Maps, Map design Feedback

[Kamikadze_Guy 3]

Make Korea (38th Parallel) map balanced because a lot of people camping (sniping players from long distance that players cant leave base). In the map i marked camping spot (blue circle), spots there people dies a lot from campers (blue X). 

[Valcour 1,141]

When did they change Mozdok?  I admit that I had it blocked for a long time but I unblocked all of them and I got a new variant that I had never seen before.  It was fun, but part of that is surely the novelty of the new map.  (to me at any rate).   Good work map team!

 

 

[Siberia_Thea 0]

Hi,i found this in Domination #2 Mozdok

is Hesco barrier should be in a WW2 map?It really confused me about the times of this map.

[officericee 2]

dear gaijin as it has come to my attention that you guys have made a armored fight vehicle game and that is fine its fun to a certain degree but ones has to wonder where are the bigger maps, i did some research and i happend to have found that a ww2 tank gun can shoot up to 3000 meters (3km/3,280 yards) the my question is why are some of the maps really small and im talking 300 meters squares? 

 

oke to some people it might sound big but it really isn't.

 

a list the problems the maps do have now:

 

1. planes can come back in second if they make airfield 

 

2. revenge bombers are to easy to pull off 

 

3. most if not almost all tanks are not able to use there full potential

 

4. veterans/newbies are leaving the game faster due to the small maps are people with a bit line up come back with a small and fast tank to kill them 

 

5. most tanks in the game where not meant to fight in close quarters combat   

 

6. spawn camping is to easy  

 

 

 

how can we negate those problems with bigger maps  i hear you ask well here is a list with the pros and cons of bigger maps and no im not talking ill2 tank crew style maps that is overkill

 

 

pro's:

 

1. planes have to fly further to get to airfield (flows nicely in to point 2)

 

2. revenge bombers have a hard time find you meaning you can stay longer in one spot

 

3. if the maps are bigger yes the tanks in lower gun velocity will suffer but if the maps includes towns and villages then both parties can shine

 

4. here the veterans can snipe the newbies yes but due to the map size there are more flanking routes available meaning that you get a bit of forced team play

 

5. lets take the m36 of the USA for example it has a 90 mm gun great for sniping but not so great for town clearing for that you cloud use a cromwell

 

6. due to the further travel distances its becomes not as viable to spawn camp the enemy anymore 

 

con's and how to learn from them

 

1. bigger maps means more snipers.  yes counter snipe them  

 

2. longer travel times

 

3. longer games

 

4. some tanks become obsoleet.  true thats where balancing comes in

 

5. low tier becomes a chore.   thats true that is why gaijin use the bigger maps for late rank 2 begin rank 3

 

6. whining wheraboos who want to pub stop everyone.     your playing a tank game not gta

 

 

a closing remark:  ill follow this topic and read or at least try to read all of your comments and lets have a good discussion about this topic and maybe this is for you gaijin give this a go  #make war thunder fun

[Eskir 2]

I'm not sure how much you've been following the game but maps have been made smaller (vietnam, marginot) especially for tiers below 8.0

 

I personally don't like this myself but I understand that very few people want to be playing drive thunder in heavy tanks for 10 minutes before getting swiped by HEATFS or an airplane, or getting constantly outrun by wheeled vehicles (provided the player behind them isn't braindead). 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Eskir

[Noir89 2,577]

29 minutes ago, Eskir said:

especially for tiers below 8.0

That would be understandable, but we have CQC maps even on BR 11.0.

 

31 minutes ago, Eskir said:

I personally don't like this myself but I understand that very few people want to be playing drive thunder in heavy tanks for 10 minutes before getting swiped by HEATFS

BR 6.7 to 7.7 is problematic, when WW2 Stuff meets ATGM´s, Rangefinders and even some Laserrangefinders, but as u stated, everything above 8.0, so 8.3-11.3 should see larger maps at a higher %.

