tanks/vehicles T-72M1 (GDR) - German tree, Tier 6 MBT.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

11 hours ago, Zed_Spektre_7 said:

According to Wikipedia they used 5 La-9s from 1952 to 1956 by the Volkspolize (East German Police) before the airforce was formed

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin_La-9#_East_Germany

you mean this one?
they had no GDR markings on it apperently

Edited March 26, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[Monguntiacum 74]

I say no.

Because:

1) It would be a copy&paste tank. There is no real difference between T72 Sowjet and T72 NVA. Who wants to play T72, should play Sowjetfaction.

2) I'm also against the T34, Churchill, KV 1, KV 2 and M47 in german Tree. The KV1B is okay, because the tank was modified with german gun.

3) Regular Tanks in Tree of a faction should only be the Tanks originally built and used of the faction.

Prototypes and Captured Tanks should be Premium or Event-Gift (like M10-Ersatz).

 

Prototypes like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT_tank

 

 

Captured vehicles of factions also in game, only when modified like:

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/infanterie-pzkpfw-mk-ii-748e-oswald/

 

StuG 43 852(i) (a modified Version only used by germans)

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/Semovente_Da_75-46.php

 

or if no other faction would use them like vehicles of Netherlands, Austria and Switzerland (also Switzerland was lucky that Germany has some "problems" with the Eastern Front, so "Operation Tannenbaum" was delayed ^^):

 

Steyr ADGZ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADGZ

Panzerspähwagen DAF 201 (h) / M39 Pantserwagen mit  3.7 cm Bofors + 3x Lewis MG 7.92mm : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Pantserwagen

Sk-105 Kürassier : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK-105_K%C3%BCrassier

Panzer 68 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_68

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Monguntiacum

[kamikazi21358 998]

On 4/1/2018 at 9:31 AM, Monguntiacum said:

I say no.

Because:

1) It would be a copy&paste tank. There is no real difference between T72 Sowjet and T72 NVA. Who wants to play T72, should play Sowjetfaction.

2) I'm also against the T34, Churchill, KV 1, KV 2 and M47 in german Tree. The KV1B is okay, because the tank was modified with german gun.

3) Regular Tanks in Tree of a faction should only be the Tanks originally built and used of the faction.

Prototypes and Captured Tanks should be Premium or Event-Gift (like M10-Ersatz).

 

Prototypes like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT_tank

 

 

Captured vehicles of factions also in game, only when modified like:

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/infanterie-pzkpfw-mk-ii-748e-oswald/

 

StuG 43 852(i) (a modified Version only used by germans)

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/Semovente_Da_75-46.php

 

or if no other faction would use them like vehicles of Netherlands, Austria and Switzerland (also Switzerland was lucky that Germany has some "problems" with the Eastern Front, so "Operation Tannenbaum" was delayed ^^):

 

Steyr ADGZ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADGZ

Panzerspähwagen DAF 201 (h) / M39 Pantserwagen mit  3.7 cm Bofors + 3x Lewis MG 7.92mm : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Pantserwagen

Sk-105 Kürassier : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK-105_K%C3%BCrassier

Panzer 68 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_68

 

 

After reading this well crafted post, I have some things I want to respond to, I’ll do it item by item because of its length.

 

1). You have some very good points, but I still think the T-72M1 would be a good addition to WT.  It is true that the T-72M1 would be extremely similar to any Soviet T-72 added, but the M1 isn’t still identical.  It is a cheaper export version with very minor changes, meaning it would probably be 98% if it’s soviet counterpart, but there have been separate tanks added with smaller differences than the M1 and the Soviet T-72s.  It is also noted that American vehicles, both tanks and planes, have been scattered in other tech trees, and in cases such as Japan ground tree and M4A1 in the French tree, as well as some aircraft too, they really are just copy and pastes already.  But there also are a couple advantages to E.German T-34s, T-55s, T-72s etc. in the tech tree:

1. East Germany is still Germany, but it is a very minor excuse though,

2.  You can’t get the feel of East Germany in the Soviet tree.  Yes you can put E. Germany decals on, but they still scream at you in Russian.  Still very minor exude, but the third one is my #1 reason I want to see East Germany in game.

3.  Balance Simulator Battle’s que time.  Currently SB for late tier is Warsaw Pact vs NATO, but there is one major flaw with that:

   WP nations in game: Russia.

   NATO nations in game:  USA, Germany (west), UK, Japan, Italy (granted no real tech tree yet though, but I bet they will eventually), and France.

The problem is SB que is stack for NATO, which most people on the NA server I play on play the most of to begin with, while the other side only has the que of Russian rank 4-6 players.  Since SB is in the event tab now, East German tanks can be added, and they could separate E and W tanks and aircraft with the que: Leopards and stuff fight with NATO and T-55s and 72s and stuff fight for the Warsaw Pact.  Because now Germany would be able to fight on WP side now, the player ques would be more even, decreasing que times.  Instead of 14 min + SB que times, since now a player base (German players) that might be the Russian player base altogether to begin with can be split up, now SB would be more encouraging because que times would be less than 6-7 min a battle. (Hopefully)

 

2) I have no problem with them since they are historical tanks that that nation actually used after capturing (ex. Germany use not just a couple, but a surprising number of captured T-34s during the war), but I think they should remain gift/premium tanks.

