F-8E (FN) "Crusader" - a 34 years story -

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

Aircraft: Vought F-8E (FN) "Crusader" - French Modified Variant

 

Classification: Single-engine, carrier-based jet fighter

 

Main Role: Carrier Fleet Defender / Interceptor (into the French Aéronavale)

Late Role: Recon+Photographic Aircraft (into the French Aéronavale)

 

 

Visuals:  (As possibles skins: image 1 and 2)

Spoiler

No Missiles, but Frame-Rails Mounted

R550 Magic-1 mounted on Frame-Rails

3rd Image with a R550 Magic-1 Missile

 

Description:  The Vought F-8E, also known as the F8U-2NE, was the definitive production variant of the Crusader series of aircraft. Widely known as “The Last Gunfighter” or "The MiG Killer", the Crusader was a highly innovative aircraft for the time in which it was developed, featuring a variable-incidence wing that extended out of the fuselage by 7 degrees during takeoff and landing, allowing for a greater AoA that increased lift at low speeds. The F-8 also featured leading-edge slats, an area-ruled fuselage, an all moving stabilator, dog-tooth wings for increased yaw stability, and of course, four 20mm cannon that earned the Crusader the distinction of being the last US fighter designed around gun armament as the main weapon.

 

The Crusader also saw usage into two foreign militaries, as the F-8H "Hukbong Panghimpapawid ng Pilipinas" (Philippine Air Force) and the France F-8E (FN)

 

During the first years of the "Sixties", Chance Vought added a command of 42 aircrafts asked by the French Aéronavale, but slightly modified to be used on the French Carriers named R-98"Clémenceau" and R-99 "Foch".

The F-8E(FN) "Crouze" (derivated from Crusader by French Pilots) was the unique Main Role Air-Air Fighter for French Aéronavale, until the upcoming Super Etendard in 1978: 14 years as First Line Fighter.

 

Armement Modifications:

- On-rails Fire capability of the Air-Air Missile Matra R550 "Magic I" and R550 "Magic II", instead of AIM-9C Sidewinder used by USMC - it's an IR Guided Missile with speed of Mach 2.7, with a Max Range of 15km.

(New rails than USMC ones)

- On-rails Fire capability of the Air-Air Missile Matra R530 - 2 variants depending on the head mounted missile: Medium-Used Range Radar Guided Missile // Short-Used Range IR Guided Missile - with speed of Mach 2.7, and a Maximum range of 20km (Mainly the Radar guided one).

(Special Rails)

 

Design Modifications:

- Blown flaps system(BLC, Boundary Layer Control) - This used air taken from the engine's compressor and ejected it through adjustable vents located over the flaps and ailerons. The air flow progressively increased as flaps were lowered.
- The angle of the variable wing was also decreased to 5° in place of the 7° from US. Variant

- The  leading edge slats were split lengthwise, which increased their drooping angle to 44°

- Flap and aileron droop was also increased to 40°

-The modifications allowed a decrease of 15 knots(28kmh) in the Crusader's landing speed (H ave largely reduced stall speed over USA variant, as all these functioned to make it work on French Carriers)

 

With these 42 aircrafts, the 12F squadron is re-created during 1964, and the 14F squadron got the replacement of actuals F4U-7, during 1965.  (F stand for "Flotille" in french)
 

The F-8E (FN) was used during numerous opertions

-> "Saphir-I" and "Saphir-II" over the east african peninsula.

-> "Oliphant-XVII" and "Oliphant-XX" over Lebanon

-> "Mirmillon" near the Libian coast

-> "Prométhée" into the Persian Golf

 

The Lone "War Mission" :

During an exercise, Two of the F-8E (FN) from the 14F squadron, intercepted 2 aircrafts.

 

But instead of 2 F-100D of the 4/11 "Jura" squadron from "Armée de l'Air", those was 2 Yemenite MiG-21 "Fishbed"

 

The French "Crouze" powered up the armement, but in the end, both groups returned to their bases, without any fights.

 

 

Death of "Crouze"

The 17 F-8E(FN) got modernised to F-8P (P stand for "Prolongé", meaning "Prolonged") and got the Recon Mission Role, before getting replaced by both Super-Etendard and Rafale M, during october 1999.