 

Especially "new" Fulda and Maginot are super bad for higher tiers, with castrated flanking routes and forced head-on engagements.

 

38 minutes ago, Eskir said:

or getting constantly outrun by wheeled vehicles

With the upcoming Drones, early ambushing should be a bit harder for those vehicles.

 

2 hours ago, officericee said:

revenge bombers are to easy to pull off 

If games would last longer (one-death-leavers are one part of that), Planes could start on the Airfield - that would prevent Immediate revengekilling.

 

2 hours ago, officericee said:

spawn camping is to easy  

1500 hp/t tanks on Frozen Pass - a very good Idea (only to mention 1 map). Any small map (especially versions with only 1 spawn) are prone to super early spawncamping (and due to that, fueling ODL).

 

 

TLDR: Modern vehicles need maps which allow them to use their full potential. We should aim for what-if szenarios like "Fulda Gap" or real Battles like "Battle of 73 Easting" - not something like "Grozny".

[officericee 2]

1 hour ago, Eskir said:

I'm not sure how much you've been following the game but maps have been made smaller (vietnam, marginot) especially for tiers below 8.0

that is the problem my man the the lower tier tank destroyers especially the case mates they dont get to unlock there full potential take the Russian tank destroyers for example there decently fast have a good gun for range but the maps dont go past 100 meters most of the time

[--#1 1]

It's very boring to fight street battles with MBT. Please adjust the map allocation

[STORMRIDER_HD 1]

I'm annoyed how they removed the sniping spot on the "middle east" map, the spot next to a cliff.

It wasn't broken at all tbh I'm disappointed that they removed this spot.

Edited September 18, 2022 by STORMRIDER_HD

[KilianL 865]

59 minutes ago, STORMRIDER_HD said:

I'm annoyed how they removed the sniping spot on the "middle east" map, the spot next to a cliff.

It wasn't broken at all tbh I'm disappointed that they removed this spot.

Did they remove the one from the Red team in your screenshot in H3 ? It would be only fair and I've had only blue side since the update. 

 

If yes then fair, if no then not.

[Being_LongGone 17]

They nerfed on side of the Middle East completely removing an hill, now only one side of the map has an enormous advantage in terms of hills being capable of seeing into spawn. Either give it back or remove it from rotation, this map is completely one-sided now.

[N4CR_ 537]

Ahh the irony giving players this decal:

 

 

Then Gaijin promptly removes ANY ability to explore the outer boundaries of the map. I love a tricky drive to an awesome snipe/spotting point. Even in AB it can be rewarding, in RB it can be like a battlefield overlook vantage that no one else has. 

 

For example the spot above C on Ash River, you'd often get killed sneaking up there, but if you got up there, you could lock the cap down. Arty/planes could easily kill you. Now you can't go there.

The spots at the back ends of Karelia, now you can't go there, similar thing. Same with the BS rocks on Jungle, added rocks to Karelia spawn etc etc. All of these artificial, clone tool cut paste rock assets look bad, unnatural and just make gameplay like some old console games. Jungle it looks like Godzilla came along after eating a concrete plant and laid out some fat concrete turds. It's pathetic, you have a HUGE map, even with low res ground, it's still usable, but Gaijin instead confine ground units to a tiny area. Even making weird parts in cities now off limit to nimble units. All these things just make it more of a crappy tunnel shooting tank game!

 

So now you can't go anywhere that was fun/difficult and challenging, with reward/risk ratio stuff. Now I just hit W, no 'can I go there', just W into a tunnel shooting crapfest, it's like playing COD even more so on some maps. It gets boring when you can't mix up play styles. Please revert these changes, you'd just fixed traction, for what? Half the reason for it (to get to advantaged point) is gone now because they are either very one sided map designs (desert one etc) where an entire team can do it, or no one can.

 

P.s. I challenge the naval team to make/alter naval maps which are not in optimal range for spawn to spawn firing for coastal or bluewater. Spawning in with 60% health and being able to do nothing about it at a match start, is absolutely lame and doesn't make me want to play naval. It's why I mostly avoid bluewater these days.

