Even when you do well, it is hardly worth playing

[The4thAmigo 135]

1 hour ago, Razielkaine said:

I personally always use premium and I play these days about 3 hours a week and I've been playing since closed beta. Saying all that I wasn't always good the difference is I didn't say to myself this is as good as I can get, they should change the game so I don't have to be better.

 

The game is fine for casual players but you just refuse to accept your not doing well and that you CAN do better.  If we were being tools we wouldn't waste our time here trying to help you.

 

I take breaks up to months at a time once I get frustrated with the game or hit a wall where I can't advance anymore, or simply when life gets in the way. Once it was for a year.  If I've been playing consistently for a month about an hour a day please calculate the time required to "git gud", keeping in mind I've been trying to follow the suggestions given on this forum, videos, Reddit, etc.  I don't quite have a PhD in Warthunder (more of an associate's degree) but if you have a curriculum please enlighten me. Your experiences are obviously better than mine.

 

You can see my profile, you can see how many games I've played and my average earnings per game.  Based on my average RP and SL earnings since 2013 how much time to get to a jet in any tier?  You think my math regarding the F-14 is wrong so what are your calculations?

Edited August 25, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[The4thAmigo 135]

Here's an example of following the various pieces of forum advice, videos, etc. and getting hosed.  Here's what I did based on what I've read and it has consistently worked:

 

1. Climb about 45 degrees offset to the farthest base (in this case the left-most base).

2. Continue to switch to gunner view to watch out for enemies.

3. Fly into clouds for cover.

 

I started turning towards the enemy base while in the cloud.  When I came out there was a Premium F4U (the Japanese one) and a Premium I-16 something.  They were about 3km away and nearly at my altitude and climbing rapidly.  I turned head on to the F-4U (I wasn't going to make it to the base anyway) and started shooting at about a mile out.  I think I hit him (or her) once for 10 points and between him and the I-16 I was dead in seconds.  What would you have done differently?  There was no hope of an escape here.

 

 

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, The4thAmigo said:

What would you have done differently? 

 

I would have played the bomber in arcade, where it works much better and can win the game. You would be happy, your team would be happy, your Silver Lions would be happy.

 

Besides, your boosters would not have been this wasted, even if you lose the bomber.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[Razielkaine 4,876]

4 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

Here's an example of following the various pieces of forum advice, videos, etc. and getting hosed.  Here's what I did based on what I've read and it has consistently worked:

 

1. Climb about 45 degrees offset to the farthest base (in this case the left-most base).

2. Continue to switch to gunner view to watch out for enemies.

3. Fly into clouds for cover.

 

I started turning towards the enemy base while in the cloud.  When I came out there was a Premium F4U (the Japanese one) and a Premium I-16 something.  They were about 3km away and nearly at my altitude and climbing rapidly.  I turned head on to the F-4U (I wasn't going to make it to the base anyway) and started shooting at about a mile out.  I think I hit him (or her) once for 10 points and between him and the I-16 I was dead in seconds.  What would you have done differently?  There was no hope of an escape here.

 

 

I'm curious, you said you have tried mouse and not done well.  Considering mouse is insanely easier I'm wondering did you have mouse aim sele Ted as the control setup or were you trying to mouse with full real settings?

 

I keep forgetting g you ise joystick and you will never so well in ab or rb with a stick vs good mouse users. It's like playing g with one hand tied behind your back

Edited August 25, 2022 by Razielkaine

[The4thAmigo 135]

7 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

I would have played the bomber in arcade, where it works much better and can win the game. You would be happy, your team would be happy, your Silver Lions would be happy.

 

Besides, your boosters would not have been this wasted, even if you lose the bomber.

 

Other than the single JU-88 example I gave above, bombers in arcade are worse, especially with the DB-7 which is my $6.00 premium plane.  I barely make one run before getting shot down.  I used to do well in bombers and could at least shoot down a plane or two before dying but that was before they nerfed the gunners.  After that game I took out a Wellington and did better, however despite destroying a base and shooting down 3 fighters while repairing on the ground I only got around 10KSL and minimal vehicle RP.  I know the RP gap is likely due to being 2 tiers above the Wellington.

 

4 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

I'm curious, you said you have tried mouse and not done well.  Considering mouse is insanely easier I'm wondering did you have mouse aim sele Ted as the control setup or were you trying to mouse with full real settings?

 

I keep forgetting g you ise joystick and you will never so well in ab or rb with a stick vs good mouse users. It's like playing g with one hand tied behind your back

 

I don't remember if mouse aim was on but I used whatever the default settings were for Simplified Controls.  Its hard for me to get oriented when using a mouse.  Its too much like cheating for me anyway and there's no fun in just pointing a mouse somewhere and clicking to shoot the guns.  I point and click all day with a mouse at work and I don't want "Air Diablo II" as a game mode.  If that nerfs me in some way I'll have to live with it.