With the 34 Years of service, the "Crouze" literally went through the Time, being the "Last Crusader" of it's time.  
(USA start the retirement process in 1975, and definitly end in 1987 / Philippians stopped to fly in 1988, and were scrapped after the Pinatubo volcanic eruption in 1991)

 

General characteristics

Crew:  1x Pilot

Payload:  5,000 lb (2,300 kg) of weapons

Length:  54 ft 3 in (16.53 m)

Wingspan:  35 ft 8 in (10.87 m)

Height:  15 ft 9 in (4.80 m)

Wing area:  375 ft² (34.8 m²)

Aspect ratio:  3.4

Empty weight:  17,541 lb (7,956 kg)

Loaded weight:  29,000 lb (13,000 kg)

Max. takeoff weight:  34,000 lb (15,000 kg)

Zero-lift drag coefficient:  0.0133

Drag area:  5.0 ft² (0.46 m²)

Fuel capacity:  1,325 US gal (5,020 L)

Powerplant:  1 × Pratt & Whitney J57-P-20A afterburning turbojet

Dry thrust:  10,700 lbf (47.6 kN)

Thrust with afterburner:  18,000 lbf (80.1 kN)

 

Performance

Maximum speed:  Mach 1.86 (1,225 mph, 1,975 km/h) at 36,000 ft (11,000 m)

Cruise speed:  495 kn (570 mph, 917 km/h)

Combat radius:  450 mi (730 km)

Ferry range:  1,735 mi (2792 km) (with external fuel)

Service ceiling:  58,000 ft (17,700 m)

Rate of climb:  19,000 ft min [99] (96.52 m/s)

Wing loading:  77.3 lb/ft² (377.6 kg/m²)

Thrust/weight:  0.62

Lift-to-drag ratio:  12.8

 

Armament:

Guns: 4x Colt Mk.12 Mod 3 20mm cannon (500 rounds total)

Bomb/Rocket/Missile Ordnance:

- Special French Ordonnance - 

• 2x AIM-9B Sidewinder 
• 4x AIM-9B Sidewinder
• 2x R530 Matra (IR)
• 1x R530 Matra (IR) + 1x R530 Matra (Radar)
• 2x R530 Matra (Radar)
• 2x R550 Magic-1

 

- Late Coming Introduction -

• 2x R550 Magic-2 --------> For Later Introduction to the game

 

NB: the French Aéronavale have Mainly used Etendard IVM and lately Super Etendard for doing all the CAS/Bombing Job, so they did not bought underwings pylons for bombs

PS: i may propose to dispatch all missile modification like following: (depending on how performing those Missiles will in the game as IRL performances)

A-Line: 2x AIM-9B (Rank I) --> 4x AIM-9B (Rank II) --> R550 Magic-I (Rank III)  --> R550 Magic-II (Rank IV - Late Coming)
B-Line: R530 Matra - IR guided variant (Rank II) --> R530 Matra - Radar guided variant (Rank III - needed to unlock Magic-II)
 

This addition to the French tech tree will provide a fully dedicated carrier based aircraft to Air Combat and Interception, as the main role of the Etendard IVM is to do CAS/Bombing missions.

SOURCES:

"Les Crusader Français en action" Jean-Marie Gall - LELA Presse - 1997

"Histoire Succincte de l'Aéronautique Navale (1910-1998)" Vice-Amiral Roger Vercken - ARDHAN - 1998

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/crusader/caracter.htm

http://www.crusader.gaetanmarie.com/articles/french/part1.htm

Standard Aircraft Characteristics: F-8E Crusader Chance Vought, NAVAIR 00-110AF8-5, 1 July 1967

NATOPS Flight Manual Navy Model F-8D, F-8E Aircraft, NAVWEPS 01-45HHD-1, 1 November 1964, Changed 15 January 1967
https://books.google.fr/books?id=zUu4AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA478&lpg=PA478&dq=Version+Missile+Aim-9+sur+F-8E(FN)&source=bl&ots=vETSr2eTAd&sig=ACfU3U20GaKJXElUNFEU5o3lv1RlVu2ANw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR-tfPgM_nAhVGxIUKHQ0kDX4Q6AEwA3oECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=Version Missile Aim-9 sur F-8E(FN)&f=false

--- EDITION CHANGEMENTS ---
Adding Source about Retractable Rocket Pod --> Deleted because of Heavily lack of intel.

More Images
corrected angle variation of the wing

Loadouts Changement:

- Add of Retractable Rocket Pod

- Deleting "4x Magic-2" 

- Adding intel need for "4x Magic-1" (developped,but abandonned) --> Deleted : sources confirmed that this option was never prototyped.

- Add the Mixed R530 Type Loadout (1x IR + 1x Radar guided)

- Correction of the AIM-9 Type, from C to B - by fact, the France never bought AIM-9C

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Cpt_Bel_V

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[Kasukaru 2,164]

I'm pretty sure this plane is already in the works (since its model was "leaked" last year). But of course +1!

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Nice suggestion 

Btw are you sure France operated the AIM-9C? and also the x4 Magic loadout?