Also to prevent players from committing virtual war crimes, these tanks’ camos should be imbedded with the controlling nation’s insignia.

 

3)  I understand your thinking, but that simply isn’t possible, at least anymore.  To do so would practically remove the French and Japanese tank trees, and other nations like Italy and possible future ones would simply not be possible.

I agree prototypes should be premiums, unless there is some sort of special exeption like a gap in tree that can be filled with tank that hade like 18 prototypes or something, which then they resive large repair cost or something to counter it and discourage it’s overuse.

(Ex. Instead of Tu-4s and B-29s getting 50-60k repair costs, or 109s getting 20+k repair costs, maybe it’s the I-185 that only had like 4 planes built to get the high repair costs instead, but I understand why it is there in main tree to minimize gap (and have grind extender) between rank to Russia and the MiGs.)

 

 

Also so regarding the Austrian tank, I guess it’s up to Gaijin whether or not Austria should be apart of the German tree or not.

[Borotovas 4,500]

On 3/25/2018 at 8:16 PM, dotEXCEL said:

you mean this one?
they had no GDR markings on it apperently

 

Yes, that is the one I was talking about. What happened to that thread? I cannot post a comment there.

 

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

for all those anti-copypasta peoples: T-72M1 Übergangsversion. just saying

[MCmaddawg 341]

I say no. Because we don't even have a T72 for the Russian ground forces yet. A better proposition would be a T55AM, which the GDR also used.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

7 hours ago, MCmaddawg said:

...Because we don't even have a T72 for the Russian ground forces yet...

 

 the T-72M1 isn't coming tomorrow...

[CK_16 791]

Only way....

 

And all capitalist German tanks here..

 

Spoiler

 

[Slipslime 660]

6 minutes ago, CK_16 said:

Only way....

 

And all capitalist German tanks here..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

This is still the only proper way it should be done. Let people play with the reskins if they like but for those who don't want to they never have to touch them

[CK_16 791]

Yup, my only issue with this thread is that possibility to have both Leopard 1/2 & a T-72 in your deck....Just no this shouldn't happen.

 

I really want them to add DDR so Russians can have a friend to now.

[MCmaddawg 341]

I would only be okay with this if only one russian tank was added to the German Tech tree. The airforce has a russian plane and an american plane, so I would agree for the ground forces to have the same. Since the German ground forces already have the KPZ, a shared tank with the Americans, they could have the T-55A, but the T-72 would be too op, having it in the same line up as leo 2K.

Edited April 6, 2018 by MCmaddawg

[CK_16 791]

Still would rather not see German drop decks have access to bother Leopard 1 and T-54 together ect....

 

 

[TempestRiser 525]

No no no... Give Germany what is Germany... there are a lot of Leo 2 waiting to joing the game  give T-72 to the russians the Leopard 2 to germans please !

 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

Very nice, I support this. :))

[kamikazi21358 998]

On 4/4/2018 at 10:03 PM, CK_16 said:

Only way....

 

And all capitalist German tanks here..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I think the E.German PT-76 would be a good addition too, they recived them too and it would be at the BR and rank where the German tree lacks any real light tanks, with the exception of the premium Ru-251.

 

I think it would be fine if they just added it to the regular tree:

since SB is held in the event tab, the vehicles can be separated accordingly. East Germany will fight with Russia (which will be good for que times, as I said multiple times in previous posts), and West Germany will fight with NATO.

 

Nobody cares about historical lineups in AB.

 

In RB, if you feel uncomfortable with NATO tanks and WP tanks in the same lineup, you can only just take one or another side of tanks.  Research of the tanks could be separated, making say a NATO tank require a WP tank to research, making this more feasible and possible.  But you still can take both tanks in RB this way, but I don’t think this will matter:

     1. Russia, Germany, and France can fight on the same side, and MM just throws random countries together so realistic NATO vs WP matches are rare anyway and you probably will see German tanks and Russian tanks fighting alongside each other 1/3rd of the time anyway.

     2. RB is getting flooded by players who hate drives that take more than 30 seconds to get to the front line and maps that are bigger and/or have any open space bigger than a typical wide street, so it’s not like half of RB players care about realism anyway.  Maps like Normandy beach (side to side version) and 38th parallel remind me of maps I would see in World of Tanks anyway, so realism is obviously not major priority in Tank “Realistic” Battles (note “ “), and feels nothing like Air Realistic Battles, where everything is the opposite with 4 minutes of climbing, really big maps, and historical matchups.  This is the main reason SB is my new go-to game mode for tanks, I love SB and if Gaijin gave it 3rd person view, markers for teammates, and mouse aim for aircraft, it would be how RB should be imo.

[kamikazi21358 998]

On 4/6/2018 at 8:16 AM, TempestRiser said:

No no no... Give Germany what is Germany... there are a lot of Leo 2 waiting to joing the game  give T-72 to the russians the Leopard 2 to germans please !