 

 

 

[Razielkaine 4,876]

1 hour ago, The4thAmigo said:

Other than the single JU-88 example I gave above, bombers in arcade are worse, especially with the DB-7 which is my $6.00 premium plane.  I barely make one run before getting shot down.  I used to do well in bombers and could at least shoot down a plane or two before dying but that was before they nerfed the gunners.  After that game I took out a Wellington and did better, however despite destroying a base and shooting down 3 fighters while repairing on the ground I only got around 10KSL and minimal vehicle RP.  I know the RP gap is likely due to being 2 tiers above the Wellington.

 

 

I don't remember if mouse aim was on but I used whatever the default settings were for Simplified Controls.  Its hard for me to get oriented when using a mouse.  Its too much like cheating for me anyway and there's no fun in just pointing a mouse somewhere and clicking to shoot the guns.  I point and click all day with a mouse at work and I don't want "Air Diablo II" as a game mode.  If that nerfs me in some way I'll have to live with it.

 

 

 

Don't use simplified use mouse aim. I can understand why you were struggling if that's the case. Mouse aim at lower tiers can feel that way but once you play it more and get away from low tier planes and flight models it doesn't feel so much that way, especially when you learn keyboard is where a lot of efficient game play comes from not just mouse.

 

Either way if you stick with joystick that's your decision but you playing a game where almost no one is doing that and the modes aren't designed for it and as such your disadvantaging yourself and will never be able to compete on the same level as the average mouse/keyboard player and that's not the games fault.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

On 24/08/2022 at 09:25, The4thAmigo said:

 

Well I'm doing the best I can. I will have to proudly accept my mediocrity.

 

Last night I played a game flying my 2.0 Italian lineup.  The Italian planes are like spam, similar airframes and weapons.  They have twin .50 caliber guns with exploding "air target" ammo but a slow rate of fire and the airframes are decent but not great.  On the opposing side was a Ki-43, the first rank 1.7.  The pilot was only a rank 37, I'm a 74 or so, so I decided to shoot him down and remove the most lethal plane on the field.  Well, the guy knew how to maneuver and handily shot me down. I tried again and he got me four times  altogether.

 

He was flying a better plane and may have had an edge in ping, but the biggest problem was me.  I chose to engage in unfavorable circumstances and once he got me the ego kicked in and I kept going back for more with the same result.  That's the type of thinking you need to work on, where can you win and where are you going to step in and get shot down.  Any player can pick up what is a good situation for them or not and act accordingly.

[The4thAmigo 135]

On 25/08/2022 at 18:36, Kosher_Locust said:

 

Last night I played a game flying my 2.0 Italian lineup.  The Italian planes are like spam, similar airframes and weapons.  They have twin .50 caliber guns with exploding "air target" ammo but a slow rate of fire and the airframes are decent but not great.  On the opposing side was a Ki-43, the first rank 1.7.  The pilot was only a rank 37, I'm a 74 or so, so I decided to shoot him down and remove the most lethal plane on the field.  Well, the guy knew how to maneuver and handily shot me down. I tried again and he got me four times  altogether.

 

He was flying a better plane and may have had an edge in ping, but the biggest problem was me.  I chose to engage in unfavorable circumstances and once he got me the ego kicked in and I kept going back for more with the same result.  That's the type of thinking you need to work on, where can you win and where are you going to step in and get shot down.  Any player can pick up what is a good situation for them or not and act accordingly.

 

I'm aware that no matter how well you follow advice, forums and videos you can still get kicked in the teeth on a regular basis.  I try to avoid engagements that I can't win or superior planes which means I only get 1 or maybe 2 kills a game.  This significantly slows progress and rewards.  Since I don't use autorepair the progress is slowed even further above BR 3.0 since you have to way 24 hours or more for your planes to regenerate.  Its been a month of consistent playing and now that summer is over my time for the game is going to be even less.  Someone mentioned this game is a "frustration driven freemium model" and I tend to agree.  At least its an easy flight sim for my kids.

 

I'll either be better and have a jet by this time next year or I won't.

Edited August 29, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[anyuser 5,136]

1 hour ago, The4thAmigo said:

Since I don't use autorepair the progress is slowed even further above BR 3.0 since you have to way 24 hours or more for your planes to regenerate. 

If the repair tier skill of the crew matches the tier of your plane the repair skill comes into play and does reduce the free repair time.

