Even when you do well, it is hardly worth playing

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

First game I used a JU-88 A4 the entire time to destroy bases and no one attacked me.  That's a lucky event that will never happen again. 

What? That is no luck. I have done the whole air event this way. Ju88 was one of the best bombers at the time and surely is in game. Base bombing is for RP, not SL. You don't get rich. But you collect WAY MORE RP.

 

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

The 2nd game was all in the B-34 and I got lucky with "dogfighting" for the air to air kills.  About 1/3 to 2/3 of earnings goes into buying modifications.  Multiply that by an entire tech tree and it costs serious money for non-premium players.

Again, as others have told you, you only buy the modification once. If you don't plan on using the vehicle, skip it. Especially as non premium player.

 

 

[Razielkaine 4,876]

5 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

I don't know why it says 2 minutes.  I only had 2 planes but I was in the game much longer.  But, here's some better games with paltry rewards.  First game I used a JU-88 A4 the entire time to destroy bases and no one attacked me.  That's a lucky event that will never happen again.  The 2nd game was all in the B-34 and I got lucky with "dogfighting" for the air to air kills.  About 1/3 to 2/3 of earnings goes into buying modifications.  Multiply that by an entire tech tree and it costs serious money for non-premium players.

 

You can't just "multiply that by any tech tree" that's not how the game works. Your not taking into account the cash rewards, the fact they earn more the higher they go, actually winning a battle, boosters and more. Your new and have a real lack of experience and knowledge of the game. Instead of complaining just listen to the people who have entire tech trees and don't have money problems.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Razielkaine

[The4thAmigo 135]

7 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

You can't just "multiply that by any tech tree" that's not how the game works. Your not taking into account the cash rewards, the fact they earn more the higher they go, actually winning a battle, boosters and more. Your new and have a real lack of experience and knowledge of the game. Instead of complaining just listen to the people who have entire tech trees and don't have money problems.

Been here since 2013 so hardly a new player but a casual one.  I'm glad you are doing so well but I'm trying to demonstrate how hard the grind is for players that don't spend 10 hours a day in this game.  The players that don't have money problems are typically premium players or Youtubers.  By their previous comments I should be able to grind through an entire tree in a couple of weeks and get at least 2 or 3 planes in an hour.  This is not possible without sinking cash into the game.  So I'll accept my average of $1k net SL per game and in 180 games I'll get a single Tier V plane.  In 3,000 games I might finally earn a jet.

 

10 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

What? That is no luck. I have done the whole air event this way. Ju88 was one of the best bombers at the time and surely is in game. Base bombing is for RP, not SL. You don't get rich. But you collect WAY MORE RP.

 

Again, as others have told you, you only buy the modification once. If you don't plan on using the vehicle, skip it. Especially as non premium player.

 

 

 

We're forced to use planes we don't want as as the most efficient way to gain RP for the next plane in the tree.  Since you have to use them for up to 100 missions to get to the next plane you are forced to buy the mods to keep the plane competitive with the BR mismatching.  Gaining RP with bombers only effects the bomber tech tree.  It is not efficient to gain RP for fighters with a bomber.  Since bombers are useless I'm not investing any more into those trees.

Edited August 22, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[Razielkaine 4,876]

56 minutes ago, The4thAmigo said:

Been here since 2013 so hardly a new player but a casual one.  I'm glad you are doing so well but I'm trying to demonstrate how hard the grind is for players that don't spend 10 hours a day in this game.  The players that don't have money problems are typically premium players or Youtubers.  By their previous comments I should be able to grind through an entire tree in a couple of weeks and get at least 2 or 3 planes in an hour.  This is not possible without sinking cash into the game.  So I'll accept my average of $1k net SL per game and in 180 games I'll get a single Tier V plane.  In 3,000 games I might finally earn a jet.

 

 

We're forced to use planes we don't want as as the most efficient way to gain RP for the next plane in the tree.  Since you have to use them for up to 100 missions to get to the next plane you are forced to buy the mods to keep the plane competitive with the BR mismatching.  Gaining RP with bombers only effects the bomber tech tree.  It is not efficient to gain RP for fighters with a bomber.  Since bombers are useless I'm not investing any more into those trees.

Do what you will, you won't get far accepting what you get is the games fault and not your own, goes for more then just this game too.  My suggestion  is stop blaming the game when your having issues and look to what you can do differently, accept the people offering advice have been where you are and learned to be better and are trying to help you. If you don't want to get better then do us a favour and stop making posts/threads.

