Tornado PGM 500/2000 - Germany getting screwed over yet again

[ueberman 79]

31 minutes ago, _Iluminas_ said:

as no one has answered u B,D and G variants

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source https://www.sipri.org/databases

no worries but thank you very much

[FurinaBestArchon 4,618]

45 minutes ago, _Iluminas_ said:

as no one has answered u B,D and G variants

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source https://www.sipri.org/databases

This makes me wonder why F-4F doesn't have 65Ds and 65Gs then. Those Mavs were clearly ordered for it, since, no other aircraft in service with the Luftwaffe operated them to my knowledge.

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

7 hours ago, Holouu said:

This makes me wonder why F-4F doesn't have 65Ds and 65Gs then. Those Mavs were clearly ordered for it, since, no other aircraft in service with the Luftwaffe operated them to my knowledge.

And why only two when it was possible to mount 6?

[Flame2512 3,384]

1 hour ago, NoodleCup31 said:

And why only two when it was possible to mount 6?

 

So far no one has found any evidence that Germany used the triple Maverick rails.

[FurinaBestArchon 4,618]

1 hour ago, Flame2512 said:

 

So far no one has found any evidence that Germany used the triple Maverick rails.

And no one ever will, per Luftwaffe Phantoms Teil 2 - Die MDD F-4F Phantom II im Dienste der Bundesluftwaffe 1982 - 2003 (Post WW II Combat Aircraft Series No. 07) written by Andreas Klein, a maximum of two could be carried. Granted the book also shows GBU's were evaluated, based on how they looked, GBU-12s so that could be interesting.

 

I'd be surprised if someone manages to pull out an image of an F-4F carrying 6 Mavs. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Holouu

[Thodin 6,783]

7 minutes ago, Holouu said:

And no one ever will, per Luftwaffe Phantoms Teil 2 - Die MDD F-4F Phantom II im Dienste der Bundesluftwaffe 1982 - 2003 (Post WW II Combat Aircraft Series No. 07) written by Andreas Klein, a maximum of two could be carried. Granted the book also shows GBU's were evaluated, based on how they looked, GBU-12s so that could be interesting.

 

I'd be surprised if someone manages to pull out an image of an F-4F carrying 6 Mavs. 

 

Sounds like this would be another thing where Gajin needs to show some good will and "imagine" something in favour of gameplay. Similar to the CM dispenser for the F-5 or basically all equipment of the Yak prototype. Cause just two Mavericks for 800 spawn points won't work. No one spawns the F-4F with just two ordnance pieces (and this dull grey in grey seeker pod, where you're unable to spot anything) for this high price. Its simply not worth it. The whole F-4F is a dead horse. Almost no CAS potential, no SARH, no all aspect.... meh.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Thodin

[Kingtiez@live 606]

This reminds me of the East German aircraft fiasco where they got weapons their aircraft never carried and technically couldn’t use. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Kingtiez@live

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

While the ASSTA1 may not be receiving the PGM series, there is an option for missiles outside of the Maverick missile

Spoiler

Spoiler

While yes it was primarily radar seeking, it also used a thermal seeker as well, so while anti-rad missiles are still dubious right now, the thermal seeker part could still be used 

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

1 hour ago, dotEXCEL said:

While the ASSTA1 may not be receiving the PGM series, there is an option for missiles outside of the Maverick missile

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While yes it was primarily radar seeking, it also used a thermal seeker as well, so while anti-rad missiles are still dubious right now, the thermal seeker part could still be used 

that looks awfully similar to the Meteor missile

[Flame2512 3,384]

On 01/06/2023 at 07:56, MythicPi said:

Its also just kind of weird as a concept since thw Tornado's radar is for all weather navigation and strike capabilties. Seems kinda dumb to have a strike radar incapable of atleast spotting ground targets...

 

The Tornado's Ground Mapping Radar (GMR) was mainly for navigation, finding large land targets (bridges, factories etc.), and finding ships. I've gone through the manual again and it seems that it can detect ground targets, but only at a range of 3 - 3.7 nautical miles (5.6 - 6.9 km), so it wouldn't really be any use in game:

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

23 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

 

So far no one has found any evidence that Germany used the triple Maverick rails.

Pretty sure the hardpoints are more or less identical to the US ones no?

Looking at recent additions and the fact that the F-4F has AIM-9Js I don't see a problem.

 

 

Not that it matters tbh because we have three 10.7 jets with ground attack capabilities but just a single tech tree tank between 10.0 and 11.7.

Edited June 3, 2023 by NoodleCup31

[tripod2008 593]

16 minutes ago, NoodleCup31 said:

Pretty sure the hardpoints are more or less identical to the US ones no?

Looking at recent additions and the fact that the F-4F has AIM-9Js I don't see a problem.

 

 

Not that it matters tbh because we have three 10.7 jets with ground attack capabilities but just a single tech tree tank between 10.0 and 11.7.

The LAU-88 series can't be loaded with the GPHE warhead equipt variants of the Maverick due to the increased weight which caused issues with significant bending moment in some configurations under load even though they would otherwise fit and not exceed the parent station's maximum weight limit, they could only be loaded on the LAU-117 series of rails.

