FT-17 Renault

[CaID 8,992]

On 23/01/2021 at 06:57, Abaddon75 said:

No it's not the NC1 or 2 cause what we see is the original track and suspension system.

 

Here is the NCs (1 = new Renault suspension. 2 = first attempt from Citroen to adapt kegresse system)  :

 

 

Now the classic one :

 

And to end the stuff here is D1 with the 3 turrets used on it:

 

 

There a suggestion for D1 go theck it out, but remember that at this time, turrets where designed and produce by an other company than the one that work on the hull (most of the time) that's why the FTs were used as test beds or turret were used to simulate or having a better vew of what could be the final result.

 

 

the Renault FT is not the same as the NC.

 

there was a trial to change the suspension of the Renault FT to put a Kegress rubber track. here is a picture

the modified 26 of them and used them in Morroco in 1925, they even fight in the Riff war. the speed was increased from 8 km/h to 12-13 km/h wich is a decent improvement. the engine was unchanged. the only issue is the rubber track was often snapping off the wheels when turning. the crew of 2 men had to get off the tank and put the rubber track back on the wheels by hand, it was a dificult task as the rubber was heavy and it was impossible to move the tank properly to put it back on. the test was officially a failure when one of the FT crew was been killed while working on puting back the track in place, they was surprised by the enemy who was in that time using swift attack on horseback.

 

the NC was different, it was going to be a replacement of the FT for both army and cavalry. the Cavalry was already using the Kegress suspension. the NC was using a stronger engine but the chassis was still mainly the same as the FT as it was really simple and cheap and allow the possibility to reuse the FT to upgrade them. only the armament was still too weak by 1928 and France wanted something more powerful, so they decide to use the 47mm gun, but the turret was too small for a 47mm, so they had to built a new turret, the chassis was too small for the new turret, so they had to built a new chassis, and that is how the D1 was born. it was a enlarged version of the NC. but it was full of flaw, to keep the tank cheap they used cheap part and weak pieced to keep it together, the frame was twisting while driving under the pressure of his how weight and it made it very unreliable, the turret and driving compartment was also very crowded, it was a flaw that the FT also had, but during the few month of the WW1 where the FT was used, it didn't really was a problem, but when you do it for 2-3 years, the crew started to have problems with their back and raised up the fatigue, the tank also had a much longer autonomy wich mean the torture was longer before they had a break (for refueling) in other word, it was a bad tank hated by the army, the D2 was much better and solve most of the flaw, with a new turret, better driving compartment, but the reliability was not much better and the crew still hated it because it was too similar to the D1. so they never really see the D2 as good tank until the WW2 came and Colonel DeGaul show them how the D2 was in battle. the armor was better than the German one, the gun as well, the mobility was not as good as the German but it was as good as any french tank of his time, and it had a radio wich was something the french seldom had. that was one of the major tactical flaw of the french, they seldom had radio to talk between tanks which the German always had, making them better in battle as they could call the Ju-87 as soon they spotted a tank like the B1bis or inform the other tank where and when to flank the enemy which was one of the best reason why the German had wiped out the French army so fast. because 1 on 1, the french was having more tank and many was much superior on paper.

 

 

note that the NC, even if they had a decent mobility, are also not fit for the game as they still have the old version of the SA18 which is having less than 20mm of penetration.

Edited January 24, 2021 by CaID

[Abaddon75 460]

Well you put a lot of details but where is the sauce :p

 

Of what read on internet I thought that military staff had ask a for a better FT especially for suspensions, then Renault and Citroen proposed NCs and army staff said that's cool but that's just a FT with new suspensions, now FT are obsolete we need it with more protection more firepower and a third man for radio and that's how we get the D1 as for the D2 it was an other request from military HQ for a Battletank to be used in the wait of B1 or as replacement if not enough B1 were ready...

[CaID 8,992]

1 hour ago, Abaddon75 said:

Well you put a lot of details but where is the sauce :p

 

check out the NC 25/26 from the internet. that designation was never used but it's used on the internet by wannabe expert to identified the Renault FT mod 1925 with Kegress suspension.

