tanks/vehicles T-72M1 (GDR) - German tree, Tier 6 MBT.

[kev2go 5,112]

T-72M1 ( GDR)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This article is for a suggestion to include the T72M1, Export Built version of the T72A to be included for the German tank tree. It was used by the GDR being adopted in the late 80s.

 

 

General Characteristics Summary

 

Combat Weight: 41.5 tonnes
Length: 7.0m (Hull)
Width: 3.59m
Height 2.2m to turret roof
Engine: 780hp V46-6 V12 diesel, 2000 RPM
Top Speed: 60 kph (Road)

Reverse speed : -4 km

Turret Traverse : 18 degrees per second

Auto-loading speed : 7.1 - 8 seconds per round.

Gun: 2A46M 125mm cannon

Crew: 3 ( Driver, Gunner, Commander)

Gun Elevation: - 6, + 14.

 

Power / Weight ratio : 18.1 Hp/ ton

 

Ammunition: 3bm9 APFSDS,   3bm15 APFSDS, BK12M HEATFS, OF19 HE.

 

 

 

Hull Armor Layout:

 

16mm Applique + 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA

 

Glasis Armor  estimates : 350mm- 410mm vs Ke  , 500mm  vs CE

 

Turret Armor Estimates 380mm – 400mm vs KE, 480 -500mm  vs CE

 

 

 

History Summary

 

The T72M1 is a export based derivate of the Russian Built T72A. Many characteristics are applicable from the T72A so information in many areas can be substituted or used.

 

T72M1 is essentially a T72A model 1983 built in warpact allies countries ; Poland and Czechoslovakia for the adoption for themselves and other warpact allies as well a for the export market.  The T72M1 It was introduced into production in the mid 80s. The Best APFSDS ammunition the USSR allowed for export until the end of the cold war was the 3bm15.

 

Further History and Information

 

Spoiler

 

Initially in 1979 when production started the T72A was essentially just a T72 Ural Mod 1976 with composite armor in the turret. Due to thicker looking turret it received the nickname by nato forces  “Dolly Parton”,  By which point it already had the  TPDk1 Laser rangefinder and 1A40 Sighting Complex as the T72 ural model 1976 .  T72A model 1979 armor layout was the same. The Night vision device TPN-1-49 is antiquated as it dates back to introduction  on the T55 and T62 tanks.

 

T72A/ M1  gunners position interior

 

As the  T72 ural Mod 76, IE 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA.

 

 

 

1981 production of the T72A introduced the installation of Tucha Smoke dischargers on the turret.

 

 T-72A  model 1983 Production introduced the welding of the 16mm HSS plate atop the front hull  to bolster protection in Response to testing results of the M111 hetz, that was obtained in 1982.

 

You can read more here

 

http://www.israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?t=679

 

 

Thus the layout was now 16mm Applique + 60mm RHA + 105mm STEF + 50mm RHA

 

 

 

 

 

Turret armor contained  Quartzite  within the turret Cavity. ( Some sources state that unlike T72A, the T72M1 may have had  mere sand instead of Quartzite)

 

 

Now comes the T72M1 . In the mid 1980s the USSR authorized export production of the T72A : The T72 M1 ( Built to T72A mod 1983 standards)  to be license produced in factories in Poland and Czechoslovakia. It was being adopted in numbers by warpact allies by 1988.

 

The only difference IRL basically ended up being lower enforced standards of Quality control compared to what was being built in the USSR, but otherwise essentially built to the same specifications as the T72A model 1983, and introduced later comparative to the Russian built T72A.

 

T72 and T64 Autoloading mechanism comparison

 

T72 uses a different design that is electric based whilst the T64 Auto-loader design is powered by Hydraulics

 

 

 

 

Serivce History within Germany ( GDR)

 

By 1991, once  Unification was complete Germany had  a total 537 T72 URal/ T72M/  T72M1 tanks in inventory. 136 of which were the T72M1 version. Since the M1’s were adopted in 1988 it only saw short 2 years of service history with “East Germany” before unification had been complete just before the end of the Cold war. After the end of the cold war over the years the T72 Tanks were removed from service and sold off to various nations for Export and donated to various museums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources

 

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=T-72A/M1

 

 

https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.ca/2015/06/the-armor-protection-of-t-72-tank.html

 

 

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.ca/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html

 

 

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.ca/2017/12/t-72-part-2-protection-good-indication.html

 

 

http://fofanov.free.fr/

 

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=EouHCwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 

http://www.israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?t=679

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Slipslime 660]

No more GDR content should be included in the game since it is literally copy and paste, since East Germany was a satellite state of the Soviets that developed no unique military vehicles. West Germany has plenty to bring to the table

[kamikazi21358 998]

I wanted to see a E. German T-55 for a while now; now we are going composite armor both Russian T-72s and German T-72s would be awesome.

since top tier SB is currently Russia vs literally every other nation in the game, having Germany on both sides, Leopards and CL-13s and stuff for NATO and on the Russian team only allowing T-55 and T-72s, and any other East German vehicles they decide to add, would help balance SB que times.

