[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

[Naik_NL@psn 1,316]

Battle rating should be an indicator for what said vehicle is capable off in theory. That’s all modules included. Having less modules installed doesn’t diminish what it should be capable off when fully loaded.

If you would lower the BR of a vehicle according to the amount of modules installed, how much would you lower it, what would each module be worth?

As the BR is conjured up in a shady way at the moment, how would you think the result would be satisfactory with the addition of modules in place?

And finally, with the current BR spread would you think the final difference between a fully loaded vehicle against a stock vehicle would lead to any different matchmaking? It only would if the difference between versions would be more than 1 BR point, and that’s too much in relation to the total BR from a vehicle.

 

So I have to reply with No...

[Theocletian 86]

It is worth thinking about for some guns like the Mk II Hispano and the QF 17 pounder that benefit a great deal from mods reducing spread. But I don't think a BR adjustment is the right way to address it.

[tizianenel 2,124]

I'd rather see the difference between stock and spaded performance reduced, at least in planes.

[ColdHeat 2,100]

Since my thread got closed as there's this "official thread" here to discuss it:

 

The new german premium T-34 747 got the wrong reload rate. It's 9 seconds compared to the 8.4 seconds of the soviet T-34 1942 despite that they share the same turret and gun.

 

Possibly the creator of this tank just copied the ETZ stats but the 747 got the ETZ's body AND the 1942's hexagonal tower

[Necrons31467 14,236]

If there's any vehicle that fits this criteria, it would be the M48 Patton, as a stock vehicle, I'd say it'd make a decent 7.0, with HEATFS unlocked, it should be 7.7.

 

 

Perhaps the player could be given the option of disabling their HEATFS shell, even if they have unlocked it, to reduce their vehicle's BR.

[Maj_Fox@psn 521]

Most vehicle that have access to the APCR round get a bump in BR yet most posts I've read on ammo recommend using the APHE type round.

 

So you play a higher BR range with the same tank previous to it.

 

M4A2 76W to M4A3 76W

 

Tiger H1 to Tiger E

 

T34 57 and the perm 1943 version.

 

The APCR should make you more deadly, therefore higher BR. Sadly your not more deadly but play in tougher games.

 

Cheers.

[Snake509 764]

M47, perfect point to this....damn near useless until it gets HEAT rounds.....

[Conraire 5,723]

I'd like to suggest that the US M47 gets lowered to 7.3BR across the board, now that the M48a1 is in game.  Remove M431 HEAT-FS and replace it with M348A1 HEAT-FS, on the M47's ammo load.  M348A1 should have a penetration performance of about 127mm at 30degree's from Horizontal, I do have a document to back that up. 

[Serpiko82 7,875]

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/318201-update-13062016-server-update/#entry6238147

Bombers limited to 4 per team in RB

[ColdHeat 2,100]

I'd just prefer if every team get's an equal amount of bombers +/-1 max. 

[hax0rsp00n 426]

Why is the T-29 at 6.7 and the t-32 at 7.3, they should lower the t-32 because it is useless against these new missile tanks or add a 9.0 for tanks which in my opinion would be a much better idea.  Cause im tired of fighting tanks from the 50s and 60s in my poor little t-32 from 1946!  And the only reason why that tank is there is because of its superior "armor"  which doesnt do crap against these missiles and HEATFS! So whats the deal gajin?

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/318201-update-13062016-server-update/#entry6238147

Bombers limited to 4 per team in RB

LEL you silly boi why don't you look at this then

[Kyynel 90]

Arcade tank matchmaking... Its like being in school and being beated  and bullied by pupils who are 5 years older than you. I have played War thunder more than 3 years now and mostly on airplanes. I started playing tanks recently and my tank crews are a bit newbies. I am getting +1 battle rating higher tanks against me all the time, while my tanks are missing parts and decent ammo, sometimes my tanks dont have even theoretical chance to penetrate enemy tanks. I really dont see playing tanks any fun because of this stupid matchmaking and I am considering quitting this whole game because of this unfair system. I guess your developers havent even tested playing +1 br with stock tanks & crews and I guess that you dont even read any negative feedback, gg and goodbye.

[thesilverfox 3]

Gentlemen, I am not sure if I am using the right area to talk about the Br problem. I have been playing this game for about a year now and have seen this problem constantly. My tanks are all less than 4.0 except for one 4.3. During play I see opposing tanks of Br 5.0 and 5.3. When I bring one 5.0 tank into my lineup I am now battling 5.7 opponents. What is going on with this? I can't even scratch these tanks and do not last very long unless I hide. I understand that it may be difficult to balance the battles but surely there is a better way than what is going on. I like to play all of the nations but this problem is in all the nations. Is this really how you have set up this game. I really enjoy the game but these flaws make the game less enjoyable than if the Br battle ratings where more even. This is not a complaint about one particular nation. As I stated it happens in all nations. I thank you for taking the time to read and look forward to your comments.

 

   thesilverfox.

[Kamekichi9 2]

Jet match making is totally screwed...
8.0 and 9.0 should have separate battles instead of being together. 8.0s can't do anything against 9.0s. I can't have fun in my Vampire. I almost never see any other 8.0 because no one plays them.
Another thing to consider is...
CL-13 should fight with the allies, not with the Soviets. If that's anyway possible to do.

[DanDanBinks 1]

i just came out of match against 6 tu-4's... what happened to the 4 bomber limit? gaijin fails. also in a b-29 you fly and prey they don't get to you. but in a tu-4 you can dive straight into the gates of hell and let your gunners rape everything around you how is that fare?...

[cowboycomando54 324]

Arcade tank matchmaking... Its like being in school and being beated  and bullied by pupils who are 5 years older than you. I have played War thunder more than 3 years now and mostly on airplanes. I started playing tanks recently and my tank crews are a bit newbies. I am getting +1 battle rating higher tanks against me all the time, while my tanks are missing parts and decent ammo, sometimes my tanks dont have even theoretical chance to penetrate enemy tanks. I really dont see playing tanks any fun because of this stupid matchmaking and I am considering quitting this whole game because of this unfair system. I guess your developers havent even tested playing +1 br with stock tanks & crews and I guess that you dont even read any negative feedback, gg and goodbye.

Now try having to put up with that while in the Sherman grind. For some weird reason Sherman are always up tiered. 

[_Kolonel_Klink_ 390]

My big beef with the game is that Ground Forces sim is limited to events. Instead of having issues with battleratings and uneven games a lot of the time, we get nonsensical tank selection all the time. I am speaking about tiers 3 to 5. Below that is generally a lot more balanced.

 

Gaijin really need to separate WWII tanks, WWII concept tanks (built on WWII tech but never saw service in it) and post war tanks.

 

Why do I have to face T54's, IS3/4M, in my M46 Tiger or Tiger 2? I cannot penetrate them from the front at all, but they can. How is that balanced? How is it fair? The answer is that it ISN'T!

 

The available tanks in GF Events vary from balanced, to favouring Allies/USSR by tank selection, to favouring Germany by giving Allies 4 less players per match.

 

Any who plays high tier ground forces could rebalance the high tier tank events with their eyes closed.

 

Furthermore, the removal of random sim battles & replacing them, shows that even Gaijin don't believe their matchmaking is working!!!

[KOBRA77RO 5]

My opinion is that Gaijin is struggeling to survive, these days.......The matchamking system is broken, the vehicles - air and land are broken, the entire game is falling apart........The entire system is just a vicious circle  in witch the Gaijin team is feeling comfortable and they are not capable and willing to change anything. The "random" daily rewards are just a scam, the matchmaking is a bad joke, the tanks mechanics are more hilarious than the "Looney Toons" and the planes are just a random roullete- dependig on the developers mood, from a certain day, after the annoying "daily update" you got a losing streak series with most of the nations, except the russian planes................And this is just idiotic, frustrating and sickening.  Is the best way to make the players to start hating the game more and more each day, and finally to quit playing it..........I started playing WT long time ago, and i've seen how it's quality came from bad to worst each day, with every update they made.........Also i have seen the player base getting smaller each day, due to the lack of interest of improving the game from the Gaijin team, so i will not be surprised if it will be less than a year until the entire "Gaijin card castle" gonna fall down and this product will be out of bussines. By the way: regarding the tank mechanics: in what S.F movie did the dev. team witnessed tanks drifting on each turn, especially the WW2 era tanks?

Edited June 19, 2016 by KOBRA77RO

[Nomad_Gaming 6,221]

snip

 

 By the way: regarding the tank mechanics: in what S.F movie did the dev. team witnessed tanks drifting on each turn, especially the WW2 era tanks?

Are you playing arcade?

 

oh, and:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG-pQbEmjRA[/youtube]

 

and:

 

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ti7z807Dmk[/youtube]

 

So yes, given the right conditions, tanks can drift in real life. They can also flip over while trying to drift, as an unlucky T-72B3 found out during this year's tank-triathlon.

[lowbudgetman 241]

I don't know what happened but i'm just not having "fun".

I know all the german players are, tho.

Takes them 2 seconds to get to a good spot, they turn their entire tank (because those flat, 0 degree hulls are great for bouncing every shell imaginable) towards me and fire away.

My k/d ratio this weekend is something like 10 to 50.

