Tanks/Vehicles Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus

[Master0M0Master 164]

Please read the thread and the thoughts of the community first before voting, thank you :)

 

 

At first I want to say sorry for my bad english.

 

 

Please Note:

 

I dont want do start any flamewar.

This suggestian is just about the PzKpfW VIII Maus and its "ingame-usability" or if it should be ingame.

Please dont start Off-Topic flames.

Thank you for your patience

Edit: Added Poll

 

 

 

 

What is the Maus

 

The PzKpfW VIII Maus (Panzerkampfwagen 8 Maus - Armoured Fighting Vehicle 8 Mouse) is a "Superheavy" Tank that got into development, because Hitler wanted to see even bigger tanks than the Tiger or King Tiger with even bigger guns. If it would have been usefull can just be speculation, some say it wouldnt and some say it would, so i wont discuss its "reallife usefullness" here^^

 

 

Bigger guns? Tell me more about it!

 

The Maus had "main" guns mounted in its turred. The "main main" gun was a 128 mm Pak 44 L/55, the same the Jagdtiger used, and the secound gun was a 75 mm Pak 44 L/36.5 right beneath the "main main" gun.

 

Here you can see both guns

 

Weight, Size, Armor, Engine

 

 

First some schematics:

 

   

 

 

 

The Maus was maned by a crew of 6.

The frontal glacis plate is 200 mm thick, due to the fact that it is slopped at an angle of 35 degree its effective armor is 460 mm.

Side armor thickness is 180 mm and rear armor thickness is 160 mm.

The front of the Turret was 240 mm thick, with an approximately 250 mm thick mantlet.

Side and rear of the turret got a real armor of 200 mm with the fact that they where slopped the effect armour of both where 230 mm.

 

Weight:

185 Tons

 

Engine:

Depending on the building status of the Maus:

1:Daimler-Benz DB 603 V12 with 1080 hp

2: MB 517 V12 with 1200 hp

 

With both engine the Maus reached an approximately speed of about 20 km/h on a street, and 8-13 km/h offroad.

 

Lenght:

10.2 m

 

Width:

3.71 m

 

Height:

3.63 m

 

For imagining purposes how big it was:

 

 

 

 

 

Two of these giants where finished and tested. At the end of the war the Germans blow up one, but the secound one was Captured and is now in the Tank Museum of Kubinka

 

5 more where in the building stage.

 

 

 

Now my thought to this ingame^^

 

The Maus would be the "last" or "top tier" tank in german Heavy Tank line, so a Tier 5 Tank with an approximatly rating of something between 7-8.

(woa that was much hu?^^)

 

 

What are your thoughts guys?

I am open for everything except flame

 

Sources:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerkampfwagen_VIII_Maus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VIII_Maus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler-Benz_DB_603

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_Pak_44#Variants

http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/PANZERKAMPFWAGEN%20VIII%20MAUS.htm

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html

 

Regards

Master-M-Master

[Smin1080p 60,444]

Considering this is properly structured and i can tell you have at least taken the time to be logical, I will open this for discussion as it can do no harm.

 

But this thread will be moderated, so I advise you all to stay on topic

[SubRyan 5,556]

No to regular tree inclusion, but might be useful as an late era premium once Korean War era Soviet and US tanks are put in

[Katychen 1,094]

Senio said a while back(Early CBT stages), that it is not dead certain it is not being put in.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Watersnake32

[PanzerAce 1,135]

I would take the Maus any day over a Tiger 2 with a 105. This tank would have to be Tier 5, and Tier 5 premiums are a HUGE no-no, so it would have to be in the regular tree. 

 

Any tank is very easy to attack from the air. Maus is no different. I hope we will see it. 

[SupermarioPS 5,374]

My favourite pillbox.

With one weakpoint: No 8,8 Flak ;_;

btw: found another pic of it in action!

:Ps :Ps :Ps :Ps :Ps :Ps

Edited May 11, 2014 by SupermarioPS

[Boceto 3,666]

I don't see how this tank would be useful in the way the CBT currently plays out. The Maus is just too slow, you'd barely see any enemies in most games, it'd be a boring tank to play and it would damage the current dynamic gameplay.

I wouldn't mind if Gaijin added it, but other tanks should have priority.

[_Haydn_ 5,476]

I really am 50/50 on having a Maus. One part of me really wants it because its a really unique tank and would be amazing to drive. Plus I wouldn't have to play WoT if i wanted to drive one. But the other is thinking this thing is just too big, and would just ruin end game matches. 

[Armyguy 830]

One small bit its only 9m in length the 10m is w/gun.

[rainbowtwo 335]

i think that this kind of tanks belong to the lower eras. you can have a not so useful tank in the lower eras but i think its not good to put this kind of tank in the end game matches. that being said i would love to have it in game even with the troubles it might cause

[ledinis 543]

Would love to see it in game, but not sure about its overall usefulness. Yeah the armor is insane, but getting around with a tank that goes 10-12 km/h would be a pain in the ass. Couple that with its size and the fact that every bomber would notice it from 10 miles away, i see it as a very team dependent tank.    

