tanks/vehicles Experimentaleintwicklung Kampfpanzer Keiler (leo 2 EARLY, EARLY prototype)

[Ruslan_DR 686]

And I found some more information on the tank in general. Quite a long excerpt from the page so I will post the source first. That way, anyone who doesn't want to scroll all the way down for the source won't have to.

Source: http://www.kampfpanzer.de/vehicles/leopard2

<SNIP>

 

Yeah I took that info and condensed it, read the first post. Whenever completely new information is found I add it to the original post.

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

cananda didnt rebuild the turret

 

it was the standard on all leopard 1 A3 and later

 

the keiler turret looks similiar to those turrets

 

pls dont post wrong information

[Jansza 65]

I'll vote no since I began playing this game because of the historical realism, the powercreep has ruined the game for me to a point where I mostly play T3 and T4. Stop the creep!

[Stronk_Memes 111]

I'll vote no since I began playing this game because of the historical realism, the powercreep has ruined the game for me to a point where I mostly play T3 and T4. Stop the creep!

There's no power creep here. Germany needs this tank to counter the seven post-war Russian tanks and six American post-war tanks. :/ Germany only has two post-war vehicles, one of which sucks (Jagdpanzer 4-5). ): The Keiler would be a balanced addition and the only real upgrades are mobility and weaponry.

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

There's no power creep here. Germany needs this tank to counter the seven post-war Russian tanks and six American post-war tanks. :/ Germany only has two post-war vehicles, one of which sucks (Jagdpanzer 4-5). ): The Keiler would be a balanced addition and the only real upgrades are mobility and weaponry.

TBF we all the MAUS is amazing and if you want to get on technicalities the IS-3 is not post war it just didn't see combat it was in service at the end of the war, but everyone always forgets that.

Either way this tank is needed more for its respawn ability than anything else

[Stronk_Memes 111]

If we can't find sources for the Keiler's turret, well, I have an alternate idea. If the Leopard 1A3 turret is similar, why not just use its armor values and apply them to the 3D model of the Keiler turret? The armor can't be all that different in thickness.

[Ruslan_DR 686]

If we can't find sources for the Keiler's turret, well, I have an alternate idea. If the Leopard 1A3 turret is similar, why not just use its armor values and apply them to the 3D model of the Keiler turret? The armor can't be all that different in thickness.

 

That's what we pretty much agreed to do. The values should be the same, the geometry is only very slightly different. The point is longer, while the top consists of only one plate.

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

That's what we pretty much agreed to do. The values should be the same, the geometry is only very slightly different. The point is longer, while the top consists of only one plate.

And there's no filling in the sandwich that's the important part ot causes for different RHA equivalency values

[Ruslan_DR 686]

And there's no filling in the sandwich that's the important part ot causes for different RHA equivalency values

well yeah we know that. We just have to remove that and we've got a keiler turret. Well, that and a slightly different gun mantle

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

well yeah we know that. We just have to remove that and we've got a keiler turret. Well, that and a slightly different gun mantle

And where will we get the values for a turret without the filling? We've thought of this already trust me I've been looking

[Ruslan_DR 686]

And where will we get the values for a turret without the filling? We've thought of this already trust me I've been looking

 

well i'm sure there's diagrams for the armor on the leopard 1A3. There should technically be diagrams stating thickness in "x/x/x/" format for layered armor, so if we take out the middle value, and there's only air, technically that middle plate should be roughly zero then.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Ruslan_DR

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

well i'm sure there's diagrams for the armor on the leopard 1A3. There should technically be diagrams stating thickness in "x/x/x/" format for layered armor, so if we take out the middle value, and there's only air, technically that middle plate should be roughly zero then.

Yeah it should and if the spaced armour gets correctly modeled in it will work well against the HEATFS shells :D

Just need to dig for these values that's all did any of the cut aways you found have the values?

[Nomad_Gaming 6,221]

I'll say no because it's largely out of the timeline and it's just too poorly armored. 90mm effective armor can be penetrated even by Br 3.3 vehicles.

 

I'd rather see later variants of the Leopard 1 in as opposed to this.

 

In contrast, I would also support the MBT-70.

[_Sync 1,028]

I'll say no because it's largely out of the timeline and it's just too poorly armored. 90mm effective armor can be penetrated even by Br 3.3 vehicles.

 

I'd rather see later variants of the Leopard 1 in as opposed to this.

 

In contrast, I would also support the MBT-70.

MBT-70 would roflstomp everything.

