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Leopard 2A7


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Leopard 2A7  

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  1. 1. Should the Leopard 2A7 be added?

    • Yes
      212
    • No
      39


 

Leopard 2A7 

The next leap forward in Leopard 2's development

a334f20f.jpg

I know what some of you may be thinking; “is he mad or is he just crazy”, first, hear me out, this is just a suggestion for Gaijin to make a bit more shekels ;)

 

Also, just so you know, this vehicle is a counterpart to more modern variants of vehicles that we have in the game. The most common names that are usually thrown around when the 2A7 is mentioned, are the M1A2 SEPv2 and T-90M and more (i.e Leclerc SXXI, Type 10 etc.)

 

Introduction

 

Leopard 2A7 is yet another vehicle that continues the famous (but also infamous) line of tanks that is the Leopard 2 family. First born in 2009 as a concept for an improvement of the Leopard 2A6M’s that were coming back from Canada, to finally became a staple of German armour engineering ‘till the latter Leopard 2A7V variant came to be in the year 2019.

 

So, how is it exactly better compared to the previous Leopard 2s?

 

What makes the Leopard 2A7 stand out the most when compared to the previous variants is its external look. Some of the things that look completely different to the previous variants are:

  • APU

  • Back of the turret was rebuilt to accomodate for the A/C

  • Right side of the engine bay is slightly raised

 

Examples:

APU:

RsIwTUDySj3Hu3LFB1ymJCJqe-S_GanBosk3jHKV

 

The A/C + the newly rebuilt back of the turret.

hwx6g6iBpml4mN9uqbpU7RhCRdt54pch4lf_3_-4

qV-LhIRqqjpW_ti1SMdm7q-28Gcruxsrf3HawpsN

 

Other improvements include the fitting of a new thermal imager for the commander, dubbed ATTICA. Hendoldt's third generation ATTICA thermal imager was designed as a modular family, coming in different shapes and sizes (i.e. small, medium and large detector arrays), which is the standard approach on the market today. As common with third generation thermal imagers, they are available either based on CMT or InSb, i.e. in different wave-lengths.

bx7bfsyMk_xyOrdPv1zQ9CGig-8owCgFt0MtC4Q9

 

 

 

The hidden to the eye changes.

 

I’m sure this is the most exciting for everyone who came here, in this section here, we will dwell into the hidden secrets of the Leopard 2A7, mainly speaking, just how capable is its armour.

 

For starters, we need to prove that its armour is any different from the older Leopard 2A6M variant, for that, we seek the help of the ever-so-knowledgeable, Jane Article;

https://web.archive.org/web/20150501043922/http://www.janes.com/article/46904/germany-receives-first-leopard-2a7-mbt

 

As stated here, the Leopard 2A7 is equipped with the latest generation passive armour.

We get some hints when it comes to its composition, namely, it is being said that the armour includes Titanium, nano-ceramics, cutting edge steel alloys as well as Tungsten.

 

armor_materials.png?width=213&height=166

 

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2a7.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2#Leopard_2A7

 

With this out of our way, we can get to the general introduction of the armour. It is without a doubt, a massive improvement over the older C-technology armour that the all the previous variants would sport, but, by how much is it actually better.

 

We can very roughly estimate it by taking a look at the Swedish Trials; as the D-technology package, previously used in the turrets of the Leopard 2A5 and 2A6, mounted to the hull could provide between ~560 to 580mm RHAe vs KE as interpreted from the Swedish graphs:

image.thumb.png.c9fabe7053491714b45a6748

 

This below is for Leopard 2A7 currently in service.

 

New info: per Ralph Zwilling, Leopard 2A7Vs (the ones upgraded from 2A6s and newly built) are having their internal armour packages replaced with the ones in D-technology, 2A7s are not as they already have it, thus the estimate written above is wrong and instead refer to the graph. New estimate is much lower than the OG one and would make the 2A7 a little more balanced that originally suggested.

