[Feedback] Economy Revision - Our Plan in Detail

[bonobo_ 433]

Overall I appreciate the proposals, except one :

Quote

modifying its technical and combat characteristics where possible, i.e. altering access to certain shell types or adjusting reload speeds, or applying general balancing factors to all vehicles in that class

Please do NOT modify historical characteristics of vehicles to balance them. Just use BR.

 

Also :

- I would like the helicopter PvP mode back (the PvE is boring) ;

- Nowhere I see addressed the problem of crew point research income : it is still faster to improve crew skills when playing AB than when playing RB and SB. This is totally unfair since these modes are more challenging than AB.

 

[Gamezeros 5]

@Pacifica Will there be another round of Q&A from players and CC? I think that will help to refine some points like the Skill Reward (include capturing flags, assists, repair, destroying bases and ground targets) or bringing back the points for tanking shots.

[KingDragunov 93]

Issue here, how about you all not nerf the vehicle in any way? The repair cost fix is good enough and doing the new suggestion will make player not want to play the vehicle

[goldenjarichobo@psn 0]

Good changes in my opinion. Gaijin has proposed the same changes that I wanted to see personally.

[Heavens_Weapon 2]

4 hours ago, Stona said:

Firstly, we will completely remove having to pay for repairs if your vehicle is destroyed by an ally - regardless of the reason that leads to your destruction by a teammate.

FINALLY. THANK YOU. I would like to request two additions/caveats to this change as well:

1. If you are teamkilled while you have a SL/RP booster active AND you have not yet scored any kills (either enemy or AI), the booster will not be expended for that battle, and will still remain active when you return to the hangar. This will alleviate much frustration on the part of Air RB players who might have started the match with, for example, a 300% SL booster, only to be teamkilled by a troll on takeoff and sent back to the hangar with nothing to show for it. It would also be nice if the boosters did not get used up if you get dropped from the match (again, IF you have not yet scored any kills) because your client disconnected.
2. In Sim Battles, there is technically not a "repair cost," per se, but rather a spawn cost that you pay BEFORE you can fly (some of which are outrageously high. Lookin' at you, A-4B. One of my favorite IRL planes, but I hesitate to even take it out because it costs almost 26,000SL each time). Arguments about that mechanic aside, if you are playing in SB and get teamkilled (which probably happens more in SB than in any other game mode), in lieu of not having to pay the repair cost, please either "refund" the player the initial spawn cost, or allow them to respawn for free (in the same jet as what they got shot down in, of course). Please. I probably see three friendly fire deaths, MINIMUM, (across both teams) on the kill feed in every SB match I've played in; not having to fork over tens of thousands of SL just because a teammate didn't bother to verify their