[Ruslan_DR 686]

I'll say no because it's largely out of the timeline and it's just too poorly armored. 90mm effective armor can be penetrated even by Br 3.3 vehicles.

 

I'd rather see later variants of the Leopard 1 in as opposed to this.

 

In contrast, I would also support the MBT-70.

 

timeline ends in 1969, this is the very brink. While I agree, this has a better gun that can pen turrets, and is a reasonable choice, besides, why not add both?

 

Also, i would support the 70 too (and do) but the thread has been around over a year now and does not seem likely to pass. this however uses the same gun, so i say why not put it in as a precursor at least?

Edited November 25, 2015 by Ruslan_DR

[Stronk_Memes 111]

That's what we pretty much agreed to do. The values should be the same, the geometry is only very slightly different. The point is longer, while the top consists of only one plate.

Excellent! So, I guess all that needs to be done is add in the original post that the top is only one plate and that the point is longer. c: Currently it just says that the armor was truly spaced.

Now, all we gotta do is hope they pass this on to the developers?

[Ruslan_DR 686]

Excellent! So, I guess all that needs to be done is add in the original post that the top is only one plate and that the point is longer. c: Currently it just says that the armor was truly spaced.

Now, all we gotta do is hope they pass this on to the developers?

 

I'll change it

 

and yeah, you know they won't. One interesting thing that WAS passed and never touched was the german Mistel flying bomb which used another plane with it's crew compartment replaced with a MASSIVE bomb. 

 

This; http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/63609-mistel-beethoven-device/ passed two years ago but never added, yaaaay because Germans can't have nice things. Man. Sure, our biggest bomb and we can't have it.

 

But yes i'll change the turret values.

[Stronk_Memes 111]

I'll change it
 
and yeah, you know they won't. One interesting thing that WAS passed and never touched was the german Mistel flying bomb which used another plane with it's crew compartment replaced with a MASSIVE bomb. 
 
This; http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/63609-mistel-beethoven-device/ passed two years ago but never added, yaaaay because Germans can't have nice things. Man. Sure, our biggest bomb and we can't have it.
 
But yes i'll change the turret values.

Hey, have faith buddy. (: We must always hold hope.

As for the Mistel, maybe they plan to add it, just the game mechanics aren't in yet. It's kinda like RATO pods for the Arados and the detachable trolley for the Komet. Maybe with Tier V tanks as off-balance as they are now, Gaijin will add this sooner. In the end though, it still takes time to develop the model and code it. (: I have hope!

[ComradeHampton 77]

Sure, add it.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Lilmesshead01

[Ruslan_DR 686]

If Gaijin seriously decides to add this, it would be a nice addition.  But, as we know, something Russian would have to be added, which will probably one-shot you all day, so go ahead and keep trying to get this.  At least you have that 120mm...Support the M60A1 as well!

 

isn't the m60 basically the same thing? I thought it was just a resurrected thread, and that it was the same vehicle. Eh, either way, this is most likely to be added anyways, but now at least we have PLINKY TURRET. Yes, try and AP those slopes. Even if they aren't the thickest, it'll be difficult to land a hit :P

[swanseasean96@psn 382]

I'll change it
 
and yeah, you know they won't. One interesting thing that WAS passed and never touched was the german Mistel flying bomb which used another plane with it's crew compartment replaced with a MASSIVE bomb. 
 
This; http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/63609-mistel-beethoven-device/ passed two years ago but never added, yaaaay because Germans can't have nice things. Man. Sure, our biggest bomb and we can't have it.
 
But yes i'll change the turret values.

To be fair Britain haven't got their 4 biggest bombs

Grand slam, Tallboy, 10000lb ordinance and the upkeep (don't particularly need upkeep but still one of our bigger ones)

[Stronk_Memes 111]

So, one thing I noticed we are missing is a penetration table for the gun, as well as types of ammunition it used. Anyone have sources?

[Ruslan_DR 686]

So, one thing I noticed we are missing is a penetration table for the gun, as well as types of ammunition it used. Anyone have sources?

 

considering the gun isn't THAT old we could probably just email Rheinmetall if we want to know.

 

I mean, they made both the gun, AND the ammo. so, uh, yeah. They're still around to ask and everything.

[Stronk_Memes 111]

considering the gun isn't THAT old we could probably just email Rheinmetall if we want to know.

I mean, they made both the gun, AND the ammo. so, uh, yeah. They're still around to ask and everything.

Fair enough. (: Who will email them though?

[Ruslan_DR 686]

Fair enough. (: Who will email them though?

 

They're scary germans and I have no experience dealing with cannon makers D: