F-8E (FN) "Crusader" - a 34 years story -

[Cedjoe 5,482]

On 01/03/2020 at 11:04, MonkeyBussiness said:

thanks for the infos guys , any specification on the R-530 with IR head (especially max g-load during fly , and max g-load during the launch), to see if it can fit the meta (with the R-60 i'm pretty sure it would fit but better be sure than sorry)

I read here but I don’t remember on which page that the R.530 IR could sustain 15g during flight :

http://www.academie-air-espace.com/upload/doc/ressources/COMAERO 03 - Carpentier Missiles tactiques.pdf

It is also said that it was one of the first missiles in the world to use spectral band 2 (10 years before the US) which should make it able to detect targets heated from 300K to 1000K instead of 1000K to 2000K (K for Kelvin, not km or thousands) for missiles such as the AIM-9B. This should give it some limited all aspect capability (bottom of p. 123 and the following pages). It is also said the seeker is also similar to the Redtop missile's one and both have some limited all aspect capability.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Cedjoe

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

The R530 IR is more alike the Aim-9E, than the -B.

 

i didn't have source on specs for this missile,...

 

The R530 Radar is able to kill at 20-25km. (which is quite low range considering other Missiles such as AIM-7B/E

[Trotrodor 2,670]

+1

[Mad_Martinez 137]

+1
(should be have been added much earlier)

[Totolasticot 13]

Quote

The F-8E(FN) "Crouze" (derivated from Crusader by French Pilots) was the unique Main Role Air-Air Fighter for French Aéronavale, until the upcoming Super Etendard in 1978

 

I have to say this is not true, the Super Etendard was never intended as an air-air fighter, even though it had some ability. It was used as an air-air fighter only when the navy was waiting for the Rafale after the retiring of the Crouze in 1999.

 

 

But other than that you have my support, I would love to see it in game.

Edited May 23, 2020 by BaguettePower

[Abaddon75 460]

+1 hope to see it nearby this year
 

Missile wise though, I found this picture of a F-8 FN with the 4 AIM-9 load out, but one looks different, maybe I'm wrong, is there somebody that have an answer? i.e an expert of AIM-9 familly maybe? it appears to be dummy AAM for trials, no rollerons (thx to Cedjoe to spot it out)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:F-8E(FN)_landing_on_carrier_c1964.jpeg

they are saying it is "equiped with one AIM-9 Sidewinder 1A" but it's not even counting the second one... and it's wikipedia so....

 

EDIT : @Cpt_Bel_V The first image you show is a F-8 P, the modernised FN, maybe add the P into your article or make/wait for a separate article about it, cause it has a much modern package than everything else we have currently in game like the IFF
http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/caracteristiques.htm

left F-8E (FN) and right F-8P

underneath : some electronic equipment of F-8P

 

http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.html

Spoiler

AVIONICS AND MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT

F-8E/P : -AN/APQ 104 radar (nav:60NM / interception: 25NM). -In flight Refuelling probe. -A Pratt&Whitney J57-P-20A 5,7t engine (afterburner 8,2t). F-8E : -Martin-Baker Mk.F5A-F (0/120) ejection seat. -TRAP 35 antenna. F-8P : -Martin-Baker Mk.7 (0/0) ejection seat -GPS -VOR/ILS -Mode 4 IFF -VHF/UHF antennas -TACAN -Radio-altimeter -ADF -SHERLOCK RWR (Radar Warning Receiver)

 

edit : Idk why I can't delete these grey and white element

Edited January 12, 2021 by Abaddon75

[Cedjoe 5,482]

1 hour ago, Abaddon75 said:

+1 hope to see it nearby this year
 

Missile wise though, I found this picture of a F-8 FN with the 4 AIM-9 load out, but one looks different, maybe I'm wrong, is there somebody that have an answer? i.e an expert of AIM-9 familly maybe?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:F-8E(FN)_landing_on_carrier_c1964.jpeg

they are saying it is "equiped with one AIM-9 Sidewinder 1A" but it's not even counting the second one... and it's wikipedia so....

 

EDIT : @Cpt_Bel_V The first image you show is a F-8 P, the modernised FN, maybe add the P into your article or make/wait for a separate article about it, cause it has a much modern package than everything else we have currently in game like the IFF
http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/caracteristiques.htm

left F-8E (FN) and right F-8P

underneath : some electronic equipment of F-8P

 

http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.html

Reveal hidden contents

AVIONICS AND MISCELLANEOUS EQUIPMENT

F-8E/P : -AN/APQ 104 radar (nav:60NM / interception: 25NM). -In flight Refuelling probe. -A Pratt&Whitney J57-P-20A 5,7t engine (afterburner 8,2t). F-8E : -Martin-Baker Mk.F5A-F (0/120) ejection seat. -TRAP 35 antenna. F-8P : -Martin-Baker Mk.7 (0/0) ejection seat -GPS -VOR/ILS -Mode 4 IFF -VHF/UHF antennas -TACAN -Radio-altimeter -ADF -SHERLOCK RWR (Radar Warning Receiver)

 

edit : Idk why I can't delete these grey and white element

I'm pretty sure they're mock-ups for testing 

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

@Abadon6536:

Yes the 1st is an 8P, but as i said over the spoiler, it's for skins. 

 

As the blue grey camo was introduced before the 8P variant to be introduced. 

[Abaddon75 460]

5 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

I'm pretty sure they're mock-ups for testing 

yeah, we were discussing it elsewhere on the forum, and it looks like the upper one have the head of a AIM-9D but it never enter service with french Crusader, so it might have been tested but not accepted.

