[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

[AlmightyMike 1,080]

I have no idea what people complaining about.

 

Sure the Soviets can literally obliterate EVERYTHING with their undertiered one-shot wonders like the SU-152 but Meh...

 

 

But let's face it, i have far more fun playing with my British potatothrower aka teh Achilles (ironically it's technically an American tank lol Oh irony)

 

First i have to carefully wait till i'm able to take a shot at the enemies engine, not an easy thing when they are moving considering the severe lack of turret rotation on my Potatothrower.

 

If i'm lucky (and i sure as hell NEED luck) and managed to disable his engine then i need to pray he didn't see where the shot came from.

 

When he does spot me and start to move it's turret towards me, i have just one shot to take out either his gunner or it's canon breach, missing the shot means i'm dead.

 

If i do manage to take out it's gunner or breach then i have to proceed shoot his engine once again and when he's on fire again i can try taking a shot at his ammo which usually has no result and just gains me (and him) some more spawnpoints.

 

Then finaly i shoot his engine for the third time and technically he is dead, however to be sure that he is NOT repaired and ready to return fire and to make sure nobody comes in and steal MY kill i have to continue shooting him untill he explodes.

 

All of this assuming there are no other enemies to interrupt my little quality time with the random enemy tank.

 

 

Shots taken: 5 - 6 (when i'm lucky)

 

Time taken: Waaaay to long

 

End result:

 

1 enemy down but most likely the whole enemy team has now surrounded me and i'm as good as dead OR angry enemy tank has gained enough spawnpoints from me hitting him and is now on his way in a bomber for some revenge kill.

 

 

You have to admit all of this is Waaay more fun than just one-shotting your enemies...Cmon guys.

Edited May 11, 2016 by AlmightyMike

[Ysno 99]

only 95% complains about russian bias, the rest are good players.

But I don't and I'm terrible at this game 

[Stoikc 1,469]

that was an insult to ab/rb players, dear. who for some reason think they have some understanding of the gaming process with map, third person view, markers and aiming from a tip of the barrel instead of actual optics.

[Brown195 31]

German tanks have better ammo because they can actually reliably penetrate and do serious damage to other tanks. I often find myself having to use endangering tactics in my T-34-85 to ensure a penetrating hit. Remember, you can't do damage if you can't penetrate (Except if you're using 152mm HE, which isn't used often in RB or SB - Which is where Germans are the most effective).

 

I think the "Soviet ammo OP" or "Russian bias" complaints stem from Arcade battles, where players generally hit all the time and know if when they can penetrate or not, which makes it seem like all they ever do is penetrate you. If you play RB or SB with Germans you'll find yourself bouncing a lot more shots.

[Zetaris 267]

Tier 3-4 Germany still has a massive advantage against equal BR opponents on maps such as Kursk and Volokolamsk, as their shells have the best long-range penetration (besides British APDS shells). In those long-range environments, the lacking gun depression and poor penetration at range on Soviet tanks is severely debilitating (Germany generally wins on these maps, unless there's T-54s or something).

 

Of course, there's more close-range maps than long-range, but if Gaijin were truly biased, why did they allow Germany to have an advantage on these maps? Why not make the maps smaller to favor Soviet tanks?

 

I think it's more about developers making poor choices rather than bias, along with the inherent incompatibility of Gaijin's aims with War Thunder (to have a game that is historically accurate and balanced/competitive at the same time, despite the fact that history was never balanced), not to mention the difference in game mechanics and real life (e.g, I doubt every tank crew would fight to the last man. Simply being penetrated by, say, a 17-pounder is a good reason to abandon your Tiger and find hard cover, rather than sit around getting perforated by AP shells).

 

Same thing goes for air RB: some aircraft are simply better suited to the air RB environment (that being a closed in box + match timer + third-person perspective + HUD + both teams start from an airfield, unless bombers), as well as different playstyles (some players may dislike waiting for an enemy to attack at 8km, but will insist on flying an aircraft that requires this playstyle).

 

Bottom line is that the issues in the game can't be explained away with "Russian bias" while ignoring all the other variables. That excuse is inconsistent and stinks of ideology.

[StronkRussian 26]

Everyone complains about russian bias, and everyone who plays ground battles know that russian tanks are twice as likely to 1 hit you than their german or american counterparts. The reason for this is their ammo. Their ballistic cap shells are far more deadly than anything the other countries have, especially around tiers 5-7. Their 85mms will 1 hit you a lot more often than a german 88 will, and the only reason for that is their shells. They burst twice inside your cabin vs the one time at most the other nations shells will. These shells aren't taken into account in battle rating. 

People found this "ammo bias" in the statistics of the game, and made a thread about it. This thread got very popular, over 40 pages long. 

Then Gaijin shut down the thread. If you try to find it now or click a link to it from last year, it will bring up an error saying "you don't have permission to view this forum." 

