ground vehicles Super M60AX - The Final Patton Tank

[Stofferberry 1,629]

I would love to see this in game. Maybe Gaijin will also fix the numerous armor and modeling problems with M60s in game.

[Results45 2,200]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 7:49 PM, RefrigerRaider said:

This is a cutout from RP Hunnicutts book on the Patton. It mentions the Super M60 briefly and this diagram is the only thing that shows to some degree the layout of the Super M60's armor.

 

The Super M60 is official designated as M60AX

 

Thanks for posting this^^

 

Full Hunnicutt M60 book: https://vk.com/doc-20674223_437179592?hash=6a7ec5ace9b1a3a945&dl=48ff2e98730e745c8d

 

[IOC_000 924]

Put it after the RISE and profit? +1

[AlanHR 5,261]

+1

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

12 hours ago, IOC_000 said:

Put it after the RISE and profit? +1

 

Step 1: Add M60AX 

 

Step 2 

 

Step 3: Profit! 

 

 

Anyway, sure there’s info on this tank, and it looks cool, but it still doesn’t say what the “composite module” is made of, and we can’t assume it’s composition either. The reason the T-64A was added is because we know what’s in the layers, but the same cannot be said for this, the M1, the Challenger, Leopard 2, etc. etc. 

 

I don’t have high hopes. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by xX_Lord_James_Xx

[Nope 10,634]

1 hour ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Step 1: Add M60AX 

 

Step 2 

 

Step 3: Profit! 

 

 

Anyway, sure there’s info on this tank, and it looks cool, but it still doesn’t say what the “composite module” is made of, and we can’t assume it’s composition either. The reason the T-64A was added is because we know what’s in the layers, but the same cannot be said for this, the M1, the Challenger, Leopard 2, etc. etc. 

 

I don’t have high hopes. 

 

also its a patton

 

gaijin aint good with pattons

[IOC_000 924]

1 hour ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Step 1: Add M60AX 

 

Step 2 

 

Step 3: Profit! 

 

 

Anyway, sure there’s info on this tank, and it looks cool, but it still doesn’t say what the “composite module” is made of, and we can’t assume it’s composition either. The reason the T-64A was added is because we know what’s in the layers, but the same cannot be said for this, the M1, the Challenger, Leopard 2, etc. etc. 

 

I don’t have high hopes. 

Though unlike the latter I doubt these modules would be classified;but yeah unless someone does some digging and finds the composition of the composites this tank is not happening.

[Results45 2,200]

15 hours ago, IOC_000 said:

Put it after the RISE and profit? +1

 

Sure, why not*? 

 

US: M60A2 Starship @ 8.3 >>> M60A1 RISE Passive (infrared searchlight, passive night vision, and add-on ERA) @ 8.7 >>>  M60AX Super Patton (composite M60A3 with hydropneumatic suspension) @ 9.3 >>> M60A3 TTS/SLEP (modernized M60A3 with improved electric drives for faster turret/traverse/elevation rate, add-on glacis & skirt armor, laser rangefinder/crosswind sensor, M21 ballistic computer, AN/VSG-2 thermal imaging sights, gunner/loader's digital fire-control unit, 950hp engine, and 120mm M256 L/44 gun) @ 9.3 >>> MBT-70 @ 10.0-10.3 >>> XM803 @ 10.0-10.3 >>> XM815/XM1 (General Motors) @ 10.7 >>> XM815/XM1 (Chrysler) @ 10.7 >>> 105mm M1 Abrams @ 11.0

 

 

*on a 0.0-11.0 BR scale

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

That's probably getting rather ambitious, considering we don't seem to have data available for the M60AX's "composite module", let alone the composites on any of the M1 variants, nor do we have good data on the 120mm L/44 ammunition (that would be super OP anyway). 

[Laviduce 1,779]

39 minutes ago, muzzleflash98 said:

That's probably getting rather ambitious, considering we don't seem to have data available for the M60AX's "composite module", let alone the composites on any of the M1 variants, nor do we have good data on the 120mm L/44 ammunition (that would be super OP anyway). 

We have a litany of estimates, the internal layout and thicknesses of the M1 Abrams. We have even more information (size, design,trajectory, accuracy, velocity curves,etc.) on the DM13 and DM12 rounds for the 120 mm L44.

[IOC_000 924]

55 minutes ago, Laviduce said:

We have a litany of estimates, the internal layout and thicknesses of the M1 Abrams. We have even more information (size, design,trajectory, accuracy, velocity curves,etc.) on the DM13 and DM12 rounds for the 120 mm L44.

Estimates that vary widely and cannot be confirmed or denied by primary sources; I can look at the M60AX and the CE vs KE protection and lead myself to believe that the modules are fibreglass batting sandwiched between RHA or Ceramic. Without primary sources I would never actually know; this is what everyone is missing. All estimate's are not created equally; especially for modern tanks with significant differences between variants and export models. Plus methodology is unknown for most of them; this means we have no way to confirm them ourselves.

 

So we have numbers gathered without a consistent method; plus no facts to compare to. As far as I'm concerned they are fairytales until shown to be accurate.

[Laviduce 1,779]

9 hours ago, IOC_000 said:

Estimates that vary widely and cannot be confirmed or denied by primary sources; I can look at the M60AX and the CE vs KE protection and lead myself to believe that the modules are fibreglass batting sandwiched between RHA or Ceramic. Without primary sources I would never actually know; this is what everyone is missing. All estimate's are not created equally; especially for modern tanks with significant differences between variants and export models. Plus methodology is unknown for most of them; this means we have no way to confirm them ourselves.

 

So we have numbers gathered without a consistent method; plus no facts to compare to. As far as I'm concerned they are fairytales until shown to be accurate.

The estimates do not vary widely and can be confirmed from various sources.

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

10 hours ago, Laviduce said:

We have even more information (size, design,trajectory, accuracy, velocity curves,etc.) on the DM13 and DM12 rounds for the 120 mm L44.

 

The US didn’t use DM13 though, we used M829... which is more powerful. 

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

4 hours ago, Laviduce said:

The estimates do not vary widely and can be confirmed from various sources.

 

So can you show us how they can be confirmed? And the "various sources" used to do so? Because I remember the Leo 2 discussion (with someone else, not you) that went:

"I have the documents, I just can't show them to you."

"Then what good are they if you can't show them to us or the devs?"

"But I have the documents."

 

And please don't spam a bunch of computer models showing the volume of the armor, because that's really not very helpful information.

[Laviduce 1,779]

2 hours ago, muzzleflash98 said:

 

So can you show us how they can be confirmed? And the "various sources" used to do so? Because I remember the Leo 2 discussion (with someone else, not you) that went:

"I have the documents, I just can't show them to you."

"Then what good are they if you can't show them to us or the devs?"

"But I have the documents."

 

And please don't spam a bunch of computer models showing the volume of the armor, because that's really not very helpful information.

I listed them in the M1 thread. Knowing the volume, dimensions and mass of composite array bays might not be the most useful information but it can help establish protection estimates.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Laviduce

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

1 hour ago, Laviduce said:

I listed them in the M1 thread. Knowing the volume, dimensions and mass of composite array bays might not be the most useful information but it can help establish protection estimates.

 

Maybe we're thinking of different M1 threads.

 

In this one the only decent data is this extremely general chart: (KE on the left, CE on the right)

Spoiler

 

That's not exactly... detailed. And as was explained in that thread, it doesn't take into account how different types of sabot interact with composite arrays.

[IOC_000 924]

16 hours ago, Laviduce said:

The estimates do not vary widely and can be confirmed from various sources.

This is the issue; without primary sources (schematics, testing data on a range etc.) this statement cannot be proven true.

10 hours ago, Laviduce said:

I listed them in the M1 thread. Knowing the volume, dimensions and mass of composite array bays might not be the most useful information but it can help establish protection estimates.

Do you know the exact materials that would be in those bays? nope.

Those are decent Guesses; that i will give you. i enjoyed reading the thread but it still comes down to the fact that it's all speculation at this point; until there are actual proven facts about these materials calling them estimates is misleading at best.

[RefrigerRaider 563]

if it was intended for export, it aint classified information. someones mustve got that info somewhere, and hunnicutt was able to get the armor information because it was not classified.

[IOC_000 924]

34 minutes ago, RefrigerRaider said:

if it was intended for export, it aint classified information. someones mustve got that info somewhere, and hunnicutt was able to get the armor information because it was not classified.

So Kuwait would give me the schematics for their M1A1 if i said please, thank you and had enough cash? In the past the US avoided exporting classified materials; now though? We do it all the time; F-15,F-35 M1A1 etc. All have been given to other countries with classified materials at some point.

Though this discussion is becoming somewhat irrelevent for the M60AX; which i would hardly be surprised if hunnicutt had the documents still. This is a vehicle that was a stopgap and intended to be economic; i seriously doubt they bolted on NERA arrays and composite blocks.

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

2 hours ago, RefrigerRaider said:

if it was intended for export, it aint classified information. someones mustve got that info somewhere, and hunnicutt was able to get the armor information because it was not classified.

 

It was a private venture by Teledyne-Continental Motors. So they probably have the information. But whatever was in the "composite modules" was either a simple silica based armor or it's classified (probably the former). And just because something is made for export certainly doesn't mean it isn't classified.

[potatosalad10 0]

Looks dope but feel like it would be like the othersxd

 

[Nope 10,634]

11 hours ago, RefrigerRaider said:

if it was intended for export, it aint classified information. someones mustve got that info somewhere, and hunnicutt was able to get the armor information because it was not classified.

 

then wheres the type 90-II's armor layout

wheres the m1a1 armor layout in use by multiple arab nations such as saudi arabia and morocco

why dont we have the strv 122's armor layout

why is the leopard 2e's armor layout still hard to find

wheres the cr 1s armor layout from the jordanians

wheres the t-90s armor layout from the indians

 

it dont work that way my friendly pal sonny boy

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

1 hour ago, Nope said:

 

then wheres the type 90-II's armor layout

wheres the m1a1 armor layout in use by multiple arab nations such as saudi arabia and morocco

why dont we have the strv 122's armor layout

why is the leopard 2e's armor layout still hard to find

wheres the cr 1s armor layout from the jordanians

wheres the t-90s armor layout from the indians

 

it dont work that way my friendly pal sonny boy

Spoiler

had to be, sry xD

 

[Laviduce 1,779]

2 hours ago, dotEXCEL said:

  Hide contents

had to be, sry xD

 

Just say nope to Nope!

 

Here are some revelations:

 

Abrams:

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

Type-96 like vehicle:

 

Spoiler

 

T-XX:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

I have more!

 

[muzzleflash98 1,697]

Some of those pictures are somewhat useful, as they establish a decent idea of the design of the M1A1's armor, which is very likely to be somewhat different than that of the original M1. 

 

But wow! such revelations! The M1 has armor made up of multiple layers!!! /s

 

53 minutes ago, Laviduce said:

I have more!

 

We're all well aware, they get dumped into threads all too frequently. There's still no solid data on what any of those layers consist of, or even how thick they are!