[anyuser 5,136]

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

Been here since 2013 so hardly a new player but a casual one.  I'm glad you are doing so well but I'm trying to demonstrate how hard the grind is for players that don't spend 10 hours a day in this game.  The players that don't have money problems are typically premium players or Youtubers. 

Prem players earn less SL for every XP they get.

So they grind modules and planes faster, without getting the same amount of SL you would get without prem doing the same thing (it takes more time without prem though).

 

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

This is not possible without sinking cash into the game.  So I'll accept my average of $1k net SL per game and in 180 games I'll get a single Tier V plane.  In 3,000 games I might finally earn a jet.

It is possible.

See this guy?

https://warthunder.com/en/community/userinfo/?nick=Kerry_Freeman

He is just throwing his planes with bombs strapped on at bases for less then 1000 battles and that guy is now flying a F4 Phantom.

 

The tactic is nothing i would advice because he is basically lawndarting and dying, but there is no way to do it more brainAFK.

 

And you will get more XP and SL at higher BRs because planes got higher Modifikators for both.

 

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

We're forced to use planes we don't want as as the most efficient way to gain RP for the next plane in the tree.  Since you have to use them for up to 100 missions to get to the next plane you are forced to buy the mods to keep the plane competitive with the BR mismatching.  Gaining RP with bombers only effects the bomber tech tree.  It is not efficient to gain RP for fighters with a bomber.  Since bombers are useless I'm not investing any more into those trees.

It isn't the "most efficient" way to use a plane with the research bonus, if you can't make use of that plane.

It is the most efficient way to use something you are good with as much as you can, as long it is only one tier below the plane you want to research.

 

 

And when it comes to shooting down stuff.

The reward you get for shooting something down is bound to the BR difference between you and him. If that plane is far below the BR of your plane, you get very low XP and SL.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

We're forced to use planes we don't want as as the most efficient way to gain RP for the next plane in the tree.

As has been said before, this is false. Use the planes you are good at and those you won talismans in. Or the premium ones you collected from the warbond store.

 

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

Since you have to use them for up to 100 missions to get to the next plane you are forced to buy the mods to keep the plane competitive with the BR mismatching.

If you need 100 missions to get the next plane with a Ju88, you are doing something really wrong. I have been using this plane to develop a crew during the event and have gained almost 100.000 RP that way. I might even have an ace crew when the event is over.

 

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

  Gaining RP with bombers only effects the bomber tech tree.

You also believe in Santa Clause?

 

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

  It is not efficient to gain RP for fighters with a bomber.  Since bombers are useless I'm not investing any more into those trees.

Hell yes. Look at your own income: You made about 2000 RP with the bombers and 700 RP with the fighter. Add optimistic 30% to 700 and you got 910. Now apply some deep analysis to which is better...

 

1 hour ago, Razielkaine said:

My suggestion  is stop blaming the game when your having issues and look to what you can do differently

Much ^this^

[The4thAmigo 135]

3 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

Do what you will, you won't get far accepting what you get is the games fault and not your own, goes for more then just this game too.  My suggestion  is stop blaming the game when your having issues and look to what you can do differently, accept the people offering advice have been where you are and learned to be better and are trying to help you. If you don't want to get better then do us a favour and stop making posts/threads.

 

I can't change the economics of the game.  I know I'm not the best player but when I do play well it doesn't seem to make a difference.  There's only so many videos from 2013 to 2017 you can try to emulate.  This "you suck, git gud or shut up" isn't helping.  Casual players deserve to know how the economics are stacked against them and I'm not the only one that thinks that.

 

I attempt to do all the correct things in all the tutorials, forum posts and old videos.  Avoiding furballs, going for planes slower than me, trying to avoid BF-109s, side climbing, using terrain to hide, boom and zoom, etc.  These are the results of that.

Edited August 22, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[The4thAmigo 135]

1 hour ago, Dodo_Dud said:

As has been said before, this is false. Use the planes you are good at and those you won talismans in. Or the premium ones you collected from the warbond store.

 

If you need 100 missions to get the next plane with a Ju88, you are doing something really wrong. I have been using this plane to develop a crew during the event and have gained almost 100.000 RP that way. I might even have an ace crew when the event is over.

 

You also believe in Santa Clause?

 

Hell yes. Look at your own income: You made about 2000 RP with the bombers and 700 RP with the fighter. Add optimistic 30% to 700 and you got 910. Now apply some deep analysis to which is better...

