 6.7 light tanks, jadgtiger where its worse than the t28 and t95, and now the American t34 and t29, t28, and t95 can pen its mantle with its regular shells, it would be balanced at 6.3br especially with the ammo nerf it got. Im debating if the br of the tiger 2p and the tiger 2h as the second 60 degree nerf it got from the new pen values really hurts the vehicles effectiveness and would need to do more research in order to see if it's still capable at its br, and currently any upteir its gets makes it an easy kill especially since most tanks are armored and sloped (also now the second 60 degree pen nerf made it so that a cent mk 3 has a 70 to 80 percent chance of bouncing a long 88 in the ufp.)

 

German Cas is only equivalent to America through its bombers, and a few heavy fighters like the bf110. me 410 b6/r3 isn't really effective u need to get in close to deal a lot of damage and it can do that thxs to its poor elevators, ta 152 c3 only has 1 mk 103, and only has 90 rounds in it. Me 262 50mm is an okay cas, and needs multiple runs to kill a tank in it, but is vulnerable to fighters as the 50mm isn't good at taking out air targets. Allies have much better cas as they have 4 different p-47 varients with 2 1000s, 1 500, and 10 rockets, ad2 with 2 1000s, 1 2000, and 12 rockets, ad4 same loadout as the ad2, but can have 56 hydras, p-51 D5, d10, and H with 2 1000s and 6 rockets, F4u-7 with 112 Sneb rockets, F3D-1 with a Varity of loadout, B57s, Canberras, Fj4b, f100, and f84s.  

As you can see way more options the allies can take out compared to germany, and most can be fighters compared to germany with really only 1 capable fighter which is the ta 152 c3. I know for a fact that no one is really going to head on a bf110 or me 410 b6/r3, and both are easily out climbed and outmaneuvered. 

I would love to see the unnerf of the ho 229s hvap belt, where 3/4 or 3/5 are hvap and the rest are api, as it would give germany a capable fighter and ground attacker and either way it costs more than to spawn a bomber.

[MagicalMethod 1,768]

Not sure why are you even bothering with warrior... 

I believe he only comes to "pro German" threads only to say "no.. Yadda Yadda tiger syndrome Yadda Yadda German players are bad... All of them... Only me in my 70+ games in tiger (or whatever it was) am supreme to all ye German plebs"

 

Just ignore him... 

On topic. With the latest changes to pen values there are some German vehicles which could get a downtier... I mean.. The SA50 can pen the front turret of a KTH at 500 meters... And that thing is a 4.7.

 

We shall see what changes will gaijilla bring to us. Meanwhile I'll be clubbing the ef out of German teams in my T29 that has only 250mm of pen on its Aphe... Because balance bich... 

[DaGreenBolt 1,403]

2 hours ago, MagicalMethod said:

Not sure why are you even bothering with warrior... 

I believe he only comes to "pro German" threads only to say "no.. Yadda Yadda tiger syndrome Yadda Yadda German players are bad... All of them... Only me in my 70+ games in tiger (or whatever it was) am supreme to all ye German plebs"

 

Just ignore him... 

On topic. With the latest changes to pen values there are some German vehicles which could get a downtier... I mean.. The SA50 can pen the front turret of a KTH at 500 meters... And that thing is a 4.7.

 

We shall see what changes will gaijilla bring to us. Meanwhile I'll be clubbing the ef out of German teams in my T29 that has only 250mm of pen on its Aphe... Because balance bich... 

Im basically doing the same, im spamming out both my American 6.7 lineup and 7.0 lineup, cause how how op those lineups are against the germans, I feel bad for them, but after the pen changes, there's no incentive to play germany past 4.7br. The other sweet spot for germany is 8.7br but that will die soon once the mbt 70, and chieftain mk 10 go down to 9.0.

[warrior412 14,723]

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

This is what I said: "Your highest BR vehicle is 6.3. I doubt you fully understand".

As you see the topic is simple, you have zero battles played with anything above 6.3 and your stats prove exactly that. End of story.

