The QN506 is a joke at 9.7

[卡缇娅还想再躺九下 22]

Gaijin does not properly construct the image recognition mechanism, so the F&F ATGM in the game is actually still a MANPAD that tracks the heat source.

[Kingtiez@live 606]

I can definitely see this vehicle being at most 9.3 in its current state, it’s too slow and lacks armor for it’s BR, it gets ammo racked constantly because of the big obvious rocket launchers and 10mm neck or however thin it is.

It’s still an interesting vehicle though, just not lived up to its hype. We’ll see what happens if they fix any bugs it may have.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Kingtiez@live

[Kallu609 8]

Would rather use the Marder 1A3 at 9.7 than this abomination, if the missiles were even semi-reliable it would be maybe worth 9.0 and still 90% of players would almost certainly just use the AFT09 when they need missile spam

[supersaiyan9751@live 366]

Don’t forget the QN506 can only fire the missiles while not moving meaning you have to sit still and let the enemy kill you to fire missiles but you just die before you can. Every video or clip I have seen it happens a lot.

[tripod2008 594]

9 hours ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

It's not molten metal, it's a small metal slug from an EFP

And? The fact that its still modeled as a single penetrator, and doesn't benefit from Tandem penetration modeling like Axial (Conventional tandem) designs (e.g. AGM-114K, etc.) like it should, in order work around to the issue of the game engine being unable generate a second offset Self Forging Fragment as to properly model the time delayed impact of the second slug, which serves as the ERA defeat mechanism for the TOW-2B, as you can see that the warheads are angled away from one another and the delay would allow for the ERA to function and dissipate clearing the way for the second slug to penetrate when it overflies the same point of aim, it is known that the target sensor includes a magnetic sensor and Laser range finder so the delay between warheads could be dynamically set to hit the same point in space due to the overflight of the missile.

Spoiler

it didn't seem to have any troubles

10 hours ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

And they were nerfed because they made for terrible gameplay

Only because people had not adapted to them, and so got caught out when moving, otherwise out of cover, or did not see the launch. The same thing would happen if it was an M1 with M829A4 or the MGM-166 just that since the TOW-2B is so much slower you have time to react. and its one selling point of being able to hit targets in a defilade is counter-able by reversing or otherwise moving so it does not overfly the tank, or passes a sufficient distance to not trigger the warhead. but no because of a knee jerk reaction things get fudged

 

If this was a legitimate concern there would have been significant amounts of content removed(Vikhrs and Helicopters as a whole, non stock Parts and FPE, and more), and we'd probably have a Tank only game mode at this point (for all the issues it would have).

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

2 hours ago, tripod2008 said:

Only because people had not adapted to them, and so got caught out when moving, otherwise out of cover, or did not see the launch.

 

sod off

it was nothing but bradleys spamming missiles at the antennas of turret down tanks and there was 0 counterplay unless the bradley/CV9040 BILL was otherwise out of cover and caught while moving.

[GHANA_COMBAT_MAN 81]

11 hours ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

but if you seriously think this is better than the VCC/30 somehow: lol

I don't think it's better. I think it's equal. Only reason this thing and not VCC, is getting attention is because it's new and main prize of grinding event. Also gaijin hates italy for some reason.

 

11 hours ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

At least the TOW-2A can reliably hit something, it has more than 100 rounds of APFSDS, and mobility

Rate of fire of the VCC = 200rpm. Rate of fire of the QN506 = 330 rpm. It has 60% faster rate of fire. Rate of fire is everything with low caliber darts. I agree that VCC has better mobility. But it's not great and loses consistenly to lower BR vehicles such has fan favourite BMP-2M))),2S38)), TAM 2C, Begleit, warrior(lol), just to name a few examples.

 

Sure TOW-2As perform decent but 9.7 just for them? really bro?

11 hours ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

And they were nerfed because they made for terrible gameplay

Russian powerfantasy ERA blocks and vehicles like BMP-2M, and 2S38 are not terrible gameplay then? Can't wait for T-14 to be added and be immune to western darts like ru**ian MoD says it is. Can't wait for Terminator to be added and be everything between moon and the sky ru**ian MoD says it is. Gaijins problem is that only grain of salt they should be taking is where they don't.