 

 

Why not get both?  Germany gets W. and E. German equipment, while Russia gets just Russian equipment.  And Russia won’t be cheated out on anything either: their T-72s were better than Germany’s T-72M1s and they would get the T-64s and the beautiful awesome T-80 (I really want the T-80).

[LoneliestBear 116]

They gotta categorize some of the vehicles in the Germany tree into West and East first, then make a proper matchmaking of West Germany with NATO vs East Germany with USSR.

[Banfly 588]

Another one of these threads... 

 

-1 all the way and I'll explain why:

• DDR offers no uniqueness, they're re-skins of tanks/planes of other Warsaw Pact nations like Poland and Czechoslovakia;
• It makes sense from a historical point of view to continue with the FRG-themed TT;
• Continuity: the premium mKPZ M47, Leopard 1, A1A1, 2K; both Raketenjagdpanzers; the Begleitpanzer and the Gepard (to name a few) were used by the FRG, thus the German TT should remain FRG-orientated and if you want variety then support modified American tanks that were part of the BW like the M48A2GA2;
• It's more practical to simply remove/replace the Mig-15Bis than to split the entire German TT to add re-skins of non-native designs/ copy-pastas;
• There's a plethora of actual modified tanks used by the BW such as the one I named above, among many others;

If you want to play unique modifications of soviet tanks made by WP nations, without having to play the SU nation, then support the Warsaw Pact minor nation, then just place DDR decals in the tanks that were used by the NVA.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Banfly

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

In my opinion, if it was used by Germany (GDR was Germany too) it should be a contender for the tech tree.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

2 hours ago, Banfly said:

Another one of these threads... 

 

-1 all the way and I'll explain why:

• DDR offers no uniqueness, they're re-skins of tanks/planes of other Warsaw Pact nations like Poland and Czechoslovakia;
• It makes sense from a historical point of view to continue with the FRG-themed TT;
• Continuity: the premium mKPZ M47, Leopard 1, A1A1, 2K; both Raketenjagdpanzers; the Begleitpanzer and the Gepard (to name a few) were used by the FRG, thus the German TT should remain FRG-orientated and if you want variety then support modified American tanks that were part of the BW like the M48A2GA2;
• It's more practical to simply remove/replace the Mig-15Bis than to split the entire German TT to add re-skins of non-native designs/ copy-pastas;
• There's a plethora of actual modified tanks used by the BW such as the one I named above, among many others;

If you want to play unique modifications of soviet tanks made by WP nations, without having to play the SU nation, then support the Warsaw Pact minor nation, then just place DDR decals in the tanks that were used by the NVA.

 

i tend to disagee... tanks should  be added from different nations if said nation is too minor for an own TT and a techtree is in need for gap-fillers.

Helis for example, we only had the Alouette 2 and  Bo-105 other nations have 100%-200% more. Here is a Mi-24 needed.
Or Jets (if we ever recieve them) Germany only used post war:
Cl-13, F-86K, F-84F, G.91 R/3, Alpha Jet, F-104, F-4  (other nations like the US have at least double the planes, so USSR jets are needed here as well.)

You see, would be be careful with the Copy-pasta argument here.... just look what west germany used

then again GDR was a part of germany..... forgot what i just said

Edited April 21, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[tavo89 381]

+1

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

+1

I said this before on the German ground forces thread and I'll say it here again the T-72M1 IS NOT THE SAME as the T-72A we're commonly used to seeing. The T-72A was rarely exported to any of the Warsaw Pact nations purely because the Soviets didn't want them reverse engineering its superior technologies. The M1 variant is a downgraded version, the same variant that saw combat in the Gulf War with atrocious results. It could not hold its own against the M1 Abrams we currently have in-game at least at medium to long ranges. If Germany (FRG) does receive GDR tech I'm not too concerned it will alter the game balance significantly. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Private_Wolk

[I_hate_usernames 7]

19 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

The M1 variant is a downgraded version, the same variant that saw combat in the Gulf War with atrocious results. It could not hold its own against the M1 Abrams we currently have in-game at least at medium to long ranges.

 

Just a quick note, the M1 Abrams we have in game is not the M1A1 that saw combat in the Gulf war. 

 

The T-72 was meant to be able to bounce 105's at the same ranges were they could penetrate them, which one of the reasons why the M1IP and the M1A1 were so fast to be developed. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by I_hate_usernames
Hit quote instead of Edit

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

6 hours ago, I_hate_usernames said:

 

Just a quick note, the M1 Abrams we have in game is not the M1A1 that saw combat in the Gulf war. 

 

The T-72 was meant to be able to bounce 105's at the same ranges were they could penetrate them, which one of the reasons why the M1IP and the M1A1 were so fast to be developed. 

I'm aware of that fact. All variants (up to date) including the original M1 and M1IP saw combat in 91, few if none were lost to Iraqi T-72s. Interestingly enough the T-72A was found after the fall of the Iron Curtain to have been able to frontally bounce the TOW missile I can't say the same for the export versions unfortunately.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Private_Wolk