Battlerating Overview updated

[Quax0815 1,989]

I SHOULD be getting +1.33 BR games whenever i win 8 out of 10 games, or higher...but I don't, ever.

 

Not necessarily. 

 

1.33 is the theoretical maximum (without penalties). During primetime with more than 40K player online in Arcade, the MM often manages it, to match planes with not more than 0.33 or 0.66 BR difference. Even with a 0.33 penalty, you have a good chance to seldomly see a +1.33 plane. And finally, it is all about luck.

 

However, looking to the level you play (5.0), I am surprised, that you never saw a 6.3. On tier IV reagrdless of primetime or not, the number of players are not that high. A lot of people complaining about this 1.33-Rule and even more. Perhaps you are just a lucky xxxxxxx?  :Ds

 

The rules I posted above, including the 1.33-Rule are all confirmed by Gajin officials in Q&As on the forums or official articles on the website. Thats all I can say.

 

PS: oooh man, these damn xxxxxxxx filtered xxxxxxx. This is xxxx floral.  :facepalm:

Edited February 15, 2014 by Quax0815

[bonobo_ 433]

Hi Quax,

 

thanks for the good job.

 

One mistake in your file : XF5F has a BR of 4.7 in all modes as it appears in the game UI (not 3.7 as in your file).

(Yes, I know, this figure sounds crazy... :facepalm: )

[ebbor10 93]

IIRC, only 3% of the players gets uptiered because of their performance.

[BigDaddyTrippy 213]

IIRC, only 3% of the players gets uptiered because of their performance.

Point is none should get up tiered because of performance. 3% of several hundred thousand playing the game is a large number.  Everyone should be treated same and on equal footing. Just because its 3% does not mean its worthy of being ignored.  It would be same to say 3% players are playing in under tiered battles seal clubbing so its not a problem.  But that still is a problem and hurts the entire community.

Edited February 19, 2014 by BigDaddyTrippy

[Lescun 92]

Wait why did the P-63 A10 get tiered up and the A-5 get tiered down?  They're nearly identical.

[Quax0815 1,989]

The A5 did not change, at least not in Arcade.

 

The change of the A10 is easily explainable, imho. They introduced the russian premium version lately. And they put it on Tier IV with a 5.0 BR (iirc), in order to give pilots of soviet-planes more versatility to grind Tier V.

Therefore, they had to adjust the american version, too. It is simple like that.

 

This change has nothing to do with the famous automatic BR-Change based on statistics, Gajin is often talking about. It has even nothing to do with performance or gameplay at all. This change was caused by thoughts about economy & progression not performance.

 

Of course the P-63 was untertiered. But not that undertiered!

Edited February 21, 2014 by Quax0815

[Sidiros 4,914]

The A5 did not change, at least not in Arcade.

 

The change of the A10 is easily explainable, imho. They introduced the russian premium version lately. And they put it on Tier IV with a 5.0 BR (iirc), in order to give russian pilots more versatility to grind Tier V.

Therefore, they had to adjust the american version, too. It is simple like that.

 

This change has nothing to do with the famous automatic BR-Change based on statistics, Gajin is often talking about. It has even nothing to to with performance or gameplay at all. This change was caused by thoughts about economy & progression not performance.

 

Of course the P-63 was untertiered. But not that undertiered!

 

Only problem is it didn't help the economy and progression at all for US.   It still is in Tier III and the RP penalty still applies.

 

If they put it in Tier IV; I'd be all for it as the US direly needs more competitive cannon armed aircraft in Tier IV.   Hell; move all the P-63's up there.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Sidiros

[Quax0815 1,989]

Only problem is it didn't help the economy and progression at all for US.   It still is in Tier III and the RP penalty still applies.

 

If they put it in Tier IV; I'd be all for it as the US direly needs more competitive cannon armed aircraft in Tier IV.   Hell; move all the P-63's up there.

 

Yes! Gajins idea with the new Tier/BR-System was, to decouple matchmaking and progression for faster and more flexible changes. The example of the P-63 with a rating of III/5.0 shows, that this new system is able to fail.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Quax0815

[Quax0815 1,989]

Here is the new BR-Overview after 1.39 went live:

 

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:64427]

[bonobo_ 433]

Thanks a lot Quax. I really appreciate your work.

 

If I may : as you know there is some overlapping in BR and Era (a given BR can be found in different Eras).

So for a few planes your chart is wrong when it comes to Era.

 

Can you find a way to correct this ?

May be add a side note for those exceptions ?

[bonobo_ 433]

You could also add the 2 gift planes :

 

U.S. XF5F : rank III, BR=4.3

Soviet TB-3M-17-32 : rank I, BR=2.0

[Quax0815 1,989]

Thanks a lot Quax. I really appreciate your work.

 

If I may : as you know there is some overlapping in BR and Era (a given BR can be found in different Eras).

So for a few planes your chart is wrong when it comes to Era.

 

Can you find a way to correct this ?

May be add a side note for those exceptions ?

 

Yes, thats an issue. I will look for a solution.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Quax0815

[Quax0815 1,989]

You could also add the 2 gift planes :

 

U.S. XF5F : rank III, BR=4.3

Soviet TB-3M-17-32 : rank I, BR=2.0

 

Actually there are a lot more special event planes.

