tanks/vehicles T-72M1 (GDR) - German tree, Tier 6 MBT.

[SalrazZ 0]

Wouldn't this be a bit confusing for SB? 

[Borotovas 4,500]

22 hours ago, SalrazZ said:

Wouldn't this be a bit confusing for SB? 

 

The East German vehicles simply need to have their historical east German markings on them. And if East Germany will be in the game, they will play on USSR teams.

[Necrons31467 14,236]

23 hours ago, SalrazZ said:

Wouldn't this be a bit confusing for SB? 

 

Just put them on the Sovjet side.

[kamikazi21358 998]

On 01/08/2018 at 12:39, Necrons31467 said:

 

Just put them on the Sovjet side.

This is why I want East forces, SB currently is NATO vs WARSAW PACT, ie Everybody vs Russia.  It wouldn’t solve the issue obviously, but hopefully EG forces in SB would help MM just a little.  Since SB his handled in the event tab, it wouldn’t be hard to filter East German forces and W.Ge forces, as well it gives the oportunity to use the MiG-15bis in SB (as well as any other E.German equipment they may add, hint hint nudge nudge).

[BIAS_Remover 46]

Since nearly every nation in this game have US-Tech or modified variants of them in their TT, i see no point in refusing to add soviet tech to the germans. T-55, T72, BMP-1, T34-85 where all used by the GDR.

 

[Jocky_Strappers 1,230]

On 02/08/2018 at 14:03, kamikazi21358 said:

This is why I want East forces, SB currently is NATO vs WARSAW PACT, ie Everybody vs Russia.  It wouldn’t solve the issue obviously, but hopefully EG forces in SB would help MM just a little.  Since SB his handled in the event tab, it wouldn’t be hard to filter East German forces and W.Ge forces, as well it gives the oportunity to use the MiG-15bis in SB (as well as any other E.German equipment they may add, hint hint nudge nudge).

understandable needs, but since the East Germans are using Russian tank tech it does not do anything for Russia other than just have weaker versions of their best tank on their side; because the Russians will still just have the same armor doctrine with very little diversity. the 72 is just a budget t64 after all and that said, it would end up being like how the xm1 hurt the American teams in top tier. they will become deadweights before they become useful. Slapping a German flag on a Russian tank won't make any real changes other than aesthetics.

On 02/08/2018 at 14:36, JStrike141 said:

Since nearly every nation in this game have US-Tech or modified variants of them in their TT, i see no point in refusing to add soviet tech to the germans. T-55, T72, BMP-1, T34-85 where all used by the GDR.

 

I also see no point in America not being given the Leopard2AV either since we were provided with two to compete against the XM1 designs. Or an American Mig premium since historically a defector in North Korea had his captured mig examined for a proper rival to be designed.

[kamikazi21358 998]

7 hours ago, CaptainBallistic said:

understandable needs, but since the East Germans are using Russian tank tech it does not do anything for Russia other than just have weaker versions of their best tank on their side; because the Russians will still just have the same armor doctrine with very little diversity. the 72 is just a budget t64 after all and that said, it would end up being like how the xm1 hurt the American teams in top tier. they will become deadweights before they become useful. Slapping a German flag on a Russian tank won't make any real changes other than aesthetics.

I also see no point in America not being given the Leopard2AV either since we were provided with two to compete against the XM1 designs. Or an American Mig premium since historically a defector in North Korea had his captured mig examined for a proper rival to be designed.

It would be true that the T-72 version would be subpar compared to the T-64, but frankly I heard that excuse before and I disagree with it: if we not add vehicles purely based on “it wasn’t good enough”, we could basically remove 3/4ths of all vehicles from the game, based on inferior variants.  I believe if it was in the timeline of War Thunder, and it was produced/used on a non-prototype scale, it shouldn’t be a why? but rather why not? scenario.  The Japanese have US post war tanks that were exported to the country as an option for use, the French do too as well, completely discluding aircraft from this.  Easy Germany is a major faction of the Cold War, armed with vehicles that can compete on the WT scale and timeframe.  T-34-85M, PT-76, BMPs, T-54/55s, T-62s, T-72s are all vehicles used by E.Germany, and not by a “4 were exported” amount, in a WW3 scenario as well as USSR forces as well obviously, we would have seen fair sized divisions of these German controlled tanks on the modern battlefield.  And the T-72M would not have been on par with the T-72s of the USSR, but they still would be tanks that can be reperesented, and may have a small decrease in BR because of it making them relevant.  (And if they were not relevant, they would still be there for players to play, because they may not be Leopard 1s, some players may still be interested in trying them).