[kev2go 5,112]

6 minutes ago, Slipslime said:

No more GDR content should be included in the game since it is literally copy and paste, since East Germany was a satellite state of the Soviets that developed no unique military vehicles. West Germany has plenty to bring to the table

 

 Although extremely similar  to T72A its  a export built  T72 tank specifically for WARsaw pact and export.

 

also last time i checked Russia has T64 not T72 tanks ( so far) . So no copy- Paste there 

 

And remember this was the best version OF T72 employed by warpact.  Later T72s ( T-72B) T64's and T80s were never exported or license built during the Cold war for Warpact . SO T72M1 is Germany tree will not take away from what the Russians have or what future tanks they can potentially get.  

 

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by kev2go

[Slipslime 660]

35 minutes ago, kev2go said:

 

 Although extremely similar  to T72A its  a export built  T72 tank specifically for WARsaw pact and export.

 

also last time i checked Russia has T64 not T72 tanks ( so far) . So no copy- Paste there 

 

And remember this was the best version OF T72 employed by warpact.  Later T72s ( T-72B) T64's and T80s were never exported or license built during the Cold war for Warpact . SO T72M1 is Germany tree will not take away from what the Russians have or what future tanks they can potentially get.  

 

 

 

If the T-72 were to come to the game Russia would certianly get it, so then it would be copy paste. Though it may be export it certainly isn't unique in any real way. I would much rather see more interesting Bundeswehr vehicles

[kev2go 5,112]

25 minutes ago, Slipslime said:

 

If the T-72 were to come to the game Russia would certianly get it, so then it would be copy paste.

 

But you don't know that do you? and it isnt quite a copy paste tank as The T72A would very likely get better ammo options. 3bm15 was the best ammo type available for export and Warpact allies.

 

The reason the T72M1 makes more sense is its a more capable tank. option for top tiers. The T72M would have a fully steel cast turret liek a T72 Ural, and a T72A Chasis before it got the 16mm HSS plate. Although despite more differences it would  however more redundant vehicle.  

 

Quote

Though it may be export it certainly isn't unique in any real way. I would much rather see more interesting Bundeswehr vehicles

 

Depending on which version they get. Remember there quite a bit of versions of the T72. Therese no indication Gajin would specifically add that same variation. Nor has gajin confirmed any T72 series for the Russian tree, ( although certainly they are possibility, adn would be great to be placed after the medium lineup) 

 

 

T-72 Ural mod 73  ,  T-72 Ural mod 76, T-72A  Mod ( 79, 81, 83) T-72B (mod 84/ Mod 85/ Mod 89)

 

Including A T72M1 would not change direction of West German vehicles in any way. Dont worry  about not seeing other tanks ( as you say  " ID rather seeing other interesting vehicles")  Gajin has said they'd add a production Leopard 2 in the future ( devs answer player questions).  They both have a place in the German tree.  It especially makes sense when Germans are commonly matched with USSR anyways.Giving giving the T72M1 to Germany will not somehow make playing Russia redundant as they have more variations and better versions of the T72 they could potentially  get, and either way USSRs best tanks will remain Premier series of MBT's issued to Guard Units such as the T64B as well as potential followups to the T64B,  with the T80 series of tanks.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go

[Banfly 588]

No, despite whatever unique T-variants the DDR might have created. It's quite clear that Gaijin is following the FRG line (evidenced by the addition of the mKpz-47) and there's no reason to deviate from that. There are more than enough native designs to fill the TT so there's absolutely no need to implement any soviet design, I'd much rather have adaptions of american tanks such as the M48A2GA2. Also, it would be illogical to have DDR tanks fighting alongside FRG tanks, so a split in the MM would be necessary (especially in SB) thus resulting in unneeded complications. 

[kev2go 5,112]

1 hour ago, Banfly said:

No, despite whatever unique T-variants the DDR might have created. It's quite clear that Gaijin is following the FRG line (evidenced by the addition of the mKpz-47) and there's no reason to deviate from that. There are more than enough native designs to fill the TT so there's absolutely no need to implement any soviet design, I'd much rather have adaptions of american tanks such as the M48A2GA2. Also, it would be illogical to have DDR tanks fighting alongside FRG tanks, so a split in the MM would be necessary (especially in SB) thus resulting in unneeded complications. 