If you think that is good gameplay then gaijin should just remove other nations and let us play only russians because other nations performing like they should is "tErRibLE gAmEpLaY" yikes dude

..........................:gun_emoji:

_________________________________________

PS. In Phlys video you can see that thing survive multiple shots when he's hull down on the desert map. Also, on the french, map he survived quite few shots aswell. Armor is so thin that darts don't spall so they just go through. HE and other rounds are problematic of course, but like WITH ANY OTHER IFV.

When the top down ATGM gets "fixed" it's going to be monster, mark my words.

[tripod2008 594]

38 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

 

sod off

it was nothing but bradleys spamming missiles at the antennas of turret down tanks and there was 0 counterplay unless the bradley/CV9040 BILL was otherwise out of cover and caught while moving.

No-one is countering anything they didn't see it doesn't matter what kind of ordnance / shell gets used, so its a tautology to expect that to occur outside of cheating or a functional team / squad that makes (accurate) callouts. and with the slow speed of the TOW, and SACLOS guidance you even get a chance to flip the engagement into win or trade as TOWs only travel at 250~300m/s which at range can equate to seconds of flight time which is more than enough for a shell to make the distance off a snap shot potentially doing sufficient damage to evade or minimize damage taken.

 

The counterplay is obviously to not to get into the situation where you need  to sit / transit somewhere that might be observed, and be aware of potentially sky-lining or otherwise telegraphing your location to an observer especially if you have the map knowledge to know where power positions are. Considering that Thermals exist at that BR and its seems like common-sense considering just how many vehicles have access to them in some form or another, and knowing you are even there is the most basic first step in any engagement so is practical advice anyway regardless of what you are up against or the situation you find yourself in.

 

You wouldn't tell someone that was sitting stationary out in the open that they did nothing wrong, if they got counter-peaked by someone that was hull down. You should tell them to either not travel via said choke point / to take another route to the objective that avoids the power position or at least checks them off before hand sure none of the maps in WT are great but they are at least designed so that positions need to support one another to be secure, or otherwise need more than one vehicle to cover all approaches.

 

So why would you decry that the TOW-2B needed to be mechanically adjusted to make things fair? Is the Same thing going to happen to; Vikhrs & S-13s, the Pantsir, Strela & MANPADS, ERA & NERA arrays? The issue is that adjustments that should flow both ways in order to improve gameplay. simply don't, for unknowable reasons.

Edited April 10, 2023 by tripod2008

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

2 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

No-one is countering anything they didn't see it doesn't matter what kind of ordnance / shell gets used, so its a tautology to expect that to occur outside of cheating or a functional team / squad that makes (accurate) callouts. and with the slow speed of the TOW, and SACLOS guidance you even get a chance to flip the engagement into win or trade as TOWs only travel at 250~300m/s which at range can equate to seconds of flight time which is more than enough for a shell to make the distance off a snap shot potentially doing sufficient damage to evade or minimize damage taken.

 

The counterplay is obviously to not to get into the situation where you need  to sit / transit somewhere that might be observed, and be aware of potentially sky-lining or otherwise telegraphing your location to an observer especially if you have the map knowledge to know where power positions are. Considering that Thermals exist at that BR and its seems like common-sense considering just how many vehicles have access to them in some form or another, and knowing you are even there is the most basic first step in any engagement so is practical advice anyway regardless of what you are up against or the situation you find yourself in.

 

You wouldn't tell someone that was sitting stationary out in the open that they did nothing wrong, if they got counter-peaked by someone that was hull down. You should tell them to either not travel via said choke point / to take another route to the objective that avoids the power position or at least checks them off before hand sure none of the maps in WT are great but they are at least designed so that positions need to support one another to be secure, or otherwise need more than one vehicle to cover all approaches.

 

So why would you decry that the TOW-2B needed to be mechanically adjusted to make things fair? Is the Same thing going to happen to; Vikhrs & S-13s, the Pantsir, Strela & MANPADS, ERA & NERA arrays? The issue is that adjustments that should flow both ways in order to improve gameplay, simply don't for unknowable reasons.

 

Why are you completely ignoring the TOW-2B could kill someone completely behind cover (the primary defense against anything and especially ATGMs)? A Vikhr/S-13/Pansir/Strela/MANPADS or whatever you feel like spewing for some reason, not even the BMP-2M or 2S38 can kill someone behind a solid object

 

This is why it made for horrible gameplay.