[DasMoss 515]

War Thunder needs a limiter for certain Vehicles and Aircraft. (*cough* As much as I love it, the Komet *cough*)

It would not be fun to see a full enemy team of Maus tanks. One thing I could see good coming out of the Maus is the fact that it may encourage actual teamplay.

(Teamplay?! Wow I know right?!) Hopefully the other team would attempt to formulate a plan to distract and flank the Maus. For the whole speed thing, Its the disadvantage is has so what. Many tanks have great advatages and great disadvantages. It has a Great armament and good frontal armor. It wouldn't take a mad scientist to show that the best and easiest way to knock out the Maus would be to have your T54s race over behind it while heavier tanks keep it distracted. It would be a fun concept to see in game. I would also like to point out that there are rumors that the Maus actually did get to see action in the moments its factory was attacked. Many say it didn't fight back, many say it did. I know If I was an officer back then I would definitely hide the fact that a large bunker sized tank began to open fire on our troops. With that said it could be likely that it did see SOME combat and said fight was essentially a hidden secret in an attempt to not falter Morale. Its turret was shot off by an ISU-152 correct? That definitely would be a large sign of struggle. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by DasMoss

[Raptor425 1,030]

I would love to have the Maus in game. Yes other tanks would need to take precedence (IE at least the beginnings of the tech trees for all the nations) but it would be a nice addition. As for "It would be to slow" or "It would be vulnerable to aircraft" arguments, I don't get it  :dntknw:. If it is slow, it would just take patience to play (something a lot of gamers seem to lack) so there would only be a certain group of people who want to play it (so it wouldn't be spammed) and that also balances it out. You can't race around the map killing everything in sight and it would take tactics to play. As for vulnerable to aircraft, all tanks are. Naval aircraft managed to completely wipe out an entire class of naval vessel so of course tanks are gonna be vulnerable to aircraft. If a battleship can't hold up to aircraft, tanks wouldn't be able to once they were spotted. 

 

 

Also the Maus in the museum is a mixing of two variants of the Maus. It has the V1 hull and V2 turret I believe.

[Kempston 342]

well it existed and was ready for battle so I see no reason why it shouldn't be implemented

[Master0M0Master 164]

I really am 50/50 on having a Maus. One part of me really wants it because its a really unique tank and would be amazing to drive. Plus I wouldn't have to play WoT if i wanted to drive one. But the other is thinking this thing is just too big, and would just ruin end game matches. 

 

Please explain your thoughts. Why would it ruin endgame matches?

 

Regards

Master-M-Master :salute:

[Shootandmiss 824]

NO MAUS.

 

Why ?

 

Because if you accept the Maus, you have to accept the E 100.  And BAAAANG  you have the same idiotic rubbish like in WoT. Some of the used tank models in WT are already let me say hypothetical , and this should be enough.

 

the mause was tested only with a WEIGHT turret, without armament, never was wroking as a real acting tank, with firing on life range. so EVERYTHING about the characteristics of the mouse are hypothetical. and this is, what it has in common with any other blueprint tank . 

 

there are a lot of possibilities to make this game interesting for a long time without

[Boceto 3,666]

NO MAUS.

 

Why ?

 

Because if you accept the Maus, you have to accept the E 100.  And BAAAANG  you have the same idiotic rubbish like in WoT. Some of the used tank models in WT are already let me say hypothetical , and this should be enough.

 

the mause was tested only with a WEIGHT turret, without armament, never was wroking as a real acting tank, with firing on life range. so EVERYTHING about the characteristics of the mouse are hypothetical. and this is, what it has in common with any other blueprint tank . 

 

there are a lot of possibilities to make this game interesting for a long time without

I'm not a major fan of the Maus either but your points mean absolutely nothing.

The Maus was tested and it worked, not particularly well but no German late-war tank really did, which is already a significant difference to the E-100, which never had a completed protoype.

And if you're worried about lack of data on the gun, it was the same as that of the Jagdtiger, so no problem there. So I don't see how all the data would be hypothetical...

[Tokarson 435]

Great static target for bombers.

[Master0M0Master 164]

 

so EVERYTHING about the characteristics of the mouse are hypothetical. and this is, what it has in common with any other blueprint tank . 

 

there are a lot of possibilities to make this game interesting for a long time without

 

Thats wrong, they had a working Prototype, and it is not hypothetical as there are, for example, facts known like armour thickniss, degrees of the slopped armour, gun stats (both guns where used in other tanks)

So you have to different between a blueprint and a prototype.

With your way of arguing the Polikarpow I-185 would also be a blueprint, and it definitly was/ is not!

 

Great static target for bombers.

 

What fast and agile T-34 is not a great target for a bomber? I killed dozens of T-34 with my bombers, even driving ones. Until now i have just seen 1 or 2 tank players trying to avoid the bombrun, and thats it due to the fact that nearly no player in a "combat" tank watches out for enemy planes.

And if i kill a standing T-34 or a driving mouse with my 1000kg bomb, where would be the difference?