And that is also with the T-72 mentioned, E.Germany also had their T-55s and T-62s, as well as the other vehicles; at their BR and in SB they definatly are not poor-inferior tanks by any stretch of the imagination.  As well, the PT-76 and T-34-85M (the 60s modernized version would be good since it was exported, would be in Br 6 range, maybe even 7) would be exteremly beneficial in the German tree at their BRs, many complaints I hear from German players is at the Br 6-7 range Germany has issues because they lack tanks with any post war ammunition or value at all, and with the T-34-85M would also solve the problem of BR 6-7 being completely void of any “brawlers” in the German tree, players kept arguing with me earlier this week even that when paired alone, Germany can’t take points that well because all of their tanks in Br 6.0-7.3 range are completely void of “brawling” capabilities and while sitting back and using German WW2 vehicles how they were meant to be used, they lose because the allies capture all the points, whether be by getting there without resistance or killing the WW2 tanks that are there that can’t really fight in CQC effectively.

As well as the issue I have said, that Germany could in small amounts help the Russian side of top tier SB for MM purposes, although unless they add more advance T-72s into the tree, the T-72M wouldn’t be very good unless it got into the 7.7-9.3 SB range.  Which about that exact range, it wouldn’t just help just 9.0-10.0 range, that isn’t the only top tier WPvNATO range in SB, there is also the 6.some-7.7 range with the T-44s and T-54s, and the 7.7-9.3 range with the T-55s and T-62s, which also is again Russia vs Everybody.  Really I can’t see how adding East German Ground forces would cause more harm than good really.

 

The Leopard 2AV isn’t the same argument though as above, the 2AV wasn’t sent to the USA in the hundreds: 2AV if I recal is a prototype that can be counted with fingers, while East Germany recived almost 550 T-72 MBTs for active service until the collapse of the USSR.  If it was a premium or an event tank, that would make more since.

 

I wouldn’t see a problem with a MiG-15 US premium or event aircraft,  it the issue is there are no rank 5 premium aircraft.  Either you would have to wait a couple years for them to add rank 6 or more logically it could make a good event plane.

[Jocky_Strappers 1,230]

14 hours ago, kamikazi21358 said:

I believe if it was in the timeline of War Thunder, and it was produced/used on a non-prototype scale, it shouldn’t be a why? but rather why not? scenario.  The Japanese have US post war tanks that were exported to the country as an option for use, the French do too as well, completely discluding aircraft from this.  Easy Germany is a major faction of the Cold War, armed with vehicles that can compete on the WT scale and timeframe.  T-34-85M, PT-76, BMPs, T-54/55s, T-62s, T-72s are all vehicles used by E.Germany, and not by a “4 were exported” amount, in a WW3 scenario as well as USSR forces as well obviously, we would have seen fair sized divisions of these German controlled tanks on the modern battlefield.

 

And that is also with the T-72 mentioned, E.Germany also had their T-55s and T-62s, as well as the other vehicles; at their BR and in SB they definatly are not poor-inferior tanks by any stretch of the imagination.

 

As well as the issue I have said, that Germany could in small amounts help the Russian side of top tier SB for MM purposes, although unless they add more advance T-72s into the tree, the T-72M wouldn’t be very good unless it got into the 7.7-9.3 SB range.  Which about that exact range, it wouldn’t just help just 9.0-10.0 range, that isn’t the only top tier WPvNATO range in SB, there is also the 6.some-7.7 range with the T-44s and T-54s, and the 7.7-9.3 range with the T-55s and T-62s, which also is again Russia vs Everybody.  Really I can’t see how adding East German Ground forces would cause more harm than good really.

4

hope u don't mind, I edited the quote to include only portions talking about the t72m.

 

I am not making the statement that adding east Germany vehicles will cause more harm than good. What I am stating is that it would change nothing as the armor doctrine of East Germany would be just about the same with the t72m as the USSR leaving no change to the Nato vs Warsaw dynamic problem that we have in regards to armor diversity affecting a currently restricted playstyle for Russian MBT's facing western forces. It may be a neat vehicle to have sure But I think there needs to be something we have not considered yet that would make the everyone vs Russia more interesting than a t72 with a German flag on it. As a component to help the Russian forces with German allies in SB I really don't see a difference other than that flag. If I was an Abrams or leopard operator I would not be able to differentiate German and Russian tanks and change my strategy based on a flag, because in my scope all I see is a Russian tank with same if not weaker armor, gun, and mobility as the other three Russian MBT's currently available.