Well we did it guys, we finally found a developer who care about their fans less than EA does. Ignoring your players just to feel nationalistic pride about the USSR's tanks isn't how you run a game company. 

Sorry you couldn't be 'Merican, but don't try to make yourself feel better by screwing over you game with unbalanced russian bias that is easily confirmed in the data tables for the game. 

 

You need to nerf or remove the russian's capped shells OR have them count into battle rating, which would make a lot more sense. 

never going to happen ;)

 

prime example... recent german bomb nerf and the announcement of a new russian, presumably imba tank on t62 hull ^^ (as if the russian line wouldnt have enough already, but meh, i like a new tank in my collection :D)

just do yourself a favor and switch to russian like me and 85% of all the other smart player. almost everything i see in tier 5 is russian tanks... for a reason ;)

other nations have just some niche usefulnes wether it is planes or tanks, but russian excels in total overall performace in 99% of the time in every situation.

 

planes: more mobility, napalm ammo all over, built in fire extinguisher...

tanks: stronk almost impenetrable stalinium armor, racecar speed and those nuke shells which regularly and reliably pen red armor indicators and at incredibly insane angles... i have seen no other nation pen at such angles as russians do.

 

stalinium and nuke shells will never fail you, Rujin Gaijin will make sure of that :)

Edited May 11, 2016 by StronkRussian

[causticmaterial 359]

RUSSIANAMMOOPPLZNERF

 

then theres T4 brits with HEATFS and Sabot rounds

[GodWentAFK 133]

This is a thread where everyone can share their experiences playing against or as the oh so balanced Russians. Ill start

USSR was the first nation I got to tier 5, quickly followed by the germans. I would guess that my K/D is at least twice as good with the USSR, driving the T 54 and previously the T 34 85, easily the best tank in the game for its BR.

 

So now my experiences to start

My last 2 RB games against the USSR. 

First, as Germany.

In my Tiger II H, I bounced 2 shots of APCR off the TURRET RING of a T 34 85. Then proceeded to bounce 2 more off the center of his turret. Then, after killing the target he was originially shooting at, he turned and 1 hit me straight through my 188mm turret armor.  Just to point out, the T-34 with standard ammo has 158 pen with normal ammo, 180 with the highest, and 148 with the ammo he was actually using. And he went straight through 185mm armor at 300 yards. The T-34 is so overpowered it is 1 hitting things it cannot even penetrate mathematically. 

 

Next game I was in the AC IV Thunderbolt, tier 5. Again, the first tank I encountered as a T-34 85. As he 1 hit the tank in front of me, I landed a PERFECT shot in the dead center of his turret ring. It bounced. 156mm of penetration bounced off the unsloped armor and weak spot that is the turret ring. Then we fired at the same time, and we both shot each other in the same spot; the front of the turret. I penetrated and killed his gunner, he penetrated and killed my entire crew, ammo rack, and fuel tanks. 

Occurances like these are basically every game, to the point where I am about to start playing Arcade so I get a chance to actually kill things because I will get to shoot at germans and americans too. 

 

Whether it's the bouncing mechanics being broken in this game, or the soviet ammo with so much more HE power than the other nations get, something is way off with the USSR.

 

I'm sure there are great stories playing against the russians, and I know myself I've gotten 20 kill streaks with the USSR and I've seen ever better on youtube, so those should be great stories too. Make this something gaijin can't ignore forever.

Edited May 11, 2016 by HasaDigaEebowai

[NightHawkF117 392]

Why exactly do these two get matched together every time? How am I supposed to fight a team when they have superior vehicles in every way. The leopard is faster than my Brit 8.0 tanks, and gets Heat-FS shells. the T10 has armor, and The famed 122mm Nuclear shell that always kills in one hit, and gets heat that I see used if the Nuke shell wont pen. Then you get the t54s that have penned my Chieftain from some of the stupidest angles I have ever heard off. (Ie my front is facing them and they go through the side armor). And they get teamed together,... so their weaknesses are easily able to offset each other. Russia being slower doesnt matter because they can move just as fast as Britain, and germany easily beats everyone to critical areas, then russia shows up and locks them down.... 

 

 

Stop teaming these nations together. Or atleast make it where all nations can be teamed with each other( Ie russia and brit vs Us and Germ, or Germ and Brit vs. Us and russia.) so it isnt always the same crap.

[DonReje 214]

Stay low, use your gun depression and fast reload speed.

[MalleusTempus 803]

All in the name of queue times, and gameplay be damned!

SB has a differing but similar issue, there its Ger vs everyone else at once

[Abelonenoble 24]

I have been wondering why sometimes I was shot by someone I couldn't even see over a hill or hump.  I thought, maybe I didn't pay attention or he just briefly poked out his head to shoot to me.  Now I don't think so anymore after a battle. 