I've had coastal matches where I made 7 kills from spawn, firing into enemy spawn, to the point no one spawns any more coastals, that's not fun for anyone.  Let alone spawning coastals, then 30s later an SKR-7 is just spam firing your entire coastal team from near to it's spawn (that thing should be BR 4.7 at minimum anyway and not see most coastals).

It's not hard, you can do it on a few maps. It is an incredibly frustrating mechanic and it certainly doesn't make me want to buy coastal premiums, why would I reward massive amounts of poor map design?

Also remove coastal units from New Zealand cape, except the SKR-7s and the like. It's too big for coastals to get anywhere without dying in most cases.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by N4CR_

[CoffeeBean100 2,896]

So, we now have areas marked on the maps as out of bounds in GF.  What exactly is the reason for this (the marking) as it does not show the out of bounds areas?  I might have missed something explaining this but I think it is unusual that while some areas are marked (which you can't get to) the areas that cause you to leave the battlefield are not.  Is there a chance for consistency or maybe I have missed the finer details of the recent map addition?

[N4CR_ 537]

8 minutes ago, CoffeeBean100 said:

So, we now have areas marked on the maps as out of bounds in GF.  What exactly is the reason for this (the marking) as it does not show the out of bounds areas?  I might have missed something explaining this but I think it is unusual that while some areas are marked (which you can't get to) the areas that cause you to leave the battlefield are not.  Is there a chance for consistency or maybe I have missed the finer details of the recent map addition?

It only shows on the map if you get close and the 'leave the area' notification.

[CoffeeBean100 2,896]

4 minutes ago, N4CR_ said:

It only shows on the map if you get close and the 'leave the area' notification.

 

Nope, they recently added more "checked" areas, some I believe used to be traverseable which now aren't. There was a memo about it and was very recent but can't work it out.

 

Check most maps and they have "hashed" out areas in outcrops and the edge of the maps. My point being these are not the only boundaries (not on a comp so can't screenshot exactly what I referred to, I just thought if might be commonly known).

 

Eg Berlin: lots of marked off areas on mini-map at edges, especially river to north, but doesn't show every out of bounds zone so wondered if anyone knew the reasoning. More out of curiosity, or if I missed something.

Edited September 26, 2022 by CoffeeBean100

[SistineFibel 74]

I'm asking myself "How Gaijin can came up with such absurd layout map ever."

Dude i mean, we just spawn 1 min after the match has been started and we get stream of shells coming from north. Obiviously, we spawned at downhill and they got uphill so that make sense this layout need to be change ASAP.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by SistineFibel

[N4CR_ 537]

22 hours ago, CoffeeBean100 said:

 

Nope, they recently added more "checked" areas, some I believe used to be traverseable which now aren't. There was a memo about it and was very recent but can't work it out.

 

Check most maps and they have "hashed" out areas in outcrops and the edge of the maps. My point being these are not the only boundaries (not on a comp so can't screenshot exactly what I referred to, I just thought if might be commonly known).

 

Eg Berlin: lots of marked off areas on mini-map at edges, especially river to north, but doesn't show every out of bounds zone so wondered if anyone knew the reasoning. More out of curiosity, or if I missed something.

This is why I mentioned some of the city maps. Some have 'blank squares' that you needed a very nimble/fast light tank to get into usually, or camp on top of debris piles. Now you can't go into those areas, rooftops and other bugs. Basically they got some intern to go around and draw red bars in the areas of the map they don't want you going (anywhere that isn't a boring, car accessible road). Meanwhile you have a tracked vehicle made to go offroad that you can't really use much... 

[CoffeeBean100 2,896]

4 minutes ago, N4CR_ said:

Basically they got some intern to go around and draw red bars in the areas of the map they don't want you going

 

Yeah, that's the bits I were referring to and wondered why they don't mark all out of bounds areas like this (probably because it might be too much on the mini map and emphasise just how cramped maps can be).

[N4CR_ 537]

54 minutes ago, CoffeeBean100 said:

 

Yeah, that's the bits I were referring to and wondered why they don't mark all out of bounds areas like this (probably because it might be too much on the mini map and emphasise just how cramped maps can be).

Lol very good point and you're likely right. We lost a large chunk of additional map area with this change. I love having less options and less places to go.

[sardinha08 1,031]

On 27/09/2022 at 13:05, N4CR_ said:

This is why I mentioned some of the city maps. Some have 'blank squares' that you needed a very nimble/fast light tank to get into usually, or camp on top of debris piles. Now you can't go into those areas, rooftops and other bugs. Basically they got some intern to go around and draw red bars in the areas of the map they don't want you going (anywhere that isn't a boring, car accessible road). Meanwhile you have a tracked vehicle made to go offroad that you can't really use much... 

In Advance to the Rhine, if you try to get into cover next to buildings it starts to count for you to leave, I'm talking about being in the street next to the destroyed buildings and not inside the destroyed city blocks.

In Aral Sea map they just changed the wrecked ships on one side of the map that could give you some cover and a good position to cover A.

Gaijin is trying hard for players NOT to use the maps.

[shillin 153]

why for the past month playing 10.0 have my maps not changed? even changing the dislike/like and banned map. i am still getting the same boring maps. no rotation at all. I wouldnt even know there was a new map had i not seen videos of it

[Thodin 6,783]

Let me guess: Seversk, Aral, Spaceport looped endlessly

[Malko07 556]

On 26/09/2022 at 14:18, N4CR_ said:

hen Gaijin promptly removes ANY ability to explore the outer boundaries of the map. I love a tricky drive to an awesome snipe/spotting point. Even in AB it can be rewarding, in RB it can be like a battlefield overlook vantage that no one else has. 

This update is a diseaster for some maps that used to offer a slightly different gameplay with some snipping positions. I don't get the point why they destroyed completely Karelia for example, as those snipping places didn't provide any advantages to a specific team. Now this map is boring, offering the same "point blank" fight around obstacles as most of the other locations.

This stupid process started some updates ago with Ash River, and it's spreading now to maps that were functioning well from years.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Malko07

[CoffeeBean100 2,896]

14 hours ago, shillin said:

why for the past month playing 10.0 have my maps not changed? even changing the dislike/like and banned map. i am still getting the same boring maps. no rotation at all. I wouldnt even know there was a new map had i not seen videos of it

One:  There are rotations that change [monthly?]
Two:  It reacts to the players choices in a "democratic" way

End result:  You either need to enjoy what most like or accept your view on enjoyment regarding maps is in the minority (like me)

(Most of WT is now some sort of yolo rush/sit back and do very little (3.0-7.7 from my experience) with the "good" games few and far between.  With population came this evolution of the game and for the worst as the average "fun" seems to be feed the enemy players with kills as much as possible)

Edited September 30, 2022 by CoffeeBean100

[N4CR_ 537]

3 hours ago, Malko07 said:

This update is a diseaster for some maps that used to offer a slightly different gameplay with some snipping positions. I don't get the point why they destroyed completely Karelia for example, as those snipping places didn't provide any advantages to a specific team. Now this map is boring, offering the same "point blank" fight around obstacles as most of the other locations.

This stupid process started some updates ago with Ash River, and it's spreading now to maps that were functioning well from years.

Well said, perfectly good maps are now being made into a tunnel shooting/close combat map, more and more like this. The back parts of Karelia were some of my favourite, you were almost always alone and could chill out a bit during a match there. Not anymore. 

 

Look how much of the map is now dead, it's almost a majority of it now.

 

 

So I did some 12,000 hour paintshopping this and look at what we have here when we gather the land that is now inaccessable on the map:

 

 

30-40% loss? What the hell Gaijin. This isn't improving the maps nor gameplay, its making it worse.