 

You claimed I did not own vehicles above 6.3. I own more than a dozen. The issue here is indeed simple--your assumption was wrong, just accept it.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

I did the same and I started playing after you.

 

It is doubtful you've spaded as many tanks as I have. So no, you haven't done the same as I have.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Ii never said it's average but that it can simply happen, even to above average players. Your argument is pointless as you are trying to generalize that that is what happens in German teams basing off the performance of one random player in one battle.

 

It's not a generalization, it's an observation based on games played. It is very common for Tiger II players to lose their top tier heavies very quickly and without scoring even when in 6.7 matches.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Plus I have to ask you, how does one spawn 3 HT's in a row without having accomplished anything in battle?

 

The guy was murdered by AP wielding enemies--he undoubtedly got SP from the hits that he took as he was being killed.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Which stats prove this? All I see is a vehicle performing rather well despite facing better suited enemies.

 

You're not aware of the gravitational pull premiums have on people trying to get way too far way too fast? Does the XM-1 ring a bell? Things like that?

 

People rush to places where they end up in way over their heads all the time and they do that by purchasing premiums--the Tiger II SLA is one such vehicle that offers that potential.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

But your results are much better with it and it cannot only depend on you. How do you explain a Waffentrager sitting at 47% or Panther G at 52% and a Tiger H1 at 63%.

 

I have already explained this many times. However, I will do it yet again:

• Most of my usage of the Waffentrager usage predated the SP cost reductions. A TD's costs then would be high enough to preclude spawning in any other vehicle except for an SPAA if you lost the Waffentrager early game without having gained SP. As the Waffentrager's depression forced it to crest hills to target things often times and the vehicle was vulnerable to artillery strikes, early game deaths were not unheard of. Without my help, the chances of a German victory in those matches were the WT was lost were lower...and the results have born that out. Amusingly, you're focusing in on 48% as though it's some sort of terrible result--50% is the balancing point, so being within 2% of that means the WT is about where in belongs based on my showing.
• The Panther G is an ongoing project; thus far results have been mixed. A few nights back the results were 3 victories in 5 matches (I specifically recorded that tally per @*coder-2010's inquiry). What results will be as I continue on with it I do not know.

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

And what about your US 5.7s all sitting above 60% and Jumbo at 68%? No word on those poor vehicles that cannot compete against the OP Germans?  

 

American players regularly capture points--which is how you win matches. The Americans' task isn't made harder when German teams obliviously present their sides to the 76mms either.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

Armor isn't that important anyways and it's not as if the enemy has some super heavy behemoths at those BR's.

 

The Americans will certainly have to pioneer ways to work without armor now that the Jumbos and T20 are being uptiered.

 

10 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

No it isn't. It depends on how you play your vehicles. One can even spawn 6 times and die all six times meanwhile a good player can spawn 2 times with 2 different tanks and have a major impact. The fact Germany has more 5.7's (which are basically copies that play the same) isn't an advantage as US can bring an M18 which remains competitive, they can bring a 76 Sherman, soviets can bring the T35-85 at 5.3 (basically identical to the 5.7 one), they can bring IS-1. I repeat, I have rarely seen the need for players to spawn more than 4-5 times and most of the times if you die so much you probably won't have enough SP to spawn in a vehicle from the same class so many times.

 

Though you're denying the advantage that many fallback vehicles present for Germany, your premise that player actions are what determine results is correct and I agree with it.

 

11 hours ago, LandKreuzer_89 said:

If you are part of that team you failed too. Otherwise I just think you're a parasite that let's the others do the work and you only steal kills (like some do).

 

Being top of the board with the most kills hardly signals failure. I may be part of the team, but I'm no miracle worker. When parts of the team don't pull their weight, those that did are blameless.

 

 

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

You top three tanks are low teirs, not even a rank 4 or 5.7br+ vehicle

 

That will likely change as I progress; as it is, rank has no relevance to usage--I've used German vehicles more than any other single nation's.