 

Much ^this^

 

I have no premium planes from the Warbond store nor have I ever been in a position to purchase one. I spent $6.00 on the game about 8 years ago for a DB-7 and DB-3, both low-tier bombers that don't last long in AB or RB.  Some Tier III planes are about 150,000 SL not including crew transfer fee.  Tier IV and V cost 180kSL and up so yes, 100 missions or more at 1-2K SL average per mission (for me) and that doesn't even count the RP.

 

I've not had much luck with efficiently earning fighter RP with a bomber.  If there's some math trick I'm missing I'm willing to learn.  I've barely moved the needle trying to get the J20 in Sweden with those bombers.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[Razielkaine 4,876]

12 minutes ago, The4thAmigo said:

 

I can't change the economics of the game.  I know I'm not the best player but when I do play well it doesn't seem to make a difference.  There's only so many videos from 2013 to 2017 you can try to emulate.  This "you suck, git gud or shut up" isn't helping.  Casual players deserve to know how the economics are stacked against them.

But your spreading false information to people who want to do better but they get you telling them it's not worth it it's the games fault. But it's not.  My sqn has 4 players who play without premium and they don't struggle they just take longer then those of us with premium.

 

 

[The4thAmigo 135]

Also, regarding the "planes you don't want": You have to research and buy the U4 versions of the ME-410 in order to advance to the Tier 4.0 DO-335.  I suck at using large cannons in aircraft and have no desire to use that 57mm cannon.  Yet I have to research and buy that plane to advance tiers.

5 minutes ago, Razielkaine said:

But your spreading false information to people who want to do better but they get you telling them it's not worth it it's the games fault. But it's not.  My sqn has 4 players who play without premium and they don't struggle they just take longer then those of us with premium.

 

 

I'm not sure how math and experiences are false information.  Don't squadrons share resources? How long did it take one of them to get a jet?  How long to the F-14?  My calculations say it takes 18 years to grind to the F-14 for a casual player like me without premium.

[Razielkaine 4,876]

7 minutes ago, The4thAmigo said:

Also, regarding the "planes you don't want": You have to research and buy the U4 versions of the ME-410 in order to advance to the Tier 4.0 DO-335.  I suck at using large cannons in aircraft and have no desire to use that 57mm cannon.  Yet I have to research and buy that plane to advance tiers.

I'm not sure how math and experiences are false information.  Don't squadrons share resources? How long did it take one of them to get a jet?  How long to the F-14?  My calculations say it takes 18 years to grind to the F-14 for a casual player like me without premium.

The fact you haven't actually yet had a good battle yet to complain about is a big part of it.  It's not a game problem, your just not good at it and you won't ever be because you refuse to acknowledge that.

 

And no sqn don't share resources.  And your maths shows you don't understand the game or how the rewards work.

[The4thAmigo 135]

58 minutes ago, Razielkaine said:

The fact you haven't actually yet had a good battle yet to complain about is a big part of it.  It's not a game problem, your just not good at it and you won't ever be because you refuse to acknowledge that.

 

And no sqn don't share resources.  And your maths shows you don't understand the game or how the rewards work.

Tell me what you consider a "good game" SL and RP wise at US BR 2.7 and German BR 3.0.  These results were about as good as I can get and if you don't consider them "good" then I don't know what to say. I would like to keep moving up in BRs and I thoroughly expect to do worse as I encounter better players at the higher tiers.

 

My math is correct for the F-14 based on my average earnings. See this thread that also has a 3rd party video about the grind.  You never answered how long it took your squadron mates to get a jet.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

We used to play this game at the lab (after hours). To make things fair, we all used free accounts. I unlocked jets after ~80 hours of play. No money spend at all. And no specific grind. Just casual play without the intention to reach jets.

 

As to your SL income: low tiers are designed neither to cost nor to generate much SL. If you want to earn more SL, you have to move to planes that work OK and offer a higher SL% factor.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[DerLachendeMann 506]

So many people here trying to help, but :

Spoiler

 

[The4thAmigo 135]

3 hours ago, DerLachendeMann said:

So many people here trying to help, but :

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thanks.  Obviously you didn't read this:

 

I attempt to do all the correct things in all the tutorials, forum posts and old videos.  Avoiding furballs, going for planes slower than me, trying to avoid BF-109s, side climbing, using terrain to hide, boom and zoom, etc.  These are the results of that. I guess I need to start another tracking thread.