 

what you mean it isnt illogical for  mixed teams FRG tanks to fight alongside USSR against USA and UK.?  It would make more sense with such match-ups to throw in A tank like the T72M1.? 

 

 T72M1 is Fighting with  Uk and Germany , that is more plasible alternative history reality as one can think of those as a Post unfication tank fighting against USSR which didnt yet fully dislove  

 

it is what it is and including a single Russian deisgned tank wont change that. Dont see a problem here as Aviation already has CLA and Mig15.

 

if anything its  illogical to be against T72M1 but somehow support Foreign designed tanks like the M48A2GA2 that  are only minorly changed with local upgrades.

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go

[Ta_Kanata18 1,109]

20 minutes ago, kev2go said:

 

what you mean it isnt illogical for  mixed teams FRG tanks to fight alongside USSR against USA and UK.?  It would make more sense with such match-ups to throw in A tank like the T72M1.

 

it is what it is and including a single Russian deisgned tank wont change that. Dont see a problem here as Aviation already has CLA and Mig15.

 

if anything its  illogical to be against T72M1 but somehow support Foreign designed tanks like the M48A2GA2 that  are only minorly changed with local upgrades.

You cannot play both CL and Mig in air RB dont you. That point is moot.

[Banfly 588]

21 minutes ago, kev2go said:

 

what you mean it isnt illogical for  mixed teams FRG tanks to fight alongside USSR against USA and UK.?  It would make more sense with such match-ups to throw in A tank like the T72M1.

 

it is what it is and including a single Russian deisgned tank wont change that. Dont see a problem here as Aviation already has CLA and Mig15.

 

if anything its  illogical to be against T72M1 but somehow support Foreign designed tanks like the M48A2GA2.

 

On the contrary, it's totally logical as the M48A2GA2 was part of the FRG so it'd fight along side Leos. One thing is having a mix up of different nations (which I still disagree) another thing is having a mix up of different nations within the same tech tree. As for the classic MiG-15bis argument I'll reiterate what I said in another thread:

 

Quote

 

For that I'll resort to a quote from Alopekethen:

Quote

With no offense to the developers, I think they simply didn't have a plan for what to do with the German plane tree and then tried to rush in different solutions. It seems at first they were pretty adamant about not giving Germany too many paper/prototype planes so the best solution was to copy-paste Cold War jets, but then it seems there was a big temporary switch that brought about a whole bunch of prototype/paper planes in Germany and Japan, but this also didn't seem to last long since they seem to have gone back to their "no paper plane unless necessary" stance. 

 

[kev2go 5,112]

17 minutes ago, Ta_Kanata18 said:

You cannot play both CL and Mig in air RB dont you. That point is moot.

 

no its not moot.  since gemran teams are still matched with Russian teams ( also Rb is not the only game mode) 

 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Banfly said:

 

On the contrary, it's totally logical as the M48A2GA2 was part of the FRG so it'd fight along side Leos. One thing is having a mix up of different nations (which I still disagree) another thing is having a mix up of different nations within the same tech tree.

 

on the contrary  actually  m48A2GA2 and leo1a1 wouldn't fight together alongside the Russian  tanks vs Uk or Germany  so the point is moot.

 

T72M1 fighting alongside those tanks is can be and IS more plausible as an alternate reality in a post unified Germany matched along side Nato vs not yet disolved USSR.

 

Except for maybe historical events No Maps are true to reality. Given maps of an era arent restricted necessarily to certain tiers and given the matchmaker. having lower tiered b.r cold war vehicles fight ww2 tanks. 

 

Quote

 

As for the classic MiG-15bis argument I'll reiterate what I said in another thread:

 

 

thats just a User opinon / theory. Not Gajins explanation. 

and Frankly adding Mig15bis was good idea. Gives more Diverse content to the German tree. and allows for an additional  ( or alternate)  tier 5 9.0 jet.

 

Similary even if the focus is on Western content,  Germany should still get some further Russian planes to fill out the tree  if Gajin goes into more modern times. Especially something like the Mig29G. Derivative export made for Germany and Still kept in service for a number of years well after Unification. But i digress here. 
 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

the irony of the above arguments is that germany is now commonly paired with the soviets in tank RB.

 

 

at this point though, i think its fairly clear (at least for now) that the cold war-era german tech tree is the FRG, with the DDR MiG-15bis just being a holdover from early war thunder.

 

at this point, new east german vehicles are only likely to be seen as part of an axis minors tree, as most axis minors became eastern bloc minors.

