[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

[Drei_4_Grenadier 2,257]

Tbh i think it looks pretty Balanced.

 

M60 + Centurion Vs. Leopard + T54

M103 + Chieftan Vs. Maus + T10..

 

All are capable of killing each other with 1 shot, So... i dont really see problem tbh ?..

 

Tbh i think it looks pretty Balanced.

 

M60 + Centurion Vs. Leopard + T54

M103 + Chieftan Vs. Maus + T10..

 

All are capable of killing each other with 1 shot, So... i dont really see problem tbh ?..

Well, M103 is totaly unfair with AP so it's a not for him 

[TheAceOfAces 2,943]

Well, M103 is totaly unfair with AP so it's a not for him 

 

M103 has a 120mm tho, It can absolutely bore bowling ball holes in whatever it hits, I mean, Yeah.. Its gun aint got crap on the absolute hyper lethal machine gun that the Chief sports but.. Still a deadly gun.

 

AP... SABOT... CheatFS... At this level, It does not really matter what the heck you fire... if you know where to shoot, You will 1shot anything. 

[GodWentAFK 133]

It was really easy, I stopped playing the Tier 4 germans and American tanks I've been playing recently, with an average 2.0 K/D, and went back to playing the T-34 85 like I used back in the day, and poof, like that, I was getting at least 8 kills a game.

I went from being satisfied with 3 kills in my Tiger II H to being disappointed by only getting 7 kills in my T-34 85. I mean only 7? I should at least be getting 10, I can one shot anyone and bounce half their shots, after all.

 

I know this sounds sarcastic, and it kinda is, but I actually went from 2-3 kills a game to 7-10 by simply switching to the USSR and using the T-34 85. That says something. 

[blasterion 623]

Well you know what they say, if you can't beat them, join them!

 

Also I've found out that Japanese Air trounces Russian Air on a regular basis, it's pretty cool

Edited May 15, 2016 by blasterion

[ymecca 2]

So in the past a long time ago I remember reading a dev post from a senior developer, roughly a year and a half ago if I recall...maybe longer that stated Matchmaking used a algorithm based on a few criteria. First was player br, then players rank, and finally players skill and would then base the results based off of that. This was pre-"quantitive MM". However my question and point still stays valid to this day as I quit when I was consistently and I do mean getting on 2-3 hours a day and playing some games spread between air and ground. I would be uptiered against tanks 1.0-1.7 above me, and do not tell me 1.7 isn't possible as I had it multiple times and did submit a bug report and a specific request as to why. So with that said my question to the community and any of the esteemed dev team that maybe happens to read the forums or someone that can relay the message "Exactly how is the algorithm set to determine a players skill?" I quit the game for 6 months due to the MM and the fact every game was me fighting tanks above my tier...not saying I couldn't cut it or fight so don't jump to learn to play, I scored top of my team each time with at least 4-5 kills a game. 

 

So with that said I come back again and use same tanks I had before I left and guess what, for 8 days my MM was fair, I fought tanks on my same br, not 1.0 above mine and in some cases actually fought a mix as it should be of tanks above and below which was quite enjoyable and fun. Yet after 8 days something odd has happened and by that all of a sudden everything I see is 1.0 above me. This is me getting on the same times, same tanks, same game mode. Yet all of a sudden for the last 3 days straight it has consistently overtiered me in every game mode and match.to the point yet again the game is no longer enjoyable. So I ask, does the MM system base your kills and "skill" into account or not? Because when I do horrible I get lower tier fights, when do well I get overtiered, which seems counter intuitive to making a game enjoyable and fun to play long term. Anyways thats my question and the community at large can take this post for whatever you wish, I merely am asking a simple question as parts of this MM system don't add up based on what is shown in the dev blogs as to how the system works.

[_Rustle_ 532]

I merely am asking a simple question as parts of this MM system don't add up based on what is shown in the dev blogs as to how the system works.

 

You're not merely asking. You are trying to make a point, but in fact have tin foil hat problems.

 

MM does not use player skill. It may have for a very small percentage of players for a small period of time. That was stopped. I don't remember anyone reliably being able to identify themselves as one of these players. It was very likely based on win percentage. I never even saw a screenshot where a player had a MM penalty against them.

 

Right now there is no skill modifier for MM. If you are getting frequent games where you are at the bottom end, it's much more likely a result of player population at the the BR you are playing and the BR ranges above. There are many BR traps in the game. Tanks in particular is bad for this. Gaijin (sometimes) fails with a fair tank MM because it fails to consider where the player players are. A good example is putting nearly all German T4 tanks at 6.7 makes playing 5.7 tricky.

[ymecca 2]

Not a tin-foil hat issue, thank you very much for that...should I consider it a compliment or a defamation of character? Anyways, so how is it when the time frame for play hasn't changed, tanks hasn't changed, server hasn't changed, and the only thing that has changed is days played does it change so rapidly? I do believe I am making a serious question and would prefer not to be treated like a idiot for asking. Yes I understand br traps......been in quite a few of those.......god why you have to kill me so america tanks Q.Q. 

[Nomad_Gaming 6,221]

Well you know what they say, if you can't beat them, join them!

 

Also I've found out that Japanese Air trounces Russian Air on a regular basis, it's pretty cool

 

Except when the USSR team has Yak 3s, Yak 3Ps, and La-7s, and has the sense to climb. If that's the case, then you're most likely hosed when playing Japanese. 

[Sauce_B055 416]

What's with the matchmaking?

Besides the obvious reasons as to why it's faulty, the vast majority of matches seem to consist of Axis & USSR vs US & UK.

This (attached image) is getting ridiculous. Roflstomps like this arn't uncommon.