- hull: ~560 - 600mm KE

- turret: ~680 - 720mm KE (naked)

 

Outside of the main armour improvements, new side-skirts were fitted and the belly-plate retained from the previous model’s upgrade.

EFJMnygWkAAgGR6.jpg

 

Additional side armour had also been added

CSqF-8zdEwl0jo96doBr4meR2byLu-G_CyrXGSbt

 

 

Firepower

 

The tank is still equipped with the Rheinmetall 120mm L/55 cannon, however, there were some changes done to allow the tank to fire the new and programmable DM11 HE-FS round (already present in the game for the Leopard 2PL). DM63 is the new variant of the older DM53 round. It was developed because DM53 was shown to be very susceptible to temperature changes that would result in massive spikes in the pressure during firing that could, potentially, lead to damages of the cannon/the breach system. DM12A1 is, nothing new, just everybody’s beloved HEAT-FS round.

 

The main munition’s at tank disposal are:

 

  • DM63/63A1 APFSDS

  • DM11 HE-FS

  • DM12A1 HEAT-FS

    Spoiler

    unknown.png?width=122&height=640

     

    EuH0SsvWQAEQ-jA.jpg

     

    120DM11HE.jpg

 

An important detail about DM63 is that, according to the test published in this pdf, the chances of it exploding when hit have been minimized which in turn greatly enchances the survivability of vehicles using them.

http://tank.gamesound.eu/files/DM_63_test_8Vogelsanger.pdf?id=14281352685

 

Mobility

 

 

The engine of this vehicle is still the good ol’ MTU MB 873 Ka-501 liquid cooled V12 twin-turbo diesel engine capable of producing 1500hp at 2600 rpm that is coupled with the Renk HSWL 354 transmission. However, due to the mass increase of the tank from ~62.5 tons to nearly ~64.5 tons, the tactical mobility of the tank had to slightly decrease. The engine and transmission still provide a pretty good acceleration, however slower than the previous variants, with a reasonable estimate of between 7s to 8s for the AFV to perform a cold 0 - 32kph and a top speed off-road around ~51kph and on-road of ~68kph.

 

It should be kept in mind that, thanks to the APU, it is possible to keep the tank supplied with power to operate its sights, turret drive, gun drive as well as other electronic components with the engine turned off.

 

Sources

https://web.archive.org/web/20150501043922/http://www.janes.com/article/46904/germany-receives-first-leopard-2a7-mbt

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_2a7.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2#Leopard_2A7

https://www.hensoldt.net/products/optronics/peri-r17-a3/-rtwl/

http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=2980

http://tank.gamesound.eu/files/DM_63_test_8Vogelsanger.pdf?id=14281352685

- information update, wieght of the tank is actually 63.9 metric tons per this official Bundeswehr site: https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/ausruestung-technik-bundeswehr/landsysteme-bundeswehr/leopard-2

Photo Dump

Spoiler

Leopard-2A7-678x381.jpg

leopard_2a7.jpg

d7911eb5dd73e4297faa2e85fc622d2a.jpg

vrsn6lhru9s21.jpg

Edited by YuyukoSaigyouji_
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57 minutes ago, ItssLuBu said:

Approved and open for discussion. :salute:

Thanks!

 

4 minutes ago, Yedidya said:

Penetration for DM63 vs DM53 should be the same if I am not mistaken

Yes, their penetration would likely remain the same. In WT, it'd be just a name change.

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19 minutes ago, Zeluar said:

Yes, their penetration would likely remain the same. In WT, it'd be just a name change.

DM63 cannot explode when hit, which would be a large change in survivability

On 10/07/2021 at 17:42, Zeluar said:

It should be kept in mind that, thanks to the APU, it is possible to keep the tank supplied with power to operate its sights, turret drive, gun drive as well as other electronic components with the engine turned off.