[tripod2008 594]

 

22 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

 

Why are you completely ignoring the TOW-2B could kill someone completely behind cover (the primary defense against anything and especially ATGMs)? A Vikhr/S-13/Pansir/Strela/MANPADS or whatever you feel like spewing for some reason, not even the BMP-2M or 2S38 can kill someone behind a solid object

Because its not the only mechanism that exists for NLOS  kill attribution, do they both somehow not have access to scouting, artillery, HE and (GL-)ATGMs of their own?

 

22 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

This is why it made for horrible gameplay.

This is subjective, and as show could additionally be attributed to a number of additions and mechanics, but the meta evolved and plans were developed to deal with them to various degrees of success.

Edited April 10, 2023 by tripod2008

[Smoak741 1,140]

QN506 is very nice heli destroyer from far away

[tripod2008 594]

1 minute ago, Smoak741 said:

QN506 is very nice heli destroyer from far away

it seems to be the only use case for anything Electro-Optically guided.

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

Just now, tripod2008 said:

 

Because its not the only mechanism that exists for NLOS  kill attribution, do they both somehow not have access to scouting and artillery?

 

How many times have you pin point called artillery on an MBT and got a kill? I have one kill in the Type 93 because of this despite the number of Artillery strkes I have called in it, not mention you have bright flashing text on the screen, a voice call out and now smoke markers telling you an artillery strike has been called on you.

 

Spotting is entirely passive

 

Just now, tripod2008 said:

This is subjective, and as show could additionally be attributed to a number of additions and mechanics, but the meta evolved and plans were developed to deal with them to various degrees of success

 

Let me put this in the simplest possible way:

 

29 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

You wouldn't tell someone that was sitting stationary out in the open that they did nothing wrong

 

Your alternative is telling someone who was in full cover that he did something wrong.

[Smoak741 1,140]

9 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

it seems to be the only use case for anything Electro-Optically guided.

And how does it handle drones? I haven't seen it in action against drones yet.

[tripod2008 594]

22 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

 

How many times have you pin point called artillery on an MBT and got a kill? I have one kill in the Type 93 because of this despite the number of Artillery strkes I have called in it, not mention you have bright flashing text on the screen, a voice call out and now smoke markers telling you an artillery strike has been called on you.

I would agree its not common, but it's not a non zero chance and they do pop up in the kill feed on occasion. and mostly happens to people that remain dug in and completely ignore the multitude warnings.

 

22 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

Spotting is entirely passive

it still increases the likelihood that teammates will take note of, and damage / destroy the spotted opponent. It can also help notify you of their (immediate) intentions, should they prepare are about to cross into the open, peak a corner or go hull down from defilade to take offensive position, allowing you to adjust you point of aim, pre-fire, or smoke up in order to kill them, cross a gap or evade.

 

22 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

Your alternative is telling someone who was in full cover that he did something wrong.

Yeah, positioning matters. You can do absolutely nothing wrong and still lose, even before any RNG gets involved. and if they got spotted without noticing and taking action, they already ***** up, so yes they did do something wrong, which was to assume that they were safe, when in fact they weren't.

 

The same way being behind a wall that might stop 7.62, may not stop 20mm, being in a bunker won't save you from a bunker-buster. or being on the far side of a hill, from a Nuke. Sure in absolute terms a lot of what was previously cover, becomes concealment when faced with a TOW-2B, but then again Helicopters and Aircraft can do that already, the TOW-2B doesn't present a new threat only an extension of said capability to a handful or relatively weak IFVs.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Smoak741 said:

And how does it handle drones? I haven't seen it in action against drones yet.

Due to the fixed loft (G-Bias) maneuver limiting minimum range, energy, and maneuverability and general altitudes and range you find drones at they aren't great but as long as they don't maneuver too hard they can on occasion get a kill though it heavily dependent on them not being too evasive.

Edited April 10, 2023 by tripod2008

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

11 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

I would agree its not common, but its not a non zero chance and they do pop up in the kill feed on occasion. and most happens to people that remain dug in and completely ignore the multitude warnings.

 

Precisely

"Ignore multitude of Warnings"

usually implies you had the time or option to do something about it

 

11 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

it still increases the likelihood that teammates will take note of, and damage / destroy the spotted opponent. It can also help notify you of their (immediate) intentions, should they prepare are about to cross into the open, peak a corner or go hull down from defilade to take offensive position, allowing you to adjust you point of aim, pre-fire, or smoke up in order to kill them, cross a gap or evade.