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

1 hour ago, Cedjoe said:

Nice suggestion 

Btw are you sure France operated the AIM-9C? and also the x4 Magic loadout?

Your question is right

 

Actually, i'm using the lack of intel around the designated type of AIM-9 (B or C).

 

Since the F-8E(FN) was produced in the end of the production for all F-8E type, and since the F-8E type can use the AIM-9C, i put this one on board for the F-8E(FN).

 

"During its career, the F-8E(FN) was modernized on several occasions. Its weaponry was progressively improved. Its four Sidewinder armament was rarely used and abandoned in 1986. The Crusaders were often equipped with the Matra R.530, whose reliability was quite bad. In 1980, a 65% failure rate was recorded, but the missile was kept in inventory until the late 1980's. A mix of one radar-guided and one IR-guided R.530 was often carried by the Crusader.

The R.530 was replaced by the Matra R.550 Magic I, which was fitied to the Crusader in 1973. It was far more capable and reliable than the R.530 or early Sidewinders. The Super 530 was never used, as the AN.APQ-104 radar could not be made compatible with that missile. In 1988, the modernized Magic II was also introduced." - 3rd source.

 

"The F-8E(FN) kept the standard four gun and AIM-9 missile armament but was modified to be compatible with the French Matra R.530." - same 3rd Source.

Meaning the same standard as the F-8E for USN and USMC was used --> AIM-9C

 

the same source speak about the F-8E IRST, which was non-present on French Variant.

 

 

Speaking about the 4x Magic Loadout, i was in the wrong,...

I was thinking the Rails for the 4x AIM-9 was upgraded for Magic's, since the AIM-9 and the Magic are about the same dimensions.

 

The option for 4 Magic Missile, was developped but quickly abandonned in 1983. (Wikipedia source on R550 Magic-1 - the worst by far)

Seems like it have been tested before the Abandon project --> Is it still possible?! (I'll have the need for a Moderator of this Section for this whereabout : @CokeSpray @ItssLuBu ? )

Anyway, i think a need of source will be necessary for this.

 

 

I'm actually Reworking the Loadout part in the Suggestion, because of the lack of intel i got on these. (which would be appearing in some minutes)

Edited February 13, 2020 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Cedjoe 5,482]

9 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Your question is right

 

Actually, i'm using the lack of intel around the designated type of AIM-9 (B or C).

 

Since the F-8E(FN) was produced in the end of the production for all F-8E type, and since the F-8E type can use the AIM-9C, i put this one on board for the F-8E(FN).

 

"During its career, the F-8E(FN) was modernized on several occasions. Its weaponry was progressively improved. Its four Sidewinder armament was rarely used and abandoned in 1986. The Crusaders were often equipped with the Matra R.530, whose reliability was quite bad. In 1980, a 65% failure rate was recorded, but the missile was kept in inventory until the late 1980's. A mix of one radar-guided and one IR-guided R.530 was often carried by the Crusader.

The R.530 was replaced by the Matra R.550 Magic I, which was fitied to the Crusader in 1973. It was far more capable and reliable than the R.530 or early Sidewinders. The Super 530 was never used, as the AN.APQ-104 radar could not be made compatible with that missile. In 1988, the modernized Magic II was also introduced." - 3rd source.

 

"The F-8E(FN) kept the standard four gun and AIM-9 missile armament but was modified to be compatible with the French Matra R.530." - same 3rd Source.

Meaning the same standard as the F-8E for USN and USMC was used --> AIM-9C

 

the same source speak about the F-8E IRST, which was non-present on French Variant.

 

 

Speaking about the 4x Magic Loadout, i was in the wrong,...

I was thinking the Rails for the 4x AIM-9 was upgraded for Magic's, since the AIM-9 and the Magic are about the same dimensions.

 

The option for 4 Magic Missile, was developped but quickly abandonned in 1983. (Wikipedia source on R550 Magic-1 - the worst by far)

Seems like it have been tested before the Abandon project --> Is it still possible?! (I'll have the need for a Moderator of this Section for this Whereabout) i think a need of source will be necessary for this.

 

 

I'm actually Reworking the Loadout part in the Suggestion, because of the lack of intel i got on these. (which would be appearing in some minutes)

Ok thanks for the answer.

I had come to the same conclusions except I'm not sure France ever bought the AIM-9C, and I would say they simply were AIM-9Bs (that France had for sure), unless those weren't compatible with the F-8's mounts, which would make the AIM-9C's adoption more plausible.

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

i've found out intel about the "Flop" of the Aim-9C due to it's low capacity guidance.