 

Is it good to have? For the non-simulator players, I am sure it is. But I cannot see how it will do anything besides beef up the German lineup even more. Also, such an MBT with stabilizer and gun I just don't see it going below 8.7 br.

[kamikazi21358 998]

2 hours ago, CaptainBallistic said:

hope u don't mind, I edited the quote to include only portions talking about the t72m.

 

I am not making the statement that adding east Germany vehicles will cause more harm than good. What I am stating is that it would change nothing as the armor doctrine of East Germany would be just about the same with the t72m as the USSR leaving no change to the Nato vs Warsaw dynamic problem that we have in regards to armor diversity affecting a currently restricted playstyle for Russian MBT's facing western forces. It may be a neat vehicle to have sure But I think there needs to be something we have not considered yet that would make the everyone vs Russia more interesting than a t72 with a German flag on it. As a component to help the Russian forces with German allies in SB I really don't see a difference other than that flag. If I was an Abrams or leopard operator I would not be able to differentiate German and Russian tanks and change my strategy based on a flag, because in my scope all I see is a Russian tank with same if not weaker armor, gun, and mobility as the other three Russian MBT's currently available.

 

Is it good to have? For the non-simulator players, I am sure it is. But I cannot see how it will do anything besides beef up the German lineup even more. Also, such an MBT with stabilizer and gun I just don't see it going below 8.7 br.

I understand what you are saying.  I agree, the T-72M and others wouldn’t add much diversity to SB for the Warsaw Pact forces.  If I had to guess the BR of a T-72M, it probably would be 9.0 or 9.3, probably 9.0.  Although it wouldn’t add anything new, my main motivation like I said is it would minutely help SB MM because it would allow German players to try Russian vehicles; currently to participate on the communist side of SB forces you have to grind down the Russian tree all the way to high rank 4+, giving Germany East German forces will give one of the most popular nations the ability to play in the Warsaw Pact.  Although at the end of the day, you are right: it won’t add anything new.  I’ll add the T-72 obviously, but Russia will just get it anyway.  The idea like I said a couple times is to give another nation Russian vehicles to be played for the Russian side in SB, hopefully to improve MM; and it surely can’t cause any harm as I don’t see the problem of a couple of almost identical to Russian tanks driving around alongside the actual Russian tanks.

 

It also would be more of a temporary solution as well, I agree other things can be done.  If you wanted “to add anything new”, there are a few things that can be done:

 

The T-80s for the USSR will give Russia vehicles that will finally be on par with NATO tanks maneuverability wise, although very similar to the T-64 that it is based on, I think the T-80 will change things up because of it’s excellent all round performance that can compete with the best Cold War tanks of the other nations.

 

China would be a completely new nation that could be a added into the game, a communist siding nation during the Cold War, although almost all of their tanks may be very similar to Russian ones, their tanks do expecially as the Cold War progresses, say start getting unique Chinese twists that will make their nation to USSR’s forces similar but different.  This would be another viable option to add another nation to fight with the USSR in SB, but East Germany is a easier option to do for now, since China would take time to add.

 

More tank variants: in Gaijin’s uncontrolled dash to modern tanks, they completely skipped and surpassed many MBT variants, like I am talking about dozens of tanks in different tech trees.  Just counting Russia alone, we could have seen T-55s with composite armor turrets like the T-62M-1, T-62s and T-55s with T-72 engines, T-55Ms with ERA, T-62s with ERA, T-64s with 115mm guns, any of the T-72s that are not in game yet, Modernized WW2 and early Cold War tanks such as T-44M, T-44S and MS that are T-44s with stabilizers, T-34-85M (1960s upgrade with T-55’s roadwheels, 12.7mm HMG, APDS ammunition and maybe even HEAT-FS, nightvision and more (which doesn’t matter because Gaijin completely skipped NV, firing computers, thermal, etc. all important in modern combat)), IS-3M, ISU-152M, etc. etc. etc.

More non MBT tanks, many Cold War non-MBT vehicles have been thrown under the bus.

 

There are many more stuff I can suggest but these are just general suggestions and not directly related to the T-72M or anything, like bigger more realistic maps for these supercharged APFSDS shooting tanks, modern gear that has been skipped such as thermal vision and firing computers and night vision and more, etc.

 

These are all just suggestions though.

