tanks/vehicles GER Leopard 1A5 for 9.0/3 (with apfsds)

[Koty1996 457]

<<Sure, there may be materials whose KE RHSe exceeds that of RHA itself for a given volume. However, it would be impossible to have the necessary HEAT protection that composite armor was designed to stop in the first place.>>

Just what I meant 

1) it would be heavy AF

2) it would be next to useless against HEAT

 

then again... we got stuff like ADI now... harder and tougher than standard armour steel. But well... it is heavier.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

On 25.8.2017 at 11:18 AM, Nope said:

The MEXAS modules are rather thin.

i think ''thin'' is the wrong term
armour value is estimated to the thickness of the first M1 Abrams...

Edited August 27, 2017 by dotEXCEL

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:02 PM, Josh_Yong said:

I wonder if MEXAS would be a possibility for the 1A5

Only the Canadians used it on their Leopard C2s, I don't see why it would be an option on a German Leopard 1A5.

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

2 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Only the Canadians used it on their Leopard C2s, I don't see why it would be an option on a German Leopard 1A5.

cuz the MEXAS armor was made in germany as well xD, cuz the Leo is a german tank...

Edited August 27, 2017 by dotEXCEL

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Just now, dotEXCEL said:

cuz the MEXAS Armor was made in germany as well xD,cuz the Leo is a german tank...

Spoiler

 

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

*Laughs in superior German engineering*

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

4 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

  Hide contents

 

the whole thing was designed, build and tested in Germany by the, oh wonder, German company IBD Deisenroth Engineering . Look it up
http://www.ibd-deisenroth-engineering.de/
And guess what... the new AMAP amour for the Canadian Leo 2' are made there as well.

Edited August 27, 2017 by dotEXCEL

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

2 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

the whole thing was designed, build and tested in Germany by the, oh wonder, German company IBD Deisenroth Engineering . Look it up

Neat.

[Nope 10,634]

52 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

i think ''thin'' is the wrong term
armour value is estimated to the thickness of the first M1 Abrams...

 

good meme

 

On a more serious note, take a look at the thickness. Sure, it looks impressive because all the armor is sticking out unlike composite MBTs that have built in slots for composite modules, but the thickness is not special at all. The turret for instance is likely not to exceed 400mm LoS given the size of the grenade launchers relative to the module. The added distance between hatch and the end of the armor compared to the Leopard 1A5 is closer to the <100mm area, which would then mean 200mm LoS of armor that will provide less than that in terms of KE protection. Lastly, there's also weight. The C2 MEXAS didn't gain enough weight to match the LoS thickness of the Abrams unless MEXAS is a complete joke as armor with not enough density to withstand KE ammunition. I doubt even 90mm monobloc APFSDS will struggle, but it will stop the common RPG at least.

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

Your guess versing official estimates made by the producer and the military that is using it...

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

13 minutes ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

Your guess versing official estimates made by the producer and the military that is using it...

no no, he is a specialist. He has 100% served in an army and knows what such armour can withstand...

or he has studied material-sience and is secretly working for IBD Deisenroth Engineering and knows the exact composition and is just trolling us

Edited August 27, 2017 by dotEXCEL

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

2 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

no no, he is a specialist. He has 100% served in an army and knows what such armour can withstand...

 

Wait. You mean like you and me?

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

1 minute ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

 

Wait. You mean like you and me?

exactly

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

 

 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

7 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

 

 

When this thread started I didn't expect a Canadian tank to take over a thread about a German one.

[Retry 7,363]

1 hour ago, Mercedes4321 said:

When this thread started I didn't expect a Canadian tank to take over a thread about a German one.

Nobody expects the Canadian inquisition, eh?

Edited August 28, 2017 by Retry

[Josh_Yong 328]

Now would it be possible to see a Leopard C2/ C2 MEXAS in english tree as a gift/premium?

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

14 minutes ago, Josh_Yong said:

Now would it be possible to see a Leopard C2/ C2 MEXAS in english tree as a gift/premium?