Much less then 24h...

 

And better to join a group of players that can teach you or at last analyse what you are doing wrong.

[Razielkaine 4,876]

3 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

 

I'm aware that no matter how well you follow advice, forums and videos you can still get kicked in the teeth on a regular basis.  I try to avoid engagements that I can't win or superior planes which means I only get 1 or maybe 2 kills a game.  This significantly slows progress and rewards.  Since I don't use autorepair the progress is slowed even further above BR 3.0 since you have to way 24 hours or more for your planes to regenerate.  Its been a month of consistent playing and now that summer is over my time for the game is going to be even less.  Someone mentioned this game is a "frustration driven freemium model" and I tend to agree.  At least its an easy flight sim for my kids.

 

I'll either be better and have a jet by this time next year or I won't.

dont think in terms of superior planes.  a superior plane doesnt matter if you have superior tactics.

[The4thAmigo 135]

On 29/08/2022 at 15:38, anyuser said:

If the repair tier skill of the crew matches the tier of your plane the repair skill comes into play and does reduce the free repair time.

Much less then 24h...

 

And better to join a group of players that can teach you or at last analyse what you are doing wrong.

 

I was never really focused on repair skill since I usually died so fast.  It didn't make sense to waste the points since I hardly lasted long enough to make it back to an airfield to repair.  Oops.  Some are higher than others but most of my planes look like this.

 

I would not be able to dedicate the appropriate time to support a squadron or group.

On 29/08/2022 at 18:16, Razielkaine said:

dont think in terms of superior planes.  a superior plane doesnt matter if you have superior tactics.

 

Well, I'm not sure a DB-7 will come out ahead against the Japanese F-4U.  My key to surviving longer is avoiding BF-109s and some of the higher BR fighters.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[Razielkaine 4,876]

7 minutes ago, The4thAmigo said:

 

I was never really focused on repair skill since I usually died so fast.  It didn't make sense to waste the points since I hardly lasted long enough to make it back to an airfield to repair.  Oops.  Some are higher than others but most of my planes look like this.

 

I would not be able to dedicate the appropriate time to support a squadron or group.

 

Well, I'm not sure a DB-7 will come out ahead against the Japanese F-4U.  My key to surviving longer is avoiding BF-109s and some of the higher BR fighters.

 

no mate, avoiding is just limiting your progression and improvement as a pilot.  every plane has something they do better then another plane be it turning, speed, rate of climb, energy retention etc.  identify your target, what you can do better then them and use it. dont go charging into every engagement, still follow the rules of climbing and using allies etc but dont just avoid someone you deem better plane.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, Razielkaine said:

no mate, avoiding is just limiting your progression and improvement as a pilot.  every plane has something they do better then another plane be it turning, speed, rate of climb, energy retention etc.  identify your target, what you can do better then them and use it. dont go charging into every engagement, still follow the rules of climbing and using allies etc but dont just avoid someone you deem better plane.

 

As a general rule, as a bomber you better avoid fighters.

[Razielkaine 4,876]

4 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

As a general rule, as a bomber you better avoid fighters.

Well yes your right, bombers are an exception usually 

[anyuser 5,136]

1 hour ago, The4thAmigo said:

 

I was never really focused on repair skill since I usually died so fast.  It didn't make sense to waste the points since I hardly lasted long enough to make it back to an airfield to repair.  Oops.  Some are higher than others but most of my planes look like this.

 

I would not be able to dedicate the appropriate time to support a squadron or group.

 

Well, I'm not sure a DB-7 will come out ahead against the Japanese F-4U.  My key to surviving longer is avoiding BF-109s and some of the higher BR fighters.

 

 

1. There are groups that don't force you to support a squad all the time. You don't even need to join a squadron, you just need contact. You can still form up a squad for a few matches...

 

2. DB-7 is an attacker/light bomber and great at hunting down ground targets.

F4U is an underBRed fighter, at last 1 full BR higher...

 

Usually you avoid those planes by carefully picking where you go and you go there with an exit plan in mind.

Still DB-7 can bite back, something that is rare for bombers.

Edited August 31, 2022 by anyuser

[The4thAmigo 135]

On 31/08/2022 at 12:04, anyuser said:

1. There are groups that don't force you to support a squad all the time. You don't even need to join a squadron, you just need contact. You can still form up a squad for a few matches...

 

2. DB-7 is an attacker/light bomber and great at hunting down ground targets.

F4U is an underBRed fighter, at last 1 full BR higher...

 

Usually you avoid those planes by carefully picking where you go and you go there with an exit plan in mind.

Still DB-7 can bite back, something that is rare for bombers.