 

i read it, in GBM magazine TNT magazines, les archives nationals, serial book i read over the years (i could nave you 2-3 from my personal library) but there is also some internet source like this one: http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/05/renault-nc-destined-for-export.html

 

in the period 1920-1930, France was in rebuilding the economy mode and didn't really fare well in that, the worker strike, the colonial empire and the international competition was hard for france, the armored development was having very small budget for two reason, they still have the largest number of tank (Renault FT) and there was no imminent treat as Germany wasn't allowed to have tank, Italy didn't really had a large number of them, UK was allied and Spain was not really using them in number. that is a details that few Wanna-be-expert take into account when spreading their own understanding of the french tank on the internet.

 

and do not question my knowledge on tanks, i did research for years now, i am writing articles as well, i am no internet wanna-be-expert. the Renault FT is one of the most documented tank. i even wrote dozens pages on the many variants and up-grades of the FT family, going from the Mod 25/26, mode 31, to the NC, even went to the foreign variants such as the Fiat 3000, M1916 and Ruskyi Reno who is not only a copy, but a real up-graded Renault FT who have more speed and more firepower, the first tank to have both gun and LMG in the same turret.

Edited January 24, 2021 by CaID

[Atomeur 529]

I think on the picture I posted, they just tested the turret of the Renault NC 1 (or 2) with the armament on a Renault FT. This wasn't designed to fight or to be produced.

[Atomeur 529]

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/Char_Renault_D1.php

[Abaddon75 460]

On 24/01/2021 at 22:08, CaID said:

check out the NC 25/26 from the internet. that designation was never used but it's used on the internet by wannabe expert to identified the Renault FT mod 1925 with Kegress suspension.

 

i read it, in GBM magazine TNT magazines, les archives nationals, serial book i read over the years (i could nave you 2-3 from my personal library) but there is also some internet source like this one: http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/05/renault-nc-destined-for-export.html

 

in the period 1920-1930, France was in rebuilding the economy mode and didn't really fare well in that, the worker strike, the colonial empire and the international competition was hard for france, the armored development was having very small budget for two reason, they still have the largest number of tank (Renault FT) and there was no imminent treat as Germany wasn't allowed to have tank, Italy didn't really had a large number of them, UK was allied and Spain was not really using them in number. that is a details that few Wanna-be-expert take into account when spreading their own understanding of the french tank on the internet.

 

and do not question my knowledge on tanks, i did research for years now, i am writing articles as well, i am no internet wanna-be-expert. the Renault FT is one of the most documented tank. i even wrote dozens pages on the many variants and up-grades of the FT family, going from the Mod 25/26, mode 31, to the NC, even went to the foreign variants such as the Fiat 3000, M1916 and Ruskyi Reno who is not only a copy, but a real up-graded Renault FT who have more speed and more firepower, the first tank to have both gun and LMG in the same turret.

Ok keep cool guy, I'm just nobody here, if I'm asking for source (and not questioning your knowledge) it's because of the lack of knowledge from my part. Just drop Archives Nationale and I would be happy, peace

 

[PrussianOwl 438]

On 24/01/2021 at 13:08, CaID said:

check out the NC 25/26 from the internet. that designation was never used but it's used on the internet by wannabe expert to identified the Renault FT mod 1925 with Kegress suspension.

 

i read it, in GBM magazine TNT magazines, les archives nationals, serial book i read over the years (i could nave you 2-3 from my personal library) but there is also some internet source like this one: http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/05/renault-nc-destined-for-export.html

 

in the period 1920-1930, France was in rebuilding the economy mode and didn't really fare well in that, the worker strike, the colonial empire and the international competition was hard for france, the armored development was having very small budget for two reason, they still have the largest number of tank (Renault FT) and there was no imminent treat as Germany wasn't allowed to have tank, Italy didn't really had a large number of them, UK was allied and Spain was not really using them in number. that is a details that few Wanna-be-expert take into account when spreading their own understanding of the french tank on the internet.

 

and do not question my knowledge on tanks, i did research for years now, i am writing articles as well, i am no internet wanna-be-expert. the Renault FT is one of the most documented tank. i even wrote dozens pages on the many variants and up-grades of the FT family, going from the Mod 25/26, mode 31, to the NC, even went to the foreign variants such as the Fiat 3000, M1916 and Ruskyi Reno who is not only a copy, but a real up-graded Renault FT who have more speed and more firepower, the first tank to have both gun and LMG in the same turret.

