Ground vehicles Spahpanzer RU-251, German T5 light tank proposal

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

Open for discussion  :salute:​ 

 

When suggesting a new vehicle that has not been previously suggested or mentioned, your thread MUST contain the following:

 

1) Clear and relevant title specifically naming the vehicle you are suggesting

 

2) Correct tag for the type. EG: Aircraft use the “Aircraft/Loadouts” for tanks use the “Tanks/Vehicles” prefixes.

 

3) At least one or more images/photographs for people to see what you are suggesting

 

4) Basic background info on the tank, including its years of construction and service

 

5) Specifications for the vehicle

 

6) List of reference material such as literature/sources (books mainly) where the vehicle is covered

 

7) Performance data and armament for aircraft and tanks.

 

Smin please tell me how this passed? i've seen topics get denied for being more detailed than this?

Edited January 18, 2016 by *swanseasean96

[DoLhades 361]

I know Wargaming managed to get data from the German MoD, but the data is not published as of yet. I do know that a few historians have seen it too and have yet to publish, a prototype was definitely made, else photoshoppers have done a brilliant job.

 

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6947.0/nowap.html

 

While this is not the best link, it DOES mention the Spahpanzer far before Wargaming had even taken a look at it, however until more data is released, or found, I think Wargamings data is the best source to go by for now. They may not be the best, but they do get some things right. That website also mentions a book sourcing the Spahpanzer, may be worth trying to find a copy of.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Woah, I figured out why we aren't finding anything. The tank MAY have also been designated: "Spähpanzer SP I.C", or "Spähpanzer Kette". Even German wikipedia has an article with a similar looking tank, same caliber gun. However, as Hotchkiss helped with the production, it may well be in French archives too.

 

EDIT 2: It probably passed as this is a tank near impossible to get information on, I suppose this kind of one would rely on other players to help out

Edited January 18, 2016 by DoLhades

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

I know Wargaming managed to get data from the German MoD, but the data is not published as of yet. I do know that a few historians have seen it too and have yet to publish, a prototype was definitely made, else photoshoppers have done a brilliant job.

 

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6947.0/nowap.html

 

While this is not the best link, it DOES mention the Spahpanzer far before Wargaming had even taken a look at it, however until more data is released, or found, I think Wargamings data is the best source to go by for now. They may not be the best, but they do get some things right. That website also mentions a book sourcing the Spahpanzer, may be worth trying to find a copy of.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Woah, I figured out why we aren't finding anything. The tank MAY have also been designated: "Spähpanzer SP I.C", or "Spähpanzer Kette". Even German wikipedia has an article with a similar looking tank, same caliber gun. However, as Hotchkiss helped with the production, it may well be in French archives too.

 

i already posted a link to the SP 1c it looks nothing like it

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by *swanseasean96

[SmartSkull007 2,991]

When suggesting a new vehicle that has not been previously suggested or mentioned, your thread MUST contain the following:

1) Clear and relevant title specifically naming the vehicle you are suggesting

2) Correct tag for the type. EG: Aircraft use the “Aircraft/Loadouts” for tanks use the “Tanks/Vehicles” prefixes.

3) At least one or more images/photographs for people to see what you are suggesting

4) Basic background info on the tank, including its years of construction and service

5) Specifications for the vehicle

6) List of reference material such as literature/sources (books mainly) where the vehicle is covered

7) Performance data and armament for aircraft and tanks.

Smin please tell me how this passed? im kinda confused

The information has not been released to the public yet. You can ask WG for information on it.
Also, couldn't you be constructive and use 20 seconds of your life and search "Spahpanzer RU 251" and then flick to google images? Edited January 18, 2016 by Shatter12

[DoLhades 361]

Well nonetheless the development looks to be related, seeing as they have the same gun and a similar look... Perhaps in that respect, it could also be a suggestion for adding, as the predecessor to the RU

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

The information has not been released to the public yet. You can ask WG for information on it.
Also, couldn't you be constructive and use 20 seconds of your life and search "Spahpanzer RU 251"?

 

i have if you read my post i found two other AFVs that did exist

Well nonetheless the development looks to be related, seeing as they have the same gun and a similar look... Perhaps in that respect, it could also be a suggestion for adding, as the predecessor to the RU

 

My point is i dont believe the RU existed

[SmartSkull007 2,991]

i have if you read my post i found two other AFVs that did exist


My point is i dont believe the RU existed

Why can't we have this one then? It existed. Just Google image it. Amazing how I found something within 20 seconds when I searched it up if it never existed, right?

[DoLhades 361]

i have if you read my post i found two other AFVs that did exist

 

My point is i dont believe the RU existed

 

Take a look at my prior quote, look for that book and we may well find out truly if it existed or not.

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

Why can't we have this one then? It existed. Just Google image it. Amazing how I found something within 20 seconds when I searched it up if it never existed, right?

 

why are you being so sarcastic and rude find me data on it and i will accept it existed

 

i can take a photo and edit a different turret on it and call it something else and post it on a forum it doesnt mean it existed!

[Retry 7,363]

why are you being so sarcastic and rude find me data on it and i will accept it existed

 

i can take a photo and edit a different turret on it and call it something else and post it on a forum it doesnt mean it existed!

Asking for data on the vehicle is valid.

Ignoring the numerous historical photographs of the tank crying "Photoshop!", however, is not.

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

I have found a few sources on it im scanning through them now i will post anything relevant and change my vote if i believe it is of relevance ill let you all know!