 

This was the premium Japanese F4U that climbed to my altitude of 12k feet despite me flying way offset to the target and moving in and out of clouds.  I had no hope of escape.  There have been other situations where players in premium planes shoot me from beyond the range my gunners can target or shoot them (1.5 KM) Pretty much everything is superior to the J20 and S-199 as well but you have to grind them in order to make it down their respective trees.

Edited September 1, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[VT_88 342]

DB-7 is slow and easy to kill.

 

You need to be more aware of the fighters, noticing them at 2km away is not good at all.

 

Here's one thing you can do, turn back

 

Sometimes your team is so bad that is the only hope you  have. Turn back circle around and wait. It's challenging in a different way.

 

I like it when the whole team is on the ground and no one is flying high. The other team consistently has 4 fighters up high.  Those games are a real challenge to get in one or more bomb runs.

 

I've even turned back and landed because there was no hope with that team. Then I spawn in a fighter and kill two or three before the game is over. 

 

 

[DerLachendeMann 506]

On 01/09/2022 at 13:44, The4thAmigo said:

This was the premium Japanese F4U that climbed to my altitude of 12k feet despite me flying way offset to the target and moving in and out of clouds.

 

If you're at 12k feet in a DB7 you're doing it wrong, go in low & hard on ground targets. It will take you quite a few runs to destroy a base, which you may or may not destroy. If you kill ground targets you'll be more useful.

 

 

 

[The4thAmigo 135]

13 minutes ago, DerLachendeMann said:

 

If you're at 12k feet in a DB7 you're doing it wrong, go in low & hard on ground targets. It will take you quite a few runs to destroy a base, which you may or may not destroy. If you kill ground targets you'll be more useful.

 

 

 

This was in Air RB and the "bomb a base from high altitude" strategy usually works well for me.  I get pounced on by fighters or shot down by AAA if I go low.  I can't complain much since it was a free plane but it is severely outclassed now especially since the gunners don't shoot back anymore.  I've been doing slightly better in arcade with a BR 4.0 B-25 since it has a greater volume of fire to shoot back.

Edited September 6, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[anyuser 5,136]

Not me but somebody I know.

Havoc and DB-7 are more or less the same (maybe slightly weaker engines).

3 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

especially since the gunners don't shoot back anymore

Range of AI gunners in RB and SB is strongly reduced compared to AB.

You can always open the skillmenue to check the actual ranges...

 

Btw, you should check the statcard too, it shows the altitude of the highest speed and for the DB7 this is less then 3km.

It is a low altitude plane.

[Razielkaine 4,876]

4 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

This was in Air RB and the "bomb a base from high altitude" strategy usually works well for me.  I get pounced on by fighters or shot down by AAA if I go low.  I can't complain much since it was a free plane but it is severely outclassed now especially since the gunners don't shoot back anymore.  I've been doing slightly better in arcade with a BR 4.0 B-25 since it has a greater volume of fire to shoot back.

If gunners aren't shooting back check your crews gunner skills and your spotting/awareness skills. Your aim will spot them from further away, engage them further away and be more accurate but I've always been a manual gunner, way better then even an ace crew.

[The4thAmigo 135]

I've been trying to get a replay to confirm my suspicions about the 210 meter limit but the replay downloads are broken for some reason.  Here's the stats on both the B-25 and DB-7.  I know I have some room to add points on the DB-7.  Even at max skill with the B-25 gunners I'm only getting less than 3/4 of a mile engagement and there are lots of planes that can shoot farther than that.

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by The4thAmigo

[Razielkaine 4,876]

4 hours ago, The4thAmigo said:

I've been trying to get a replay to confirm my suspicions about the 210 meter limit but the replay downloads are broken for some reason.  Here's the stats on both the B-25 and DB-7.  I know I have some room to add points on the DB-7.  Even at max skill with the B-25 gunners I'm only getting less than 3/4 of a mile engagement and there are lots of planes that can shoot farther than that.

 

Your number of experienced gunners is low, is that enough for that plane? I'm not in front of my computer

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, Razielkaine said:

Your number of experienced gunners is low, is that enough for that plane? I'm not in front of my computer

You can see on the stat card his gunner crew effect isn't reduced on DB-7. On the other card, it is.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[The4thAmigo 135]

10 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

Your number of experienced gunners is low, is that enough for that plane? I'm not in front of my computer

 

9 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

You can see on the stat card his gunner crew effect isn't reduced on DB-7. On the other card, it is.

 

I think when I upgraded from the earlier B-25 I gained a gunner.  One of my other slots has 7 gunners for my B-17 that I used to run but I didn't want to pay to retrain the B-25 crew.