4 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

@Abadon6536:

Yes the 1st is an 8P, but as i said over the spoiler, it's for skins. 

 

As the blue grey camo was introduced before the 8P variant to be introduced. 

Yes I can try to found you some pic, because it may confuse people

[Cedjoe 5,482]

1 minute ago, Abaddon75 said:

yeah, we were discussing it elsewhere on the forum, and it looks like the upper one have the head of a AIM-9D but it never enter service with french Crusader, so it might have been tested but not accepted.

Yes I mentionned it on the other topic 

[Abaddon75 460]

here : http://saspozatlse.free.fr/ANCIEN 09.html

Spoiler

an other group

Spoiler

 

I'm not sure if the last one could be a third good looking skin, or it's just like the second picture but the light and color contrast make the light grey looks darker

 

 

An other group of pic
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

and here a lot of them : http://jets.for.ever.pagesperso-orange.fr/Pages/F-8 FN.htm

If the quality is not good enough just precise that the pic is F-8 P

Edited January 12, 2021 by Abaddon75

[Cedjoe 5,482]

F-8E(FN) could get the grey, grey/white and blue camos, while the F-8P can only get the blue one. I don't think there are any others.

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

2 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

F-8E(FN) could get the grey, grey/white and blue camos, while the F-8P can only get the blue one. I don't think there are any others.

That's exactly it. 

[Abaddon75 460]

8 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

F-8E(FN) could get the grey, grey/white and blue camos, while the F-8P can only get the blue one. I don't think there are any others.

for me it looks like a white or very light grey anyway, they are all beautyfull

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Imo the F-8E(FN) would be a decent fighter at 10.3 with 2 magics as best loadout, even though it doesn't have flares and RWR. The F-8P can wait but should be one of the first planes added once all-aspect missiles are in-game, since it will be one of the rare planes with all-aspect missiles and no way to counter them.

6 minutes ago, Abaddon75 said:

for me it looks like a white or very light grey anyway, they are all beautyfull

Yeah it depends on the pictures, the lighting and how old the paint on the aircraft is I guess.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Cedjoe

[Abaddon75 460]

a site talking about squadrons (with really nice pics)

https://www.escadrilles.org/histoire-et-histoires/la-12f-sur-reacteur-1/

 

I've noted something, very small but worth noticing, on the 2 colour camo, there is no antenna on top of the cockpit, while when it get monochromatic camo, they have one, in fact 2 antenna, one yellow, and one white that have something in the end. The first one is only fitted on F-8E and the later one is fitted on all the F-8P (afaik). I'm not a specialist, so I can't tell what's the differences and what it bring to the table technology wise, but what I can say is that we have a third 3D model, that show at least 3 modernisation before the final P version

Edited January 12, 2021 by Abaddon75

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

2 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

a site talking about squadrons (with really nice pics)

https://www.escadrilles.org/histoire-et-histoires/la-12f-sur-reacteur-1/

 

I've noted something, very small but worth noticing, on the 2 colour camo, there is no antenna on top of the cockpit, while when it get monochromatic camo, they have one, in fact 2 antenna, one yellow, and one white that have something in the end. The first one is only fitted on F-8E and the later one is fitted on all the F-8P (afaik). I'm not a specialist, so I can't tell what's the differences and what it bring to the table technology wise, but what I can say is that we have a third 3D model, that show at least 3 modernisation before the final P version

The 8P modernisation added or upgraded:

RWR

TACAN/ILS

GPS

RADAR SYSTEM (improvement) 

New Electrical implementation. 

 

So the antenna might be related to TACAN and GPS. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Abaddon75 460]

2 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

The 8P modernisation added or upgraded:

RWR

FLARES/CHAFFS

TACAN/ILS

GPS

RADAR SYSTEM (improvement) 

 

So the antenna might be related to TACAN and GPS. 

FLARES/CHAFFS? where? we should be able to see them, do you have source or picture showing that? cause France desperatly need those and having Magic 2s mean a high Br so the P will need this feature even more

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,789]

20 minutes ago, Abaddon75 said:

FLARES/CHAFFS? where? we should be able to see them, do you have source or picture showing that? cause France desperatly need those and having Magic 2s mean a high Br so the P will need this feature even more

Sorry fake info,... I messed up, confusing Mirage III's and F8's topics. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Abaddon75 460]

Aaaaw T-T

Edited January 12, 2021 by Abaddon75

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Yeah french F-8s never had any true counter-measures

Edited January 12, 2021 by Cedjoe

[Abaddon75 460]

http://www.netmarine.net/aero/aeronefs/crusader/index.htm

so basically until circa 1978 they had their original US cammo change by uniform light grey, and get those yellow antenna, before getting their final camo grey/blue in the end of the 80's.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Abaddon75

[Bringer_Of_War 901]

+1 very cool jet and it'd be good to have more powerful engines in our arsenal 

 

[Cedjoe 5,482]

It looks like the last R.530s were retired right before the F-8P upgraded happened in 1989, which means the F-8P could technically only have access to the Magic 2, and possibly the Magic 1 as first missile.

[Abaddon75 460]

1 hour ago, Cedjoe said:

It looks like the last R.530s were retired right before the F-8P upgraded happened in 1989, which means the F-8P could technically only have access to the Magic 2, and possibly the Magic 1 as first missile.

Are you sure? on Wiki-pee-dia they say 1991, also there is R.530 F and D pretty sure they were not used on it but I'm not against a little more to help the P upgrade

Edited January 29, 2021 by Abaddon75