 

I was in a Kugel against an IS2 face to face, over a pile of dirt or hump.  I can only see him with the third person view or binocular view, but not gunner view.  I tried to shoot him, with the third person view, but the shell just bounced off the dirt, because he is below the line of fire.  And he fired, the shells penetrated my turret right below the gun.  How is it physically possible?  Unless, the height of the bump is an adjustable parameter in the game-- it was higher for me, but lower for him.  there is a bias and advantage for him because he sees me as halfway standing out.  Pay to win? 

[Snake509 764]

What made you think he was Pay to Win?

[Snake509 764]

I loaded into at least 3 games this morning with my 7.0 Brit tanks, and ended up facing 7.3 and 7.7 tanks...and my team had NO tanks above 7.0......I thought this issue was fixed some time ago?

[Azor99 26]

Hello everybody! 

 

Today i would show you how is messed up the BR in the 3° German tier! (Tank Arcade Battles)

Just look at the screenshot! My maximum BR is 6.0, in that battle I was using the Tiger H1, Tiger E and Panther D (All rank 3 vehicles) so... let's check which are the main type of tanks seen in ths battle:

 

Tortoise:               RANK: 4   BR: 6.3
Caernavaron:       RANK: 4   BR: 6.7
Centurion (mk7)   RANK: 4   BR:6.7
IS-2 mod 1944:    RANK: 4   BR: 6.7
IS-2 premium:      RANK: 4   BR: 6.7
ISU 122S              RANK: 4   BR: 6.0
Tiger II (P):           RANK: 4   BR: 6.3
Tiger II (H):           RANK: 4   BR: 6.7
Ferdinand:            RANK: 4   BR: 6.7
Jagdpanther:        RANK: 4   BR: 6.7
M25:                     RANK: 4   BR: 6.3

 

Now... imagine a Tiger H1/E or a Panther D against all these tanks that i've listed:
a Tiger VS a Tortoise for example, or VS a Ferdinand or Jagdpanther! The Tiger just cant penetrate its armors!

I have these tanks (Tiger H1, Tiger E and Panther D)  fully researched but they AREN'T enough good to fight these beasts... but they still have a similar BR! 
What do you guys think?

[attachment=199991:Capture_2016_05_11_17_36_34_597.png]

Edited May 13, 2016 by Azor99

[Idontknowwhy 87]

Why german tanks War II fight vs after War tanks ? 

 

Centurion/ Cearnarvon  > Tiger 2H 

 

-Better speed

-The same Armor

-Better gun low/up 

-Better penetration

 

German tanks 6.7 vs wolrd havent chance to 50 % win ratio, this is joke ...

 

 

Realistic map next joke... To small... 10 s after start battle - american t92 snipe me from 2000 meters... This is joking game... 0 balanced

Edited May 13, 2016 by Idontknowwhy

[Azor99 26]

The unbalance starts from rank 3 in every nation, from what i saw

Edited May 13, 2016 by Azor99

[N0RBY 0]

Azor not all time fun to play in 6.7. I have one 6.7 tank in german and russian tree too and what i got? Jagdtiger, t54, and much more 7.7br tanks what i cant hit. (Sorry if my english is not perfect.)

[NightHawkF117 392]

How many times do american and british teams have to get wiped out before you GAIJIN Change the way MM works the teams. Russia and Germany together are too Overpowered vs America and Britain. FIX IT!

[TheAceOfAces 2,943]

Tbh i think it looks pretty Balanced.

 

M60 + Centurion Vs. Leopard + T54

M103 + Chieftan Vs. Maus + T10..

 

All are capable of killing each other with 1 shot, So... i dont really see problem tbh ?..

[pogglethelesser 783]

m60 is significantly worse than the other 8.0s. and a lot of US players love uptiering their M46s and M41s into 8.0 battles just because. Also a lot of US teams end up using T32... why? it's a terrible tank at its BR. really comes down to US having two viable options being the M47 and M60, M47 sucks without HEATFS, M60 is mediocre all around

[Radom 4,245]

To be honest GE/RU have a pretty good mobility to start with. Guess it all comes down to play style and teams.

[Choogleblitz 10,205]

Hate to say the truth, but the Soviets just decreases Germany's potential. Worst thing to have on my team is the Soviets as they're extremely less effective than a Leopard. 

[MadSlovenian 1,357]

Hate to say the truth, but the Soviets just decreases Germany's potential. Worst thing to have on my team is the Soviets as they're extremely less effective than a Leopard.

Well, last 3 rounds i played today i yolod all enemy team full of leos and m60s and won all three times and got into the first place. T54 is very competitive as it has an aphe shell, great mobility and it one shots leos and it can kill other tanks via weakspots.

[Choogleblitz 10,205]

Well, last 3 rounds i played today i yolod all enemy team full of leos and m60s and won all three times and got into the first place. T54 is very competitive as it has an aphe shell, great mobility and it one shots leos and it can kill other tanks via weakspots.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I'd take a Leopard over the T-54. It's the inferior vehicle.