 

seems like it was only AIM-9B (already bought by France) that was used on F8E(FN), because i never found out an AIM-9C Order by France to USA.

 

-> I'm changing that in the 1st Post.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Just now, Cpt_Bel_V said:

i've found out intel about the "Flop" of the Aim-9C due to it's low capacity guidance.

 

seems like it was only AIM-9B (already bought by France) that was used on F8E(FN).

 

-> I'm changing that in the 1st Post.

Ok thanks for the info

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

+1

[ivica70 910]

[Milocat 4,854]

Very nice suggestion.  Definite +1 from me, especially since the French modified the aircraft themselves.

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

4 minutes ago, Milocat said:

Very nice suggestion.  Definite +1 from me, especially since the French modified the aircraft themselves.

Not really themselves, but for themselves with American Designers. (at least for all the Frames Modifications).

 

and By themselves, only for R550 Magic-1 and R550 Magic-2 Introduction's.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Kasukaru 2,164]

Potential additional sources:

http://www.meacmtl.com/crusader_f8e.html

https://aatlse.org/fr/appareils/f8p-crusader/

https://www.escadrilles.org/histoire-et-histoires/la-12f-sur-reacteur-1/

http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.htm (quotes some AIM-1A as possible armament too).

Edited February 13, 2020 by Kasukaru
translation

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

1 hour ago, Kasukaru said:

 

http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.htm (quotes some AIM-1A as possible armament too).

it's AIM-9 1A

 

the 1A refers to the 1st batch of the AAM, meaning 9A and 9B Variants.

[Kasukaru 2,164]

OK, thanks for the clarification. In any case, the series of articles on www.escadrilles.org clearly states that the 2 French naval squadrons (12F and 14F) went straight from a mix of Matra 530 and AIM9B to mixes of Magic (1 and 2).

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

15 hours ago, Kasukaru said:

Potential additional sources:

http://www.meacmtl.com/crusader_f8e.html

Good photo for R530 Matra missile rail Pod. 

 

There is some good photo too in the www.escadrille.org link

[Kasukaru 2,164]

Yes. It's actually a series of 5 articles (I just linked the first, but the other ones are on the same site) and all 3 first are about the "Crouze" with literally hundreds of pictures of each version, cammo, armament and so on.

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

All the source i founded on 4xR550 Magic's for Crusader are telling me that the prototype for thoses was never completed.

--> deleted from suggestion Post

[MandolinMagi 603]

Can it take four AIM-9? It was my understanding that the French F-8s only had two missile rails total. 

 

That being said, this isn't my area of expertise.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

11 hours ago, MandolinMagi said:

Can it take four AIM-9? It was my understanding that the French F-8s only had two missile rails total. 

 

That being said, this isn't my area of expertise.

They had the rails to equip 4 AIM-9s but could only equip 2 magic or R.530 missiles.

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

11 hours ago, MandolinMagi said:

Can it take four AIM-9? It was my understanding that the French F-8s only had two missile rails total. 

 

That being said, this isn't my area of expertise.

The Rail for Aim9's are the same as those for the USN and USMC variants.

Those have been selled by America to France at the start of this project for the French Air Navy.

 

But due to differences with Aim9's, those rails were no good for the french made IR R550 Magic Missile. (light differences, but still)

 

For the R530, the difference much bigger, then you can't use any of those rails, and need special one. 

It's location on the plane is a bit more on the AFT side of the frame, than the location for Aim9 or Magic's ones. 

 

(as you can see on diverse photography I've put in the suggestion post)

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

does it carry counter-measures (flares and chaff dispensers) in it's late upgrade ?

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

19 minutes ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

does it carry counter-measures (flares and chaff dispensers) in it's late upgrade ?

into F-8P, maybe it was added (i'm not sure on that)

 

but for the F-8E(FN), there is no Flares/Chaffs/Electronic countermesure, this mean it would have nothing and Saty at a maximum (if BR are Discompressed) of 10.7./10.3

[Cedjoe 5,482]

7 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

does it carry counter-measures (flares and chaff dispensers) in it's late upgrade ?

 

6 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

into F-8P, maybe it was added (i'm not sure on that)

 

but for the F-8E(FN), there is no Flares/Chaffs/Electronic countermesure, this mean it would have nothing and Saty at a maximum (if BR are Discompressed) of 10.7./10.3

I think it had RWR but I might be wrong.

 

edit : it was actually the F-8P

Edited February 29, 2020 by Cedjoe

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

thanks for the infos guys , any specification on the R-530 with IR head (especially max g-load during fly , and max g-load during the launch), to see if it can fit the meta (with the R-60 i'm pretty sure it would fit but better be sure than sorry)