 

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

Usually cap rushers help their own team out and just destroy any heavily armored vehicle or any vehicle that's near an objective, and is really unfun to play against, also rarely do germans have cap-rushers compared to allies.

 

I wish those guys were effective--at least there'd be something positive associated with them after they leave their teammates behind.

 

Unfortunately, cap rushers are usually as incompetent as they are selfish and end up doing nothing besides stabbing their teammates in the back.

 

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

It's an event vehicle and not many have it so, people that do have are lucky, I don't count it on my list as its not accessible to everyone due to that its an event vehicle.

 

I'm not sure how rare it is (considering how many I see, it seems fairly common), but you are correct that it is not obtainable in the traditional sense. I stand by my assessment of it however.

 

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

Tiger 1h should be a 5.3 vehicle, is1 is at 5.3 why not the tiger h1 (Tiger E is clearly a 5.7br vehicle with improved armor and I believe a better engines makes its 5.7)?

 

Having played both, I would say the IS-1's LFP and the tremendous vulnerability that presents to the IS chassis precludes putting both at 5.3; the IS-1's turret face is also less resilient.

 

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

German Cas is only equivalent to America through its bombers, and a few heavy fighters like the bf110. me 410 b6/r3 isn't really effective u need to get in close to deal a lot of damage and it can do that thxs to its poor elevators, ta 152 c3 only has 1 mk 103, and only has 90 rounds in it. Me 262 50mm is an okay cas, and needs multiple runs to kill a tank in it, but is vulnerable to fighters as the 50mm isn't good at taking out air targets. Allies have much better cas as they have 4 different p-47 varients with 2 1000s, 1 500, and 10 rockets, ad2 with 2 1000s, 1 2000, and 12 rockets, ad4 same loadout as the ad2, but can have 56 hydras, p-51 D5, d10, and H with 2 1000s and 6 rockets, F4u-7 with 112 Sneb rockets, F3D-1 with a Varity of loadout, B57s, Canberras, Fj4b, f100, and f84s.  

 

I am not sure why you would think the Me 410 has poor elevators (I commonly use it to fight single engine aircraft); as for the point at large, cannons allow you more potential attacks than most all of the listed Allied aircraft. Potentially any 30/37mm shell can spark a fire on most any conceivable tank and three fires means death.

 

With that in mind, the strength of German CAS becomes clear.

 

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

As you can see way more options the allies can take out compared to germany, and most can be fighters compared to germany with really only 1 capable fighter which is the ta 152 c3. I know for a fact that no one is really going to head on a bf110 or me 410 b6/r3, and both are easily out climbed and outmaneuvered.  

 

Having played the Bf 110s and Me 410s extensively, I can tell you their maneuverability is very underrated. Their abilities are nearly on par with a long list of adversary single engine fighters.

 

 

6 hours ago, MagicalMethod said:

Not sure why are you even bothering with warrior... 

I believe he only comes to "pro German" threads only to say "no.. Yadda Yadda tiger syndrome Yadda Yadda German players are bad... All of them... Only me in my 70+ games in tiger (or whatever it was) am supreme to all ye German plebs"

 

I have never said I am supreme over anyone, I've merely said that there is no reason to buy into the German inferiority complex (there isn't). Believing Germany cannot compete is what holds Germany back--people psych themselves out and that hurts them.

 

As for my Tigers and the results they yielded--yes, that proved the Tigers are perfectly capable of realizing success. There's nothing stopping others from replicating my successes, it's not hard.

 

6 hours ago, MagicalMethod said:

Just ignore him...  

 

People ignore what they cannot argue with.

[MagicalMethod 1,768]

3 hours ago, warrior412 said:

I have never said I am supreme over anyone, I've merely said that there is no reason to buy into the German inferiority complex (there isn't). Believing Germany cannot compete is what holds Germany back--people psych themselves out and that hurts them.

 

As for my Tigers and the results they yielded--yes, that proved the Tigers are perfectly capable of realizing success. There's nothing stopping others from replicating my successes, it's not hard.