Is this deliberate? Is there something I'm missing in the matchmaking system? Because this doesn't seem fair to me.

 

In case you're thinking of roasting me for playing the T34-85, know that I'm only researching the USSR tree for the future AT Missile tank, because let's be honest, that looks fun as hell.

[Zetaris 267]

What's with the matchmaking?

Besides the obvious reasons as to why it's faulty, the vast majority of matches seem to consist of Axis & USSR vs US & UK.

This (attached image) is getting ridiculous. Roflstomps like this arn't uncommon.

 

 

Is this deliberate? Is there something I'm missing in the matchmaking system? Because this doesn't seem fair to me.

 

idk, T-34-85 is just easy to play. Good pen, good damage, good armour, good reload, good maneuverability. The only thing it really lacks relative to its in-game contemporaries is gun depression (which is why I don't go tobogganing on the sand dunes of Alamein - I just go to the centre of the map). I guess it's like the Leo 1, where it has everything that counts at that Battle Rating.

[Chemicalex 20]

Hate to say the truth, but the Soviets just decreases Germany's potential. Worst thing to have on my team is the Soviets as they're extremely less effective than a Leopard. 

 

The man speaks the truth. Playing 8.0 as US in order of preference I'd rather have Ger, then UK, then Soviets. t54 and t10 are inferior vehicles to everything that the other nations can sport at that tier. It's also why I'm a bit puzzled that Gaijin is adding another leopard when the first one already is king of the battlefield. Maybe add something to make the soviets a bit more competitive first.

[blasterion 623]

A6M5 is at 5.3 the same as Griffons and Mk9 LF spitfire. Which out performs it in practically every single way in addition to having better cannons to add insult to injury it even has more small caliber guns.

[MaxKayDee 0]

deleted

Edited May 20, 2016 by MaxKayDee

[hunter4574761 250]

Hi, I think the matchmaking and BR need adjustment in order to achieve a more balanced game.

 

For both air and ground forces, some vehicles are far more superior than its sounterparts at the same BR, and this is very common in top tier battle. I admit that for some vehicles, if the BR were lowered, the result would be a slaughter for others, however, the vehicle cannot stand a chance against its counterparts, like F9F panther. I admit that F9F is a good fighter, but it is no match for any other aircrafts at BR of 9.0. Furthermore, the MM is based on the BR, players may encounter enemies one BR higher or lower. For instance, gloster meteor enters a battle facing a squad of Mig17.

 

By combining two elements mentioned above, a situation in which one team consists of inferior fighters facing a teamfull of superior fighters. The screenshot is attached. My team consists of two hunters, one sabre(me) one venom, one meteror and one canberra. The other team besides one beagle and one la15, is full of Mig17. Some of you might say that we have two hunters and one sabre, but I need to point out two things: the first one is that hunter is not a dogfighter. therefore, it can only rely on hit and run tactics, during a dogfight, it means that teammates cannot get immediate support from others. Second, there is an old Chinese saying that two fists cannot fight against four hands. in this situation, it is wo fists cannot fight against four fists with knuckles.

 

Thus the MM and BR need adjustment in order to make the game more balanced rather than bias.

[AUTbert 673]

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/308682-1572101-balance-in-rb-air-battles-is-off/

[Badballie 1,219]

Ongoing problem they just never seem to get around to addressing, don't hold your breath.

[Twisted_Tea 327]

There are already threads out there about this topic. Please refer to those threads for any comments/questions. If all comments are posted on the correct thread then when they do have a chance to look at feedback then the developers will see all of the feedback on the single thread, not multiple. Which will result in better communication, faster read times so they can start work on the project and easier for normal people to answer their own questions.

[dоt 3,457]

BR and tiers not there for balance. They are there to produce short queue time. There's no other way to explain it's oddities.

[untergehen 1,442]

BR and tiers not there for balance. They are there to produce short queue time. There's no other way to explain it's oddities.

 

Short queueueue times *-*

 

Man, seriously i'm so fed up with the long queueueue times, gajon should compress stuff more. For example The bf.109 can climb really good at 20 degrees, while the hunter can't. So i think they would be a good matchup for each others

[dоt 3,457]

Short queueueue times *-*

 

Man, seriously i'm so fed up with the long queueueue times, gajon should compress stuff more. For example The bf.109 can climb really good at 20 degrees, while the hunter can't. So i think they would be a good matchup for each others

 

A6M3/5 is fighting P51D30 and Bearcans, which is kind of similar, it it not? )))))))

[untergehen 1,442]

A6M3/5 is fighting P51D30 and Bearcans, which is kind of similar, it it not? )))))))

kinda, but it could include everything in one bracket, ki-10 can outturn beercans no?

[Lt_Cdr_Trapp 176]

 

the moral of this allegory? its impossible to please everybody all of the time so keep an eye on the bigger picture 

[YanderesFTW 15,747]

 

the moral of this allegory? its impossible to please everybody all of the time so keep an eye on the bigger picture 

 

It's really not that hard to see that the Meteor Mk.3 doesn't belong at 8.0 tho... I don't think anyone would complain if it was brought down to 7.0.

[Lt_Cdr_Trapp 176]

It's really not that hard to see that the Meteor Mk.3 doesn't belong at 8.0 tho... I don't think anyone would complain if it was brought down to 7.0.

i agree its a much better match for the 262 

[Swagger897 21]

I just hope AAA is fixed, and more variation of maps for the Germans (well, really everyone) comes out. BR wise I think everything is fine for the aircraft/tanks I play. I've not ventured too far into the Nigel line, nor the rooskies, so I'm not sure what in that department is broken.