Edited August 6, 2018 by kamikazi21358

[SalrazZ 0]

Would be pretty confusing in Simulator battles

[Borotovas 4,500]

On 24/08/2018 at 08:31, SalrazZ said:

Would be pretty confusing in Simulator battles

 

The GDR T-72M1 would have East German markings and camo, so you will tell them apart. Also, the USSR will fight on the same team as East Germany,

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 07:17, Borotovas said:

 

The GDR T-72M1 would have East German markings and camo, so you will tell them apart. Also, the USSR will fight on the same team as East Germany,

Speaking of camo, here's an east German T-72M (I know, not M1 but still) with what looks like a unique NVA camo. Truth be told, I don't know if this camo was standard issue or not, but it is a T-72M, it is east German, it has the NVA markings and it has a unique olive, black, light grey camo:

[Borotovas 4,500]

On 16/11/2018 at 20:21, Stuhlfleisch said:

Speaking of camo, here's an east German T-72M (I know, not M1 but still) with what looks like a unique NVA camo. Truth be told, I don't know if this camo was standard issue or not, but it is a T-72M, it is east German, it has the NVA markings and it has a unique olive, black, light grey camo:

 

It sort of looks like this camo.

 

 

It seems to be unique to East Germany. I don't see any other T-72s having this camouflage scheme on the list below.

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/soviet_T-72.php

Edited December 16, 2018 by Borotovas

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

7 hours ago, Borotovas said:

 

It sort of looks like this camo.

 

 

It seems to be unique to East Germany. I don't see any other T-72s having this camouflage scheme on the list below.

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/soviet_T-72.php

Yeah they look very similar. This could very well be an unlockable/buyable camo for east-German vehicles, which would have Standard Soviet green as default camo.

[Milocat 4,854]

I wouldn't mind seeing this tank.  It could fit in the tech tree or as an XM-1 style premium.

[Borotovas 4,500]

3 hours ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Yeah they look very similar. This could very well be an unlockable/buyable camo for east-German vehicles, which would have Standard Soviet green as default camo.

 

That could work too. But the NVA emblem would still have to be on the tanks for identification.

 

59 minutes ago, Milocat said:

I wouldn't mind seeing this tank.  It could fit in the tech tree or as an XM-1 style premium.

 

I disagree, it should be in the regular tree. We have American tanks in the main tree, so there is no need to discriminate against the East.

[Milocat 4,854]

43 minutes ago, Borotovas said:

I disagree, it should be in the regular tree. We have American tanks in the main tree, so there is no need to discriminate against the East.

 

Well, I did say either, but you make a good point.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

3 hours ago, Borotovas said:

 

That could work too. But the NVA emblem would still have to be on the tanks for identification.

Of course, the NVA markings would have to be part of the standard camo scheme. Like on the Mig-15bis and Mi-24P.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Stuhlfleisch

[RanchSauce39 397]

yes why not. USSR tree already has the T72A. so adding the T72M1 would really just be T72A with 16mm HSS plate modification already installed and worse ammo option at best being issued only 3bm15 ( no 3bm22)

 

 

 

Besides for the arguments that Gajin isn't willing to add East German content since Mig15biS anymore is mistaken as this recent patch German tree got a Mig19S added.....

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

A small correction on the two pictures of the T-72s, those aren't T-72M1s, the first one appears to be a T-72MÜV-2 and the second one is either also a T-72MÜV-2 or a T-72M. You can differenciate these variants by the turret-armor, that in the case of the T-72M1 produces a protruding buldge on both sides of the turret-front, that does not go all the way down. Here's one example:

 

 

 

I've found a few more pictures of the first tank you posted and even though the website claims it is a T-72M1, it is not. It appears to be a T-72MÜV-2, which is the transitional variant between the T-72M and T-72M1, which received the 16mm add-on plate on the hull and a few other, internal features from the T-72M1, like an improved fire-extinguishing system, however, the turret was still the solid cast-steel one from the T-72M:

 

 

 

The second photo also does not have the add-on armor on the turret and is therfore either a T-72M or also a T-72MÜV-2 since I cannot really tell if it has the 16mm add-on plate on the UFP or not.

 

Anyway here are some pictures from an east-German T-72M1:

 

 

 

 

 

Source of the T-72M1 pictures:

 

http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.de/Bestimmungsbuch/5gepKetFhrmitTurm/51/T-72/T-72.html

 

Otherwise great suggestion, keep it up!

 

EDIT: Also yeah, the composite-filler inside of the turret of the T-72M1 is most likely kvartz, since the book "Kampfpanzer der NVA" by Jörg Siegert and Helmut Hanske refers to the material as being sintered, which of course can also be applied to sand, however I think if it would be merely sand, that would've been noted.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.

[leroyonly 4,310]

As the T-72M1 has been implemented as per Update 2.25 Sky Guardians,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.