So far I decided to not include them, because I can't check their BR immediately after a patch.

Well, the P-39 (SU) is included, because I own it.

[Quax0815 1,989]

I edited the Rules of Matchmaking in the initial post and added a link to the new BR calculation for Arcade-sets.

 

It seems this function is bugged. So I will include a short summary, when it is fixed.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Quax0815

[bonobo_ 433]

2. The MM matches your plane against planes with a BR not higher or lower than 1.33. Remember, the BR figures ingame are rounded, so 2.3 is 2.33 internally and 2.7 is 2.66. The steps are always 1/3 exactly.

 

The BR of an Arcade-Set is the average of the highest 3 planes, calculated by this formula: http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/125109-battle-rating-for-arcade-matchmaking-explanied-139/

Are you sure about this rounding thing ? (1.3 means 1.33 ; 1.7 means 1.66)

I'm asking because in the topic that you have linked they use the BR figures like 1.3 and 1.7 for their example calculations.

 

BTW it's not the average of the 3 highest plane, it's the average between the highest plane and the average of the 2 following planes (within the limit of 0.6 difference). But I guess this is unreadable in a single sentence ;)

[bonobo_ 433]

Yes, thats an issue. I will look for a solution.

About this era/BR overlaping issue.

 

I've being thinking about it.

The solution I'm using at the moment (for the chart I use to optimize Arcade setup) is this :

for every BR, I have 2 lines whenever there are 2 ranks involved.

 

Example :

 

Era          BR       U.S. crew 1 ... Sov. crew 4  ... Ger. crew 2 ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I              1.7            F2A-3       I-16 type18

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I              2.0            P-36C

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

II             2.0                             Mig-3-15

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I              2.3            P-36G       Su-2 M82

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

II             2.3            F4F-3        LaGG-3-35

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I              2.7                                                            He-112B-1

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

II             2.7            P-40E-1

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

II             3.0            P-400

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

III            3.0            P-47D-25

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

(of course there are more than 1 plane in a given cell of the table, and for your table the columns are just nations, not crews)

 

There could be different line colors for different ranks to help visualise the thing.

[Quax0815 1,989]

Are you sure about this rounding thing ? (1.3 means 1.33 ; 1.7 means 1.66)
I'm asking because in the topic that you have linked they use the BR figures like 1.3 and 1.7 for their example calculations.

Gajin once talked about 1.33 as BR-Range. Actually 1.3 would not work in some cases, where the difference is 1.4.
Interestingly, this new calculation of the "Average BR" is based on the rounded figures and not on the internal ones.
 

BTW it's not the average of the 3 highest plane, it's the average between the highest plane and the average of the 2 following planes (within the limit of 0.6 difference). But I guess this is unreadable in a single sentence ;)

Yes, but it is still the average of the three 3 BRs. There are different averages in mathematics. This one is based on a special formula. I edited my sentence above from "the average" in "an average". Edited April 17, 2014 by Quax0815

[fastmaxwell 111]

Gajin once talked about 1.33 as BR-Range. Actually 1.3 would not work in some cases, where the difference is 1.4.
Interestingly, this new calculation of the "Average BR" is based on the rounded figures and not on the internal ones.
 

Yes, but it is still the average of the three 3 BRs. There are different averages in mathematics. This one is based on a special formula. I edited my sentence above from "the average" in "an average".

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. But given the length of the thread and the amount of comments I can only conclude that the whole BR Matchmaker system is badly flawed. The end result is matches that are no longer fun. The whole system needs to be scrapped in favour of a new simpler system that can be easily explained. The current hodge podge is totally screwed and Gaijin does not seem to be listening to the players.

[Quax0815 1,989]

Fully agree. The MM has to be the simplest system of all in a PvP game.

[FlawedAim 359]

Fully agree. The MM has to be the simplest system of all in a PvP game.

I also agree.  If they keep it up we will have to be mathematician's in order to figure out what the hell they are doing.  I think the KISS principal comes into play here.  

[weetad 226]

cry me a freakin river baby 

[bonobo_ 433]

official 1.39 BR changes announcement :

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/126766-br-changes-139-full-list/

 

Edit : I noticed an error in the list : the Fw190D-9 appears 2 times. I have notified White_bada.

Edited April 18, 2014 by bonobo_

[Sidiros 4,914]

official 1.39 BR changes announcement :

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/126766-br-changes-139-full-list/

 

Hilarious...   I'd expect every patch to be like that as people utilize different aircraft as they are either lowered in tier becoming more effective or stop using them as they are raised.

[Quax0815 1,989]

Gajin is 3 days too late. This list his has to be part of the initial patchnotes.

[Quax0815 1,989]

I updated the Rules of Matchmaking in the initial post. It seems thes changed the BR-Range of the MM since 1.39 and removed the penalty for good performance.

 

Hiromachi - Senior Technical Moderator wrote:
 

Basic spread is 1.0 and there is no more "pro punishment". That was an issue of 1.37
In 1.39 players who manage to play well are no longer tiered higher. It means that if you are meeting anything in Rb with BR difference above 1.0 it is a bug and should be reported. It only works in other side - if you are not playing well, system will downtier you.

 

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/125109-battle-rating-for-arcade-matchmaking-explained-139/?p=2507312

Edited May 2, 2014 by Quax0815