Ah yes, the "lets model it as horizontal drive but dont give it any actual functionality" device we already know from Gepard and Type 87

On 10/07/2021 at 17:42, Zeluar said:

Other improvements include the fitting of a new thermal imager for the commander, dubbed ATTICA. Hendoldt's third generation ATTICA thermal imager was designed as a modular family, coming in different shapes and sizes (i.e. small, medium and large detector arrays), which is the standard approach on the market today. As common with third generation thermal imagers, they are available either based on CMT or InSb, i.e. in different wave-lengths.

bx7bfsyMk_xyOrdPv1zQ9CGig-8owCgFt0MtC4Q9

 

heres also the datasheet for the PERI (sadly Hensoldt doesnt have this for EMES-15 or Attica GL)

Spoiler

 

I wonder if the 2A7V adding the addon armor we already know from the Strv 122 should be a new vehicle or a modification for this

Edited by L963
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2 minutes ago, L963 said:

DM63 cannot explode when hit, which would be a large change in survivability

Ah yes, the "lets model it as horizontal drive but dont give it any actual functionality" device we already know from Gepard and Type 87

heres also the datasheet for the PERI (sadly Hensoldt doesnt have this for EMES-15 or Attica GL)

Hide contents

 

I wonder if the 2A7V adding the addon armor we already know from the Strv 122 should be a new vehicle or a modification for this

 

There is even more changes between 2A7V and 2A7 (gunner thermals e.g. or different gun and ammo)

 

We shouldn't forget that those resolutions are also for smaller displays, hence it should be adapted to resolutions we have on computer monitors (also an issue in the thermals for the 2PL ... datasheet stated "smaller resolutions" despite it being 3rd Generation Thermal Imager; but Gaijin went after the resolution and interpolating it to large screens, which imo is just wrong)

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6 minutes ago, L963 said:

DM63 cannot explode when hit, which would be a large change in survivability

Added :salute:

 

6 minutes ago, L963 said:

heres also the datasheet for the PERI (sadly Hensoldt doesnt have this for EMES-15 or Attica GL)

Reveal hidden contents

 

I wonder if the 2A7V adding the addon armor we already know from the Strv 122 should be a new vehicle or a modification for this

Since you've posted it here, i don't see a reason for me too actually copy-paste it into my post. Thanks too.

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2 minutes ago, Yedidya said:

There is even more changes between 2A7V and 2A7 (gunner thermals e.g. or different gun and ammo)

mhh, your probably right

2 minutes ago, Yedidya said:

We shouldn't forget that those resolutions are also for smaller displays, hence it should be adapted to resolutions we have on computer monitors (also an issue in the thermals for the 2PL ... datasheet stated "smaller resolutions" despite it being 3rd Generation Thermal Imager; but Gaijin went after the resolution and interpolating it to large screens, which imo is just wrong)

totally, yes. The highest thermal resolution I have seen is the Puma's gunner sight with 1280x720, which still is somewhat compared to the full HD to 4k screens we use

8 minutes ago, Zeluar said:

Added :salute:

thanks

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12 minutes ago, L963 said:

totally, yes. The highest thermal resolution I have seen is the Puma's gunner sight with 1280x720, which still is somewhat compared to the full HD to 4k screens we use

I've also heard of these resolutions: 640 x 512 detector array, while the large one offers a 1,280 x 1,024 detector array (medium and large respectively).

Edited by Zeluar
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1 hour ago, Yedidya said:

GIB! :)

Would be a great combination with e.g. M1A2 SEP v2, T-90M, Leclerc SXXI and others

 

Penetration for DM63 vs DM53 should be the same if I am not mistaken


Yes! I just want armor to become relevant again at top tier, and Leopard 2A7, as well as those tanks you mention, would be a good step.

 

Yep, DM63 pens the same as DM53; it pretty much is a DM53 with a new temperature-independent propulsion system, which gameplay wise wouldn’t make a difference.

1 hour ago, L963 said:

I wonder if the 2A7V adding the addon armor we already know from the Strv 122 should be a new vehicle or a modification for this


New vehicle, new vehicle! The more tanks with good armor in a lineup, the better!