Simply put, there is just no easy winning with the russian tanks. Never do I go "gee, I'm so lucky to be playing soviet tanks, it's so darn easy I wreck everyone!"

Just bounced a 152mm, BR-540 shell off of an oblivious Pz. Kpfw. VI Tiger Ausf. H1 about 25 meters away from my SU-152

M18s? You're having a laugh. They're the equivalent of Leotard 1s. 100km/h, great gun and crazy reload, and who cares that it's a "glass cannon"? I'm only going to hit it if I catch it unawares. Which is rare. Because it's in a bush, behind our spawn, 10 seconds after the match has begun.

But Jagdtigers, Jadgpanzers and anything beginning with "Pz." take the cake, together with the big cats (tiger, panther, leopard, etc).

I've amassed 90 soviet vehicles and I must say, popular belief, once again is bs about there being some sort of "russian bias".

The ONLY vehicles i am sort of confident with is maybe the T-34-1942 and the T-54-1947. Even with those I rarely come out alive in when facing Pz. III or Leopard 1.

[ChampionWOW 5]

A few problems: A34 Comet's BR should be droped from 5.3 to 5.0 because in 4/5 matches i fight Tiger 2 and T-44.

                          Tiger 2 P's BR should be increased again from 6.3 to 6.7 because is still a tiger and that gun can destroy anything.

                          P-63 A10 ( russian )BR should be droped at 3.7 because i fight against KI-84 and i can't do anything against these things. :learn:  :learn:  :learn:  :salute:

Edited June 19, 2016 by vitaminaXyZ_RO

[Williams_World 2,793]

I've got a question, who thought making bombers indestrucible gunships would be a good idea this patch?

[MadSlovenian 1,357]

A few problems: A34 Comet's BR should be droped from 5.3 to 5.0 because in 4/5 matches i fight Tiger 2 and T-44.

                          Tiger 2 P's BR should be increased again from 6.3 to 6.7 because is still a tiger and that gun can destroy anything.

                          P-63 A10 ( russian )BR should be droped at 3.7 because i fight against KI-84 and i can't do anything against these things. :learn:  :learn:  :learn:  :salute:

Lmao.

 

A34 has a sabot shell that can effectivly kills Tiger II H to 500 meters and there will be like 1 in 50 matches, where you will see Tiger II H above 500m distance without an option to flank it.

 

Tiger II P has worse armored turret than Tiger I and a T34 with 57mm gun can kill it.

 

P63 A10  clubs everything and if you dont do anything stupid ki84 are a joke like every other plane.

 

Your request for changes is pure L2P issue.

 

Edited June 25, 2016 by BigBawsBarabus

[KOBRA77RO 5]

Are you playing arcade?

 

oh, and:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG-pQbEmjRA[/youtube]

 

and:

 

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ti7z807Dmk[/youtube]

 

So yes, given the right conditions, tanks can drift in real life. They can also flip over while trying to drift, as an unlucky T-72B3 found out during this year's tank-triathlon.

I sugest you to quit smokin' bad pot, and buy better stuff.......If you were paying attention to the drifting tanks in your vid's, you would have seen that those drifts are made in particular circumstances and conditions- wet concrete track, high speed, sharp turns......In a real combat situation, tanks does not go that fast and does not perform such maneuvers, because most of the time they are "out in the woods", not on concrete training grounds. Also, in a real combat situation, those turns are not performed, because you need a little bit of time to spot a target, acquire the target in your reticle and shot at it, and also you have to make sure that your target is down. Another reason for not performing such turns is that you do not want to brake your track grousers. Brake your tracks in a combat, and you're out of the game. In other hand, did you paid any attention to my reffering? If modern era tanks can reach high speeds to perform drfits and sharp turns, i was talking about WW2 era tanks, wich are the most common in this game. Put some eye glasses on, son, you're drifting from subject! Peace! 

[PantherAl 4,883]

Actually, it isn't uncommon for tanks to slide even in odder circumstances:  you get enough speed going, and try and turn too fast when the ground can't provide the friction: be it ice, wet pavement, loose dirt atop a harder surface, whatever, you'd get a slide.  It is all a case of mass and ground pressure and how it interacts with the friction of the ground.  Not weight: because it is spread out over the length of the track, the ground pressure is usually lower than you would think, low enough that mass and friction play a large role in traction.

 

The amount of times I have seen a new driver in someone else's track, or once even myself (OK, twice, but the second time wasn't my fault), do something like this is actually rather higher than you would think.

 

 

I agree, the slower overall speeds of tanks in WW2 by and large (There are some exceptions) would make it harder for it to happen, but it did on occasion happen.  Nor am I saying the way tanks drift in game is perfectly modelled, but it is getting better and better, especially when compared to where it was in CBT.