I was exaggerating but that is pretty much what you're doing... In EVERY "pro German" thread... And I'm not even joking. 

 

I guess it's okay for US to club now that theirs T-series received a buff. 

T29 and T34 is now absolutely 7.0-7.3 material. 

And you can't argue on that.

3 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

 People ignore what they cannot argue with.

People also ignore stubborn or overall annoying people who spout nonsense. 

You're intelligent man... But I'd like you to know, you'd do us "German plebs" a big service if you simply stopped responding to threads like these. We're evidently below your mastery of tank combat and totally not worth your attention.. After all, all of us have tiger syndrome and we should simply learn how to git gut.. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by MagicalMethod

[MH4UAstragon 9,581]

The T29, T34, T32, and T32E1 are 7.3-7.7 material now.

 

Meanwhile the Maus and E-100 are 6.7 material, considering its possible with the 105 solid shot to pen an angled Maus turret from considerable distance away. 

[MagicalMethod 1,768]

7 hours ago, DaGreenBolt said:

The other sweet spot for germany is 8.7br but that will die soon once the mbt 70, and chieftain mk 10 go down to 9.0.

I don't think it will die that easily. 1A1 is easily capable of dealing with MBTs or chieftains. Then you have the TAM, bakelitpanzer, 120mm Leo. That's still pretty damn strong lineup. The KPZ might  just get downtiered as well. So I'm pretty sure it will survive. 

[warrior412 14,723]

31 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

I was exaggerating but that is pretty much what you're doing... In EVERY "pro German" thread... And I'm not even joking.

 

I just tell it like it is--nothing more, nothing less. Debunking the nonsense "German = inferior" line is something I do to help Germany out. (I will level with you, I personally want to see German teams better because I'm tired of being saddled with sacks of potatoes for teammates.)

 

31 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

I guess it's okay for US to club now that theirs T-series received a buff. 

 

Not something I ever said.

 

31 minutes ago, MagicalMethod said:

People also ignore stubborn or overall annoying people who spout nonsense. 

You're intelligent man... But I'd like you to know, you'd do us "German plebs" a big service if you simply stopped responding to threads like these. We're evidently below your mastery of tank combat and totally not worth your attention.. After all, all of us have tiger syndrome and we should simply learn how to git gut..  

 

Telling it like it is is neither being stubborn nor spouting nonsense--I'm just being honest is all. The perpetual pity party for Germany has not helped Germany--people still run about in their Tigers, don't angle them and then cannot understand why they die. No, instead the claim "the Tiger is terrible!" and all that. Tolerating that and allowing that line to go forth does not help Germany, it hurts Germany. When people have the courage to face up to what really troubles Germany, Germany will improve.

 

I never said everyone has Tiger syndrome. What I have said (and shown) is that German tanks can do well--there is no reason others can't replicate my successes. The only thing holding the tanks back are their players and, even more to the point, the players psyching themselves out. They think they can't do well, so they don't.

Edited February 22, 2019 by warrior412

[Darkrocket14 758]

3 hours ago, warrior412 said:

People ignore what they cannot argue with.

You will find two examples filling nearly the entire thread with nothing but the same arguments.

 

I think people would appreciate it if these two individuals would continue their argumentation elsewhere. 

 

To sum things up: German teams on average have a lower WR than other nations. Most people say this is due to the vehicles performing less well in an environment they were not created for and some people think that it is due to the players being inexperienced and big holes in the tech tree. 

 

Nevertheless, I think that whatever the reason for the bad performance of German teams from br 5.7 to 6.7 (for example) may be, they should receive a buff or br changes in order to make the game balanced and fun for all players and all nations. This balance means a WR of around 50% (+-5%) for most and if possible all vehicles, including premium ones. It is not possible to improve things otherwise. Saying that German teams perform less well then other nations due to them being less experienced is just a statement. There comes no logical idea or solution to fix the problem we are discussing here with it. It agrees that German teams perform less well but it just leaves it as it is. 