 

1 hour ago, L963 said:

DM63 cannot explode when hit, which would be a large change in survivability


Interesting!

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2 hours ago, L963 said:

DM63 cannot explode when hit, which would be a large change in survivability

Ah yes, the "lets model it as horizontal drive but dont give it any actual functionality" device we already know from Gepard and Type 87

heres also the datasheet for the PERI (sadly Hensoldt doesnt have this for EMES-15 or Attica GL)

Reveal hidden contents

 

I wonder if the 2A7V adding the addon armor we already know from the Strv 122 should be a new vehicle or a modification for this

 

2A7V has applique armor, yes, but little bit different compared to Strv 122. It didn't have turret roof applique armor, only hull upper front applique armor

p1742636.thumb.jpg.9b3284016c1ed921eaa9e

@ZeluarLeopard 2A7 series might not have mobility decreasion, as it has new final drive.

Edited by im_blind_idiot
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3 hours ago, Yedidya said:

GIB! :)

Would be a great combination with e.g. M1A2 SEP v2, T-90M, Leclerc SXXI and others

Pretty much this

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-Its too soon for it to be added. Maybe in 2-3 years. I did not vote against it though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Inaccent_Shork said:

great idea, i suggest we release it alongside with the release of another mbt for other nation

 

Except russia, they have more than enough

Leipard 2a6 and to some extent 2a5 are already superior to most other mbt in the game. Germany does not need this now. 

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1 hour ago, Tantor57 said:

-Its too soon for it to be added. Maybe in 2-3 years. I did not vote against it though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leipard 2a6 and to some extent 2a5 are already superior to most other mbt in the game. Germany does not need this now. 

 

 

Too soon for the Leopard 2A7 to be added? Would you be fine with the Leclerc SXXI, T-90M or M1A2 SEP v2 to be added this year or even next patch?

 

I always find it amusing when people do the following

 

a) use the word "need" ... super cringe... no nation needs anything new in this game; people want something new, but the need isn't there

b) when people talk about vehicles they have not played a single match in... in your case your highest German vehicle is a Leopard A1A1 ... far away from Leopard 2A5 and 2A6 ... let me enlighten you a bit with some stats

 

obviously those are from the only source available to us, and yes, they are to be taken with a grain of salt, but they are in my humble opinion a good indicator of the current trend in this game

 

following Google spreadsheet is updated almost daily since the 24th of June and tracks the average statistics of all nations MBTs from 10.0 and upwards; the statistics tracked are always the average of the past 30 days on that day/moment they are tracked

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zG-4XdPHZkY3vKPMAGA3FvIKtBOQR-HWzwdW1DkMfps/edit?usp=sharing

 

- the Leopard 2A5 has out of all BR 11.0 vehicles the lowest win rate with 40.75%

- the T-80BVM has 75.63%

- the Leclerc S1 has 51.63% (btw also much higher ground frags per battle and ground frags per death)

- the Leclerc S2 has 52.55% (same here with ground frags per battle and ground frags per death)

- the M1A2 has 43.57%

 

- heck even the Ariete PSO sits much higher and the Challenger 2 (2F)

- interesting fact is also, the Leopard 2A6 with its 46.38% isn't much better either and the 4th lowest BR 11.0 MBT

 

One-shot-killing a Leopard 2A5 or Leopard 2A6 in the hull is much more reliable and easier than one-shot-killing e.g. a T-80BVM, T-80U or T-72B3

 

So your claim that Leopard 2A5 and 2A6 are already superior to most other MBT in the game at their respective tier is simply incorrect. There is a reason why Gaijin thinks it is suitable to give the Leopard 2A5 the DM43, which should show you, those Thunderskill stats are somewhat trustworthy.

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I find it interesting that people seem to assume that people think because a suggestion was made, Gajin will immidiately implement this vehicle. The 2A7 is wellknown enough that Gajin would implement it no matter if a suggestion was made or not. This is pretty much just to tell players about the vehicle and maybe find some details that Gajin wouldnt have been aware of.

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