 

It still requires you to expose your vehicle to an enemy in order for you to die, how you can equate this to an NLOS kill is beyond me

 

11 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

Yeah, positioning matters. You can do absolutely nothing wrong and still lose, even before any RNG gets involved. and if they got spotted without noticing and taking action, they already ***** up, so yes they did do something wrong, which was to assume that they were safe, when in fact they weren't.

 

The same way being behind a wall that might stop 7.62, may not stop 20mm, being in a bunker won't save you from a bunker-buster. or being on the far side of a hill, from a Nuke.  sure in absolute terms a lot of what was previously cover, becomes concealment when faced with a TOW-2B, but then again Helicopters and Aircraft can do that already, the TOW-2B doesn't present a new threat only an extension of said capability to a handful or relatively weak IFVs.

 

This is getting absurd, if you have some grievance make another thread about it. Sure nuking tanks only seeing their antennas with OP as xxxx TOW-2Bs was fun in the CM 25 but it was not remotely balanced and certainly was not fun on the receiving end. This has nothing to do with the QN506.

Edited April 10, 2023 by llSolitairell@psn

[Noir89 2,577]

24 minutes ago, Smoak741 said:

And how does it handle drones?

It takes ages to get to ~5km when fighting helicopters - drones most likely fired both ATGMS long before your Missile might hit them.

[tripod2008 594]

2 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

how you can equate this to an NLOS kill is beyond me

 

Because it is beyond the vehicles line of sight, and so is effectively an indirect kill, therefor NLOS.

6 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

This has nothing to do with the QN506.

The reason the TOW-2B was originally brought up because the F&F missile could have a similar use case against a target that moves into to defilade or otherwise out of sight due to the lofting / top attack profile allowing it to maintain the track, sure the minimum range will be larger than the -2B, but it has yet to be nerfed, and can freely ignore ERA / NERA anyway.

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

2 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

Because it is beyond the vehicles line of sight, and so is effectively an indirect kill, therefor NLOS.

 

Except the spotter didn't actually kill them, just indirectly, completely different as that require both line of sight to spot and line of sight to the target from the player that actually killed them.

 

2 minutes ago, tripod2008 said:

The reason the TOW-2B was originally brought up because the F&F missile could have a similar use case against a target that moves into to defilade or otherwise out of sight due to the lofting / top attack profile allowing it to maintain the track, sure the minimum range will be larger than the -2B, but it has yet to be nerfed, and can freely ignore ERA / NERA anyway.

 

The TOW-2B was brought up because of the VCC/30 and loft trajectory F+F vs direct fire and player control.

[tripod2008 594]

2 minutes ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

requires both line of sight to spot

With how janky spotting is you should know that it sometimes tags targets in concealment, or otherwise barely exposed or manages to miss those sitting out in the open.

[GHANA_COMBAT_MAN 81]

4 hours ago, llSolitairell@psn said:

 

jesus christ go back to reddit

Nice arguments. Not like i expected any social skills from a guy with 6400 WT forum posts. So I'm gonna assume that you agree on everything I posted. It's nice to know that something I said hit the spot so hard that you can't produce any arguments against it and reduce to insulting and being toxic.

 

So to reiterate. QN506 is going to be a beast when it's top down ATGM gets fixed and 9.7 is just fine. /thread

[Kanortex 0]

On 09/04/2023 at 19:14, UPSMan said:

 

 

I don't know if it's normal, but this tank is really easy to overpress with really any kind of HE shell or rocket, it doesn't even have to hit the tank directly, just hit the track and the tank seems to take 1 hit straight away be.

The QN506 gets overpressured by its own ERA activating... its a bugriddled mess that probably has some big holes somewhere.

[llSolitairell@psn 5,730]

19 minutes ago, GHANA_COMBAT_MAN said:

What a self roast lmfao. Do you really play IFVs or are you just pretending to be stupid for the sake of increasing forum posts? In what world you can shoot with main IFV gun for more than 1 to 5 seconds per battle?. OF COURSE IT MATTERS HOW MANY ROUNDS YOU CAN SHOOT IN THOSE SECONDS.  Honestly I'm not sure if you are typing seriously or just trolling.

 

If you were comparing a bmp-3 and a warrior you'd have a point. If you can't kill something with 200RPM you likely weren't going to with 330.