 

7 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

We used to play this game at the lab (after hours). To make things fair, we all used free accounts. I unlocked jets after ~80 hours of play. No money spend at all. And no specific grind. Just casual play without the intention to reach jets.

 

 

That's amazing.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

2 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

That's amazing.

 

No, it is just knowing the game economy basics, not skill.

[anyuser 5,136]

19 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

I attempt to do all the correct things in all the tutorials, forum posts and old videos.  Avoiding furballs, going for planes slower than me, trying to avoid BF-109s, side climbing, using terrain to hide, boom and zoom, etc.  These are the results of that.

You do fly with joystick and virtual cockpit view.

You do everything to make it harder for you on your own...

18 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

Also, regarding the "planes you don't want": You have to research and buy the U4 versions of the ME-410 in order to advance to the Tier 4.0 DO-335. 

I marked the important part for you.

You are talking about being forced to USE planes you don't like - but you even write on your own, that you do NOT have to use every plane.

And if you suck with large but low ROF guns, it is more efficient to NOT use this plane, even if it got a research boost.

 

Btw, that one got 2x 151/20 too, so it is very well armed... 

 

17 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

Tell me what you consider a "good game" SL and RP wise at US BR 2.7 and German BR 3.0.  These results were about as good as I can get and if you don't consider them "good" then I don't know what to say. I would like to keep moving up in BRs and I thoroughly expect to do worse as I encounter better players at the higher tiers.

I just got the daily task to bomb a base.

I took out my Z1007 (italy) and dropped 3.34t of TNT equivalent at bases and got 3 shared kills and because the game was nearly over I went down for securing the win, killing one Arti side, one Pillbox and 2 tanks.

With prem account 

Bombing bases is for RP, not SL.

Bombing ground targets is for SL but only in high numbers.

 

Low BR flying does not yield much of both. Repair won't cost much either.

 

I was flying my 262C1 into a match

Ok, it was a 13 kills match with 3 deaths and an arti side for finishing it.

 

Still, Rewards are much higher the higher the BR is you are flying.

 

Still, reward is based on what YOU did.

Edited August 23, 2022 by anyuser

[The4thAmigo 135]

35 minutes ago, anyuser said:

You do fly with joystick and virtual cockpit view.

You do everything to make it harder for you on your own...

I marked the important part for you.

You are talking about being forced to USE planes you don't like - but you even write on your own, that you do NOT have to use every plane.

And if you suck with large but low ROF guns, it is more efficient to NOT use this plane, even if it got a research boost.

 

Btw, that one got 2x 151/20 too, so it is very well armed... 

 

I just got the daily task to bomb a base.

I took out my Z1007 (italy) and dropped 3.34t of TNT equivalent at bases and got 3 shared kills and because the game was nearly over I went down for securing the win, killing one Arti side, one Pillbox and 2 tanks.

With prem account 

Bombing bases is for RP, not SL.

Bombing ground targets is for SL but only in high numbers.

 

Low BR flying does not yield much of both. Repair won't cost much either.

 

I was flying my 262C1 into a match

Ok, it was a 13 kills match with 3 deaths and an arti side for finishing it.

 

Still, Rewards are much higher the higher the BR is you are flying.

 

 

 

 

Yes I use joystick and virtual view.  I've tried using the mouse flying/aiming and do worse.  It just doesn't work right for me.  I know there are other joystick users out there that do well.

 

I should have phrased that statement better.  Yes, you must research and buy the planes you don't want, and if you want the most efficient RP gains for the next plane in the tier you have to use them.  I'd rather not stay at BR 2.3 or 2.7 forever.

 

You're playing with planes I don't have at tiers I haven't reached, getting results light years ahead of me and you are using premium.  You are obviously an advanced, daily player while I'm a filthy casual.  There is never going to be a time where I get 13 air kills.  I thought 7 was good but got laughed at. I believe that makes my point that casual players can try all they want and still not do well. I may get better, I may not but for now I'll have to accept these as my "best".

Edited August 23, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[anyuser 5,136]

It is not efficient when you can't make use of the research boost.

End of story.

Same tier or one tier below, something you are good with.

 

And for games with like 3 kills you will get between 15 and 20k, depending on your target at the br of the 262C1.

 

Planes got different Modifikators for RP and SL.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

6 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

 

 

Yes I use joystick and virtual view.  I've tried using the mouse flying/aiming and do worse.  It just doesn't work right for me.  I know there are other joystick users out there that do well.

 

I should have phrased that statement better.  Yes, you must research and buy the planes you don't want, and if you want the most efficient RP gains for the next plane in the tier you have to use them.  I'd rather not stay at BR 2.3 or 2.7 forever.