 

still, for whenever and wherever the T-72M1 shows up, +1.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Admiral_Aruon

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

+1

[swpixy 1,220]

I support this,but i´d prefer if the german tree is properly split into FRG and GDR behind the WW2 equipment first,atleast by matchmaking.

Edited March 18, 2018 by swpixy

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

Just now, swpixy said:

I support this,but i´d prefer if the german tree is properly split into FRG and GDR behind the WW2 equipment first.

^ this

[Delta_48 471]

Yeah, agreed what swpixy said..... actually you should make that a suggestion

Edited March 18, 2018 by Delta_48

[CK_16 791]

Damn, that would be nice...IF only IF they make individual nation trees split for Germany at higher tiers.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

Uh...... no.

 

This will eventually come to the USSR tree, and I don't support CTRL+Vs.

[kev2go 5,112]

13 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

Uh...... no.

 

This will eventually come to the USSR tree, and I don't support CTRL+Vs.

 

Mig15bis?

 

F86F30 ?

 

AD4? 

 

F84G- 21 RE? 

 

need i say more? 

 

Besides Its technically not identical Copy paste. Russia Nver used T72M1, and you dont know that they would specifcally get the T72A Mod 83 ( closet comparable variant) Even so it would get better ammo options. S people tend to forget 3bm15 was the best warpact and Export nations got.

 

Again when Rusisa has better T72 options and larger variety options Including the already superior T64B and Potential future T64BV and T80 Family options you cant really pull that card. T72M1 wont take away from playing the Russian Tree. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go

[Universae 677]

Sorry bud, this is a NO from me.

-1 

 

I know we have the MIG 15Bis and all,  but I think Germany should follow the West German path since this is the most unique approch for Germany.

(Besides the Permium M47 and the CL-13 the top vehicles are German in origin, plus West Germany was self governed still.)

 

I think adding any Soviet tanks would just give Germany the best of both worlds and would be a bit OP.

[kev2go 5,112]

5 minutes ago, Universae said:

Sorry bud, this is a NO from me.

-1 

 

I know we have the MIG 15Bis and all,  but I think Germany should follow the West German path since this is the most unique approch for Germany.

(Besides the Permium M47 and the CL-13 the top vehicles are German in origin, plus West Germany was self governed still.)

 

I think adding any Soviet tanks would just give Germany the best of both worlds and would be a bit OP.

 

 

Not really the best of both worlds. As USSR has far more tanks   options ( better ones) with better ammo options

 

even if you comapred to how it stood n just now 

 

T64B > T72M1

 

T64B - still has better armor. Better ammo ( 3bm22) and AGTM option for greater versatility. in adition to a 51 DSHK on the roof. Sorry but this wouldnt make Russia redunant, especially when 1.79 is going to include more powerfull tanks.

 

T72M1 only superior to T64A at 9.0 but still not T-64B level of good at 9.3

 

M1A1 and production Leo2 confirmed ( and russia will almost certainly get a T-80B or T-80BV if these tanks are coming) 

 

So nope Its not the best of both world.s if they got the T72M1. That is the best tank GDR would get.

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

6 minutes ago, kev2go said:

Mig15bis?

 

F86F30 ?

 

AD4? 

 

F84G- 21 RE? 

 

I did say I don't support CTRL+V. I'm not the one who told Gaijin to add those for other tech trees.

[Universae 677]

2 minutes ago, kev2go said:

Not really the best of both worlds. As USSR has far more tanks  ( better ones) with better ammo options

 

I only play Germany in this game and I still disagree.

 

Sure, Russia do have more and better tanks still, but you are still giving Germany the flexability of NATO and Warsaw in the same battle. 

[kev2go 5,112]

6 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

I did say I don't support CTRL+V. I'm not the one who told Gaijin to add those for other tech trees.

 

better than getting nothing or  inferior proto junk

 

Thing is many nations Post War used Western Export or Liscense built planes. That the reality, and ins some cases applicable with tanks. 

1 minute ago, Universae said:

 

I only play Germany in this game and I still disagree.

 

Sure, Russia do have more and better tanks still, but you are still giving Germany the flexability of NATO and Warsaw in the same battle. 

 

germany doesnt always get matched with Nato. are matched Russia together anyways in a fair bit of matches . i really dont see it as an issue.

 

Past a certain B.r the t72M1 would become redundant anyways.

 

Think Leo2a4 or even further possibly leopard 2a5 if it goes that far, facing off against a T90A and a T80U.

 

Frankly its shows the bias of some here supporting US based derivatives of tanks but  ironically being against Russian ones. Only reason Gajin focused on western German stuff is because they had some of their own In house designs IE leopard 1 and eventually Leopard 2. AFAIk they never denied that they wouldn't ever again  add any East German content

Edited March 18, 2018 by kev2go