I would say that the Leopard C2 is possible, though I don't know if the exact composition and effectiveness of MEXAS has been declassified yet.

 

Regardless, I don't think discussing the Canadian version of the Leopard is on topic with this suggestion for the Leopard 1A5s the Germans used.

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

3 hours ago, Josh_Yong said:

Now would it be possible to see a Leopard C2/ C2 MEXAS in english tree as a gift/premium?

 

Hmmmm, assuming that it would be Tier VI most likely than not, I would expect it to be in the normal tech tree or not in the game at all, as it won't be a Tier V premium.

[Nope 10,634]

8 hours ago, dotEXCEL said:

no no, he is a specialist. He has 100% served in an army and knows what such armour can withstand...

or he has studied material-sience and is secretly working for IBD Deisenroth Engineering and knows the exact composition and is just trolling us

 

8 hours ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

Your guess versing official estimates made by the producer and the military that is using it...

 

If there's information regarding the LoS thickness specifically (never once talked about the KE protection outside of the fact that the latter cannot exceed the LoS thickness of the module as evidenced by how composite armor is actually being improved upon multiple times), I'm alright with that. However, through scale measurement this doesn't add up especially with the fairly idiotic claim that this can withstand the same amount of firepower as the M1 Abrams. To do so would require a composite module that's far more bulky, easily approaching the 300mm mark for the module alone without factoring in LoS. Such a module should stick out a ton more than what's on the C2. From the angle of the first picture I quoted, the LoS thickness is very likely to be under the 200mm mark from outermost part of the module to the line separating the original hull armor from the composite hull armor. This leaves 340mm at best for LoS, with 140mm of it being RHA. Might stop 100mm APDS, probably won't stop 90mm monobloc let alone 125mm APFSDS. The turret module is simpler for LoS calculation, and the module itself seems to be around 400mm LoS, adding up to around 500mm LoS at best when paired with the original gun mantlet. This leaves a vehicle that stops 125mm APFSDS only on the turret, and it is unknown whether it stops something better than 3BM-15 as LoS calculation only helps to establish a rough limit that removes much overestimation of armor. I believe you're confusing me with another forum member that uses LoS calculations in a way that's more absolute in nature compared to me, and I wouldn't be surprised if said person somewhat harmed the credibility of LoS thickness as a variable.

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

Well, this discussion is pointless anyways. 

1) Gaijin won't introduce anything based on assumtions, estimations and scaled LoS calculations, we would need actual proof for our numbers

2) The C2 is in a bit of a pickle, since it's a German vehicle with a German upgrade module serving in a Commonwealth Nation...

So, I guess we can let the C2 rest for a bit longer.

[Nope 10,634]

8 minutes ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

1) Gaijin won't introduce anything based on assumtions, estimations and scaled LoS calculations, we would need actual proof for our numbers

 

But they will do just that with the T-64A.

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

Trust me, they have the data for that. It's not hard to come across the technical specifications for the T64, with how many countries used and use the thing.

Probably just took a little bit of money to go down the right drain to get them.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Rohrkrepiererer

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

8 hours ago, Josh_Yong said:

Now would it be possible to see a Leopard C2/ C2 MEXAS in english tree as a gift/premium?

And german Tank, euipped with a german developed armour package as a UK premium..... ähm NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN !!!!! 

1 hour ago, Nope said:

 

But they will do just that with the T-64A.

based on what secret intel can you tell that?

1 hour ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

So, I guess we can let the C2 rest for a bit longer.

just a little bit...

[Nope 10,634]

25 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

based on what secret intel can you tell that?

 

Gaijin's track record of not even getting steel right and trying to implement a vehicle whose armor protection isn't set in stone especially against different kinds of subcaliber. The best data there is on the armor is mostly just this one requirements document, which can only assume the minimum protection level required to pass and not the actual protection level

Edited August 28, 2017 by Nope