You're an FT expert? Can I ask your help with something?

[CaID 8,992]

On 25/01/2021 at 22:20, PrussianOwl said:

You're an FT expert? Can I ask your help with something?

I always read private message, and there is quit a few who can tell i am the kind to be happy to help, when i have the time for it

On 25/01/2021 at 04:52, Atomeur said:

I think on the picture I posted, they just tested the turret of the Renault NC 1 (or 2) with the armament on a Renault FT. This wasn't designed to fight or to be produced.

Yes, it was because the turret was not yet designed and they mounted the FT turret to allow the crew to train on the tank, i do not think it ever fired with it or even had ammo rack inside. It was literrally called "tourelle provisoire" or "tempoary turret"

 

The AMC 34 also received the FT turret for a time until the APX was ready

Edited January 27, 2021 by CaID

[Yontzee 1,673]

The basis for many tank designs +1

[Milocat 4,848]

We should definitely get this if we get a tier 0 for tank battles given its incredible influence on countless other designs.  However, as the game is currently, the FT-17 would be such a piece of trash that it wouldn't even be fun as a meme vehicle.  

[Atomeur 529]

Hello all !

I found probably a very rare and epic story about the Renault FT which happenned in 1945 in the French Army against Japanese army. They participated to the only defense of the Pacific War where Japanese has given the honours to their ennemies.

 

The 9th of March 1945, the Japanese attack Hanoi in Indochina. In the city, the French army, with very very very old vehicles, did't wait to this attack. In the main citadel, there are around 1000 French men against around more than 6000 Japanese men with their heavy armaments. The attack is very violent but the french men hold the citadel. At 7 h 00, after 11 hours of heavy fight (during the night, the attack began at 20 h 00), the French Army did a counter-attack with some Panhard armored cars and 3 Renaut FT. I didn't find any more informations about what the FT became. They probably fight during a "long" time because the armoured cars resisted to 4x40mm hits before being destroyed. Maybe they defended the main doors of the citadel. It was maybe his last fight, more than 30 years after his conseption. I don't have the book of the informations.

The attack take and at 16 h 30, after more than 20 h of defense without pause. This is the first and only time in the Pacific War when Japanese army gives honour to their ennemies.

 

Sources :

http://philippe.millour.free.fr/Indochine/CitadelleHanoi.html

http://france1940.free.fr/vichy/tk_indo.html#n15

[CaID 8,992]

4 hours ago, Atomeur said:

Hello all !

I found probably a very rare and epic story about the Renault FT which happenned in 1945 in the French Army against Japanese army. They participated to the only defense of the Pacific War where Japanese has given the honours to their ennemies.

 

The 9th of March 1945, the Japanese attack Hanoi in Indochina. In the city, the French army, with very very very old vehicles, did't wait to this attack. In the main citadel, there are around 1000 French men against around more than 6000 Japanese men with their heavy armaments. The attack is very violent but the french men hold the citadel. At 7 h 00, after 11 hours of heavy fight (during the night, the attack began at 20 h 00), the French Army did a counter-attack with some Panhard armored cars and 3 Renaut FT. I didn't find any more informations about what the FT became. They probably fight during a "long" time because the armoured cars resisted to 4x40mm hits before being destroyed. Maybe they defended the main doors of the citadel. It was maybe his last fight, more than 30 years after his conseption. I don't have the book of the informations.

The attack take and at 16 h 30, after more than 20 h of defense without pause. This is the first and only time in the Pacific War when Japanese army gives honour to their ennemies.

 

Sources :

http://philippe.millour.free.fr/Indochine/CitadelleHanoi.html

http://france1940.free.fr/vichy/tk_indo.html#n15

they should do a map about the pont st-louis battle. i am sure there would be no more joke about the french WW2 effectiveness when they learn how they deal with the Italian army there.

[Solarmod 1,203]

Got to see one of these recently, restored and in running order, such a pretty machine. Can't wait for a Rank 0 so I can play with it.

[CokeSpray 7,272]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.