Edited April 10, 2023 by llSolitairell@psn

[kcns 37]

What is up with chinese LTs and being overtiered for no reason?  ZTS63, M41D, now this. All could have been pretty cool original vehicles but are absolutely trash because of their br

[Nuckerball 275]

On 09/04/2023 at 07:53, Renamed63415 said:

As stated.  I think the 9.7 BR is completely undeserved.  The typical reddit knee-jerk reaction of "OH MY GOD FNF BUT MUH PUMA SPIKE HURR DURR CHINA OP THIS IS INSANE IT BELONGS AT 12.7 WITH FNF" probably caused it to go up from 9.3, which it is still overtiered at.



From the evidence posted onto youtube, the QN506's play style is extraordinarily frustrating and niche.  The FNF missiles have a tendency to explode in mid-air if the opponent moved more than half of its hull into concealment, it also is bugged when fired against high AOA jet targets where it'd just fly up and then fly straight, being unable to track at all despite being able to get a lock-on from the ground.  The ability for the 1100mm pen ATGMs to be manually guided via laser/MCLOS is not modelled in game, thus making this deadly weapon completely useless on city maps, maps with a lot of trees, or wreckages, which are 85% of the maps in current rotation.  



The smaller, 200mm rockets are simply pathetic.  At its current battle rating, most tanks have adopted composite armour or ERA, even APSs, rendering them utterly ineffective. Their mounting also makes them impossible (not impractical) to use within 50 meters, as they do not converge to the cross-hair in time to be accurate enough to disable critical components such as their gun barrel or breach--which is about their only use in ordinary circumstance: panic spamming, since the 1100mm ATGM takes care of longer range engagements.

The cannon, despite being a carbon copy of the Russian 2A42 (the turret is of the Type-86A modernization program), fires dramatically slower. It also only has 200 rounds compared to the PUMA's 400 and the BMP-2M's 500, meaning that before you can dispatch even 4 enemies you are out of rounds and have to go back to a cap to rearm.

"Buht just FLANK. You are a LIGHT TANK, the cannon and 20mm rockets are soooo good in FLANKS!" As in flanking in a vehicle that is going 50km/h TOPs that is the approximate height of an FV4005 will be incredibly successful, thank you astute viewer. The QN is based off of a Type-59 hull, manufactured in the 1960s, compared to the BMP-2M's 65KM/h with its puny size and fire-on-the-move ATGMs (which are 1200mm by the way, wink wink) or the PUMA's monstrous survivability, thanks to its armour package, at a blistering 70km/h. This vehicle is about the same speed realistically as an MBT of the same tier, let alone going into 10.7. Plus at this tier, the penetrative power of the 30mm is completely diminutive, being unable to penetrate the broad side of T-80s unless you aim for the area beneath the rubber skirt which can be difficult.

"But it's just a Chinese BMP-T? Right?" WRONG. The BMP-T is constructed from the hull of a T-72, being significantly lower as well as more protected by the 3rd Gen Relikt ERA package that offers substantially better AP protection. https://imgur.com/a/RbrUtTJ I mean for the love of got this thing's """ERA""" can be penned by vehicles' HEAT 1.7br below it, the FYs currently in game are modelled incorrectly as well, and this isn't helped by the FY-1 ERAs on the cheek of the vehicle being identified as "Rolled armour" which is just steel.

If you want a TL;DR, here's the best analogy that I can think of: Imagine this, you're a 5'10 (178cm) scranny Asian male, going into a boxing ring with Floyd Mayweather Jr. You tell the judges "This isn't my weight class," but the judges say "Uh-uh-nuh! You see, to help your odds against Floyd, you will be given a M82A1 .50cal sniper rifle, and this sling shot with a bag full of tungsten ball bearings! You will do GREAT!" So you ask them, "Well, do I have the space to use these things? It's kinda heavy and I can't fire either of these on the move and expect to hit Floyd." And the judges just smack you in the face and send you into the ring.

Put this thing at 8.7 and I guarantee you you are gonna see similar win-rates (I guess lose rates?) as you would in 9.7. This thing does not deserve to be at 9.7, lower it please for the love of god.

Looks like all the normies are beginning to realize just how bad fire and forget autopilot is. Uht players weren't lying when they said pars3 fire and forget is extremely unreliable 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Nuckerball