 

Actually, there were two things that were suggested as a way to improve the situation. The first one was to move the Panzer IIIs and IVs up in br to fill the gap between 3.3 or 4.3 and 5.7. The main and basically only argument for this was the long 75mm gun that the Pz4s have. Apparently it is op if they can kill stuff from the front. I see low tier as a point and click game. Pretty much everything can kill the Pz IIIs and IVs from the front, except maybe the Pz IVH with additional armour. It is a game of reflexes where the player that shots first usually wins the engagement. This affects all sides and most tanks at low tier and does not give German tanks a huge advantage, as they do not have great armour and can be penetrated by almost everything

 

Another argument is the so-called "Tiger syndrome". This argument is based on the idea that 90% of all German players are German Players because they want to get the Tiger 1, all of them have no idea of history and all watched the same documentary about Michael Wittmann. Also, the playstyle of Tiger Is is extraordinarily different from that of the Pz IIIs and IVs so they lack experience with heavy tanks. As a result, Germany players have less experience than their allied counterparts.

First of all, I do not see any real difference between playing the Pz IIIs and IVs and the Tiger 1s. You still cannot take hits from most tanks, even if angled, since the Tiger 1 has the same frontal armour as a Pz IVH with additional armour installed. Moreover, the gun and its playstyle are almost identical as well, just that is cannot kill everything even in a full uptier anymore. 

Second, I find it strange if only German RB ground players from br 5.7 to 6.7 have this magical lack of experience and most stuff afterwards does just fine. Additionally, why does this only apply to Germany? I mean even if the Pz IIIs and IVs would be overperforming as those players state, why are American players which most of the time have played the 4.7 Jumbo before getting to the American heavies perform so well? The Jumbo is one of the easiest tanks to play at the moment and has absolutely no problem dealing with Pz IVs. 

The solution suggested is the same as the first one. 

 

Again, even if the problem is experience, which I totally disagree with, I do not see a problem with giving German vehicles a buff at this br. If it does result in German vehicles becoming too strong we can nerf them to a degree where they perform as well as the other nations. 

 

I do not think that anybody here wants to make German vehicles op and I do not support these people. 

 

 

[warrior412 14,723]

2 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

To sum things up: German teams on average have a lower WR than other nations. Most people say this is due to the vehicles performing less well in an environment they were not created for and some people think that it is due to the players being inexperienced and big holes in the tech tree. 

The main reason German win rates are lower (on average--stuff like the Panzer IVs have higher than average win rates) is because of the objectives. Capping zones is how you win games.

 

German tanks usually kill plenty, frequently in excess of their peers. However, kills =/= wins.

 

4 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

Actually, there were two things that were suggested as a way to improve the situation. The first one was to move the Panzer IIIs and IVs up in br to fill the gap between 3.3 or 4.3 and 5.7. The main and basically only argument for this was the long 75mm gun that the Pz4s have. Apparently it is op if they can kill stuff from the front. I see low tier as a point and click game. Pretty much everything can kill the Pz IIIs and IVs from the front, except maybe the Pz IVH with additional armour. It is a game of reflexes where the player that shots first usually wins the engagement. This affects all sides and most tanks at low tier and does not give German tanks a huge advantage, as they do not have great armour and can be penetrated by almost everything

 

Unlike other nations' mediums at that rank, the Panzer IVs can OHK enemy heavies a BR higher like the Churchill and Jumbo frontally. simply by aiming at weakpoints. That capability has value to it.

 

8 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

Another argument is the so-called "Tiger syndrome". This argument is based on the idea that 90% of all German players are German Players because they want to get the Tiger 1, all of them have no idea of history and all watched the same documentary about Michael Wittmann. Also, the playstyle of Tiger Is is extraordinarily different from that of the Pz IIIs and IVs so they lack experience with heavy tanks. As a result, Germany players have less experience than their allied counterparts.

 

It is well documented that teams around 5.7 have inordinately high numbers of highly inexperienced players--sometimes in excess of 25%.