 

I think this tank would give tank battles an interesting aspect, because you would force the players to reconsider : "how do i kill this thing?" because you cant simply kill it by shoting at its front, since there would be nearly no tank that could pen the front of the mouse if the shot is not very, very well placed.

So those who have the maus as an enemy would have to work as a team to kill it, at least imho.

 

Regards

Master-M-Master

[Pony51 6,572]

Maus was built, it was intended to go into production, it is very real.

 

It fulfills the criteria for inclusion.

 

Will it be OP?

Was the Tiger and King Tiger OP?

KV-1 OP?

 

Maus can be defeated, it is not invincible (in fact, player will probably break then tracks or get it stuck on rock and be surrounded by other heavy tanks.

[Shootandmiss 824]

I'm not a major fan of the Maus either but your points mean absolutely nothing.

The Maus was tested and it worked, not particularly well but no German late-war tank really did, which is already a significant difference to the E-100, which never had a completed protoype.

And if you're worried about lack of data on the gun, it was the same as that of the Jagdtiger, so no problem there. So I don't see how all the data would be hypothetical...

the mouse was in kummersdorf in cross country tests, with most of the time a dummy weight turret.  in 1944 the project was cancelled. it never made as a complete system shots, nor does it reach READYNESS status. imo the fact, that something was drawn or tested is not the reason to push it somewhere ingame. for example i like, that the me 163 realy was working in the frontline. the go 229 already is imo a sweet for the community, but the wrong step. the same gun does not mean the same charakteristics, this you know of course. a tank always is a complete system. one thing is, what was planned, ond the other, which has been in field service. and i hope, that they are not doing the same fault like WG and adding phantasy models instead to use the uge amount of possibilities of real existing. so to disappoint you : the mouse was nothing more but an test object in kummersdorf, and imo this is not a reason to ad it to the game. ( so where are the turning characteristics of the turret, the turning of the chassis, how much time to move the gun up and down, what with the secondary weapon....

[DrArroganto 0]

NO MAUS.

 

Why ?

 

Because if you accept the Maus, you have to accept the E 100.  And BAAAANG  you have the same idiotic rubbish like in WoT. Some of the used tank models in WT are already let me say hypothetical , and this should be enough.

 

the mause was tested only with a WEIGHT turret, without armament, never was wroking as a real acting tank, with firing on life range. so EVERYTHING about the characteristics of the mouse are hypothetical. and this is, what it has in common with any other blueprint tank . 

 

there are a lot of possibilities to make this game interesting for a long time without

It´s complete bs that the introduction of prototypes or blueprint-tanks will make this game anything like world of tanks ... they are esentially different types of games and i am sure that gaijin would be able to implement such tanks properly if they decided to do so.

While i personally wouldn´t have a problem with the Maus being in game it would be very limited in it´s playstyle and rather useless on certain maps and modes ... therefore, assumed it was ever implemented, it can certainly not be the only german max tier vehicle.


Thing is, the german tech tree will, sooner or later, need some additional high tier vehicles to deal with whatever the allies will get.
While I think that german late war tanks will NEVER be at such a huge disadvantage against allied "post war" machinery, as the jets were, we probably can´t avoid either adding blueprint tanks or imported vehicles.

And i certainly prefer the E-series over those unrealistic abominations currently in game every day, because they are on the one hand more realistic and absolutely capable of dealing with "post war" tanks.

... at least something that very likely would have worked as intended if they had the time to build it is better for me than something that is proven not to work.
 

[Boceto 3,666]

Maus was built, it was intended to go into production, it is very real.
 
It fulfills the criteria for inclusion.
 
Will it be OP?
Was the Tiger and King Tiger OP?
KV-1 OP?
 
Maus can be defeated, it is not invincible (in fact, player will probably break then tracks or get it stuck on rock and be surrounded by other heavy tanks.

While all of this is true I still think the Maus would take the pace out of high tier matches and neither driving it nor fighting it would be particularly enjoyable and thus doesn't really need to be added.

[Master0M0Master 164]

 and neither driving it nor fighting it would be particularly enjoyable and thus doesn't really need to be added.

 

Why wouldnt it be enjoyable? From which facts to you get this information?

Of course fighting a "hard to defeat" enemy is never funny, but neither is is with the KV-1 or Tiger and all the others if you look right into theire cannon-barrel .

And why wouldn it be fun to have this tank?
(no sarcasm sry, i really just dont understand your thoughts , could you explain them please :)  )

Regards

Master-M-Master

[Boceto 3,666]

Why wouldnt it be enjoyable? From which facts to you get this information?

Of course fighting a "hard to defeat" enemy is never funny, but neither is is with the KV-1 or Tiger and all the others if you look right into theire cannon-barrel .

And why wouldn it be fun to have this tank?
(no sarcasm sry, i really just dont understand your thoughts , could you explain them please :)  )

Regards

Master-M-Master

The speed. Having a few Mauses on your team will just slow your entire team down, of course this is not the only tank which would cause this but it doesn't make it better. The entire gameplay would be slower, you'd have less action, and you'll just get outflanked and killed when you see an enemy.