Asking for data on the vehicle is valid.

Ignoring the numerous historical photographs of the tank crying "Photoshop!", however, is not.

 

Asking for data on the vehicle is valid.

Ignoring the numerous historical photographs of the tank crying "Photoshop!", however, is not.

 

i didnt cry photoshop i said it was possible read from the start i only said that at the end when people just say secret documents which imo is BS

[Retry 7,363]

i didnt cry photoshop i said it was possible read from the start i only said that at the end when people just say secret documents which imo is BS

It's possible if you don't take the time (all of a minute) to do any digging at all.  Photoshopping is clearly not the case.

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

It's possible if you don't take the time (all of a minute) to do any digging at all.  Photoshopping is clearly not the case.

 

it appears im the only one doing any digging the OP was clearly lacking in specs

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

Right now then i have found somethings

 

it appears to have been called two different names which we established.

 

Spahpanzer RU-251 and Spähpanzer Kette

 

now here it gets interesting the original design of the hull appears to from France the book you were talking about ;)

 

edit: sorry different book atleast a secondary source though

 

 

"In the early 1950’s Hotchkiss in France developed a series of tracked vehicles under contract to the French Army. The French Army did not order any but the German Army, in urgent need of modern vehicles, tested the prototypes and placed an order for a series of vehicles. Some 2,000 vehicles saw service with the Germans, mainly the Schützenpanzer 11-2 reconnaissance vehicles along with mortar carrier, command vehicle, ambulance and cargo carrier variants. Many of these vehicles have been preserved, but they are beyond the scope of this book.

By the late 1950’s the SPz 11-2 design was overtaken when the German Army decided to develop a leichten Panzerfamilie (light armoured vehicle family). This consisted of a number of vehicles designed for different roles but all based on a common chassis. The vehicles comprising this family included a light tank and a tank destroyer. They also included a self-propelled anti-tank missile vehicle (the Jagdpanzer Rakete) and an armoured personnel carrier (the Marder Schützenpanzer) which are beyond the scope of this book."

 

here is where the Kette gets mentioned

 

"The leichten Panzerfamilie tank destroyer saw wide service as the Jagdpanzer Kanone while the light tank was developed as the Spähpanzer Kette (reconnaissance armoured vehicle tracked). The Spähpanzer Kette was designed to replace the Germany Army’s old American M41 light tanks in the reconnaissance role. Its development began in 1960 and a prototype was completed in 1963. It mounted a Rheinmetall turret armed with the 90mm Bordkanone as used in the Jagdpanzer Kanone.

By the middle of the 1960s the Leopard tank was in production and it was decided that reconnaissance units did not need their own specialist vehicles. The development of the Spähpanzer Kette was dropped without any further vehicles being built and its role was given over to the Leopard. With hindsight, this may have been a hasty move as the wheeled Spähpanzer Luchs was eventually developed to take back this role from the Leopard."

 

so it was dismmesed by the German army with atleast some prototypes built

 

good news is i have located two

 

both in germany in german museums not classified by german secret documents c*** just a lost forgotten prototype 

 

one is @ BWB Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung, Koblenz, Germany 

 

one is @  Panzermuseum, Munster, Germany 

 

oh yeah and it was made by Rheinmetall-Borsig

 

btw RU-251 = Ruhrstahl design number 251

 

now looking for some hard stats

Edited January 18, 2016 by *swanseasean96

[Retry 7,363]

it appears im the only one doing any digging the OP was clearly lacking in specs

Specific specifications are not necessary to prove existence.

E.G. this Kugelpanzer exists, but good luck finding any hard data on it.

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

Specific specifications are not necessary to prove existence.

E.G. this Kugelpanzer exists, but good luck finding any hard data on it.

 

and can we have that in game?

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

Specific specifications are not necessary to prove existence.

E.G. this Kugelpanzer exists, but good luck finding any hard data on it.

 

and by tthat logic

 

a "jagdchieftain" tank destroyer good luck finding any hard stats on it and if anyone suggested that for britain with this little information it would be shot down quicker than a Red Fox at a good ol' hunt.

Edited January 18, 2016 by *swanseasean96

[Atsuk0 392]

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/savoyskiy/15830433/1958/1958_600.jpg Translation of this image is as follows:

"A prototype of the Spähpanzer (recon tank) RU 251 by Hanomag in 1963 with a "90mm PzK" (literally 90mm tank gun)."

In essence, that more or less confirms it's directly based off Hanomag's JPz 4-5 design ad has the same 90mm panzerkanonen the 5-5 had. There ya go.

[Thiky 2,162]

+1  :salute:

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Thiky

[*Hubert-SRT 83]

Seems like a fun little piece of machinery

[Fallenkezef 5,183]

We need more non-soviet 7.7 tanks to balance out and fill the tier and it will help MM with more tanks and more options.

[*Hubert-SRT 83]

We need more non-soviet 7.7 tanks to balance out and fill the tier and it will help MM with more tanks and more options.

I agree.

[MortiCore 397]

I like the idea

[Coldt 1,170]

If this isn't on Gaijin's short list someone in the office isn't doing their blood job.

[Fallenkezef 5,183]

What this game desperately needs is more 7.7 tanks that are not soviet.

 

I'm not talking about any bias, it's numbers. There are 7 Soviet 7.7 tanks, compare that to the other nations.

 

This is why 6.7 is getting clubbed. If we had more options for the other nations we'd have a much better mm and less waiting times.