 

Also the variants equipt with the HE warhead have been passed over as a balancing mechanism and have been replaced on the Harrier GR.7 by the -65D even though it only ever had the AGM-65-G-2, and retains the LAU-117 rail config. Even though the counterpart Kh-29T is in game at a lower BR (though the warhead itself is closer to the Kh-25T in practice)

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by tripod2008

[Godvana 533]

1 hour ago, tripod2008 said:

The LAU-88 series can't be loaded with the GPHE warhead equipt variants of the Maverick due to the increased weight which caused issues with significant bending moment in some configurations under load even though they would otherwise fit and not exceed the parent station's maximum weight limit, they could only be loaded on the LAU-117 series of rails.

 

Also the variants equipt with the HE warhead have been passed over as a balancing mechanism and have been replaced on the Harrier GR.7 by the -65D even though it only ever had the AGM-65-G-2, and retains the LAU-117 rail config. Even though the counterpart Kh-29T is in game at a lower BR (though the warhead itself is closer to the Kh-25T in practice)

 

 

I don't really see how that would impact the F-4F getting the LAU-88 rail.

 

If the F-5C and F-104S can get ahistorical or 'theoretical' flare launchers, then I see no reason why the F-4F shouldn't get the LAU-88. It's completely silly that the F-4F with 2 AGM-65s has the same SP cost as an F-4E with 6.

[Thodin 6,783]

2 hours ago, Godvana said:

 

I don't really see how that would impact the F-4F getting the LAU-88 rail.

 

If the F-5C and F-104S can get ahistorical or 'theoretical' flare launchers, then I see no reason why the F-4F shouldn't get the LAU-88. It's completely silly that the F-4F with 2 AGM-65s has the same SP cost as an F-4E with 6.

 

 

Yeah, thats also my main point. For other nations these small ahistorical tweaks, to make units playable, are not uncommon. No one making a fuss of F-5's with that irl non-existing flare dispenser. If you ask for something similar for Germany, no one wants to understands it. Cause 2 Mavericks for 800 Spawn points make totally sense obviously. 

[Lord_Prism 1,826]

On 02/06/2023 at 15:14, Faster_Boiiiii said:

that looks awfully similar to the Meteor missile

It does, the ARMIGER was a AGM-88 replacement, but used a dual seekermode similar to the Rolling Airframe Missile 

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

39 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

It does, the ARMIGER was a AGM-88 replacement, but used a dual seekermode similar to the Rolling Airframe Missile 

its unfortunate that it got cancelled due to cost...

would've made for an insane ARM

it actually uses the same propulsion as the Meteor missile

Die neuen europäischen Waffensysteme (airpower.at)

[Lord_Prism 1,826]

2 minutes ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

its unfortunate that it got cancelled due to cost...

would've made for an insane ARM

it actually uses the same propulsion as the Meteor missile

Die neuen europäischen Waffensysteme (airpower.at)

Okay thats cool AF

[_Iluminas_ 3,769]

31 minutes ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

its unfortunate that it got cancelled due to cost...

would've made for an insane ARM

it actually uses the same propulsion as the Meteor missile

Die neuen europäischen Waffensysteme (airpower.at)

Well we have a picture of it under a German plane soooo....

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

5 minutes ago, _Iluminas_ said:

Well we have a picture of it under a German plane soooo....

hell yeah lets go make a report

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

Tornado ASSTA1 (picture is from 2007, ASSTA2 didnt exist yet) with Taurus, Kormoran2 and HOPE (glide bomb with GPS and electro-optical guidance)

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

54 minutes ago, _Iluminas_ said:

Well we have a picture of it under a German plane soooo....

you know what...

Wayback Machine (archive.org) (very similar to meteor)

Wayback Machine (archive.org) (was test fired)

Wayback Machine (archive.org) (test fired or at least planned to be test fired with seeker)

https://aviationweek.com/germanys-bgt-has-carried-out-first-test-firing-armiger-antiradar-missile

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Faster_Boiiiii

[ЧВК Вагнер 13]

On 04.06.2023 at 00:18, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

Tornado ASSTA1 (фотография 2007 года, ASSTA2 еще не существовало) с Taurus, Kormoran2 и HOPE (скользящая бомба с GPS и электронно-оптическим наведением)

@Smin1080p 

The question is, if we have a target illumination container hanging in the photo in the middle, then the Tornado turns out to be able to use 2 GBU-24 on two extreme pylons under the belly. If this container is hanging in the middle, and GBU-24 is hanging on the extreme pylon, respectively, GBU-24 can be hung on the other side. Thus, we will be able to hang two GBU-16s on the wings or in the future HARM, and hang two GBU-24s under the belly.
I assume that this will slightly strengthen the assault capabilities or at least make more variations of Assault weapons rig.

[da12thmonkey 43]

23 minutes ago, DXPortShow said:

If this container is hanging in the middle

Unfortunately it's not

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

Edit: Mistook gear door for a second pod

Edited June 6, 2023 by BagelIsMyWaifu

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

Still @Smin1080p, any change the ASSTA 1 could get Kormoran 2 with INS guidance as long range strike option? Would that require a new suggestion?