 

You're playing with planes I don't have at tiers I haven't reached, getting results light years ahead of me and you are using premium.  You are obviously an advanced, daily player while I'm a filthy casual.  There is never going to be a time where I get 13 air kills.  I thought 7 was good but got laughed at. I believe that makes my point that casual players can try all they want and still not do well. I may get better, I may not but for now I'll have to accept these as my "best".

 

Well, I don't know what to tell you then; it sounds like you're hitting the triple whammy of a bad control setup, using planes more for bombing when everyone else is on fighters, and not applying yourself.  I've had humiliations like my He-162 being shot down by an I-16 because I thought I'd swoop in at near Mach 1 and get an easy kill.  I've also had games where I slip into beast mode and get 21 kills without seeming to try that hard.  Raw player skill is only a part of it  I've never been premium and advanced to jets in three air forces, it's taking the time and putting effort in.  At some point you're going to have to accept you need to change rather than expect the other players or the entire game to change.  

[DerLachendeMann 506]

6 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

Yes I use joystick and virtual view.  I've tried using the mouse flying/aiming and do worse.  It just doesn't work right for me.  I know there are other joystick users out there that do well.

 

I should have phrased that statement better.  Yes, you must research and buy the planes you don't want, and if you want the most efficient RP gains for the next plane in the tier you have to use them.  I'd rather not stay at BR 2.3 or 2.7 forever.

 

You do actually need a joystick in sim, in AB/ RB a joystick will just gimp you vs mouse/kb users.

 

As to streamlining research, sure it's nice to have a 130% bonus for research, but if you don't perform with that vehicle all the research bonus in the world won't help you, you're better off using vehicles with regular research in which you perform well rather than a vehicle in which you don't perform even if it got a bonus...

I'm in no rush and I like playing my US BR 4.0 lineup.. basically I researched most US jets up to F-14 mainly with my BR 4.0 lineup, it's slow but entirely feasible.

[The4thAmigo 135]

15 hours ago, Kosher_Locust said:

 

At some point you're going to have to accept you need to change rather than expect the other players or the entire game to change.  

 

Well I'm doing the best I can. I will have to proudly accept my mediocrity.

[Razielkaine 4,876]

50 minutes ago, The4thAmigo said:

 

Well I'm doing the best I can. I will have to proudly accept my mediocrity.

No your not because the best you can is acknowledge you can do better if you try and listen to people trying to help. If your not doing that your not doing your best and will not get better and that makes this whole thread obsolete because the problem is you not the game. 

[The4thAmigo 135]

3 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

No your not because the best you can is acknowledge you can do better if you try and listen to people trying to help. If your not doing that your not doing your best and will not get better and that makes this whole thread obsolete because the problem is you not the game. 

I'm aware of my limitations and this is the best I can do given the time constraints I have available to put into this game.  I have read the numerous comments on how bad I am and how to adjust gameplay but that is going to take time. I've been playing an hour or so a day for the last month and there has been minimal improvement despite following the given advice. The screenshots I posted were good games for me (I thought) but apparently they aren't good enough for the community.  The game is unfriendly for casual players which is what I was trying to illustrate.

 

What I would like to know from you is how many hours a day are you putting into the game and are you using Premium?  You also never addressed what you consider to be a "good" game at US BR 2.7 or German BR 3.0.  Anyuser did (thank you) but you did not.

Edited August 24, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[Razielkaine 4,876]

3 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

I'm aware of my limitations and this is the best I can do given the time constraints I have available to put into this game.  I have read the numerous comments on how bad I am and how to adjust gameplay but that is going to take time. I've been playing an hour or so a day for the last month and there has been minimal improvement despite following the given advice. The screenshots I posted were good games for me (I thought) but apparently they aren't good enough for the community.  The game is unfriendly for casual players which is what I was trying to illustrate.

 

What I would like to know from you is how many hours a day are you putting into the game and are you using Premium?  You also never addressed what you consider to be a "good" game at US BR 2.7 or German BR 3.0.  Anyuser did (thank you) but you did not.

I personally always use premium and I play these days about 3 hours a week and I've been playing since closed beta. Saying all that I wasn't always good the difference is I didn't say to myself this is as good as I can get, they should change the game so I don't have to be better.

 

The game is fine for casual players but you just refuse to accept your not doing well and that you CAN do better.  If we were being tools we wouldn't waste our time here trying to help you.