 

9 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

First of all, I do not see any real difference between playing the Pz IIIs and IVs and the Tiger 1s. You still cannot take hits from most tanks, even if angled, since the Tiger 1 has the same frontal armour as a Pz IVH with additional armour installed. Moreover, the gun and its playstyle are almost identical as well, just that is cannot kill everything even in a full uptier anymore.

 

When angled properly, the Tiger does have the ability to resist much of the fire that's lobbed at it. The turret front is also much stronger and so the parallels in that regard are not there either.

 

10 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

Second, I find it strange if only German RB ground players from br 5.7 to 6.7 have this magical lack of experience and most stuff afterwards does just fine. Additionally, why does this only apply to Germany? I mean even if the Pz IIIs and IVs would be overperforming as those players state, why are American players which most of the time have played the 4.7 Jumbo before getting to the American heavies perform so well? The Jumbo is one of the easiest tanks to play at the moment and has absolutely no problem dealing with Pz IVs.  

 

The Jumbo players are not succeeding so much as their opposition is failing.

 

By your own words:

 

11 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

a game of reflexes where the player that shots first usually wins the engagement. [German tanks] do not have great armour and can be penetrated by almost everything 

 

The "usually" qualifier comes in here because with the Jumbo precise shooting is necessary to harm it. Many people flub their shots and so the Jumbo gets a shot into them. As the German tanks aren't quite so resilient, taking that fire hurts.

 

That is why the Jumbos succeed--they often get a chance at returning fire.

 

13 minutes ago, Darkrocket14 said:

Again, even if the problem is experience, which I totally disagree with, I do not see a problem with giving German vehicles a buff at this br. If it does result in German vehicles becoming too strong we can nerf them to a degree where they perform as well as the other nations. 

 

The Panther A is already at 5.7 while the Jumbos and T20 are being uptiered--what more is there to do to buff Germany?

[tranquillium 553]

54 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

I just tell it like it is--nothing more, nothing less. Debunking the nonsense "German = inferior" line is something I do to help Germany out. (I will level with you, I personally want to see German teams better because I'm tired of being saddled with sacks of potatoes for teammates.)

You are not telling like it is, you are telling how you think it is. Also you aren‘t showing much, but you are telling others that you showed something. You always want others to accept your opinion and take it as proven or a matter of fact. I can accept this behavior, but would you please be so kind to accept others with different opinions or play-styles also? There is no right or wrong play-style, there is no correct and incorrect. The world is just not black and white and this won‘t change although you are repeating it over and over again. Every thinking being taking part in this discussion understood that you and landkreuzer won‘t agree, because extreme positions can‘t be put together, but  please spare us your detailed opinion sounding like inhuman wisdom. We know you are a good player, we know you think you base your opinion on hard facts, you don‘t have to repeat it over and over again. This discussion-style is annoying. There are thousands of arguments for both sides, there are also many factors that have to be taken serious, but you aren‘t making it any better if you jump onto any argument and try to bring the counter-argument. It just sounds constructed and is hard to take serious.

This isn‘t meant to be offensive, I would be happy if you think about it.

 

Back to topic

For me being an average player there is not much difference between US and German 5.7 lineup, I find it just easier to play with allied tanks. I don‘t have to aim that much, my tanks are usually more mobile and I have a greater variety to pick a starting vehicle. Jumbo, T-25, M-36, any P-47 and M-19 are standard, but M 18 is also a good choice on some maps. The German 5.7 is sort of one-sided Tigers or Panthers. German CAS is very good but to be effective they need more time over the battlefield, only in end-game they are superior to US  CAS because of the guns. With US CAS it is quite easy to get one or two kills with one or two passes and then either RTB or act as a fighter or interceptor. 

 

And @Darkrocket14 Exellent, thank you!

 

 

12 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

It is well documented that teams around 5.7 have inordinately high numbers of highly inexperienced players--sometimes in excess of 25%.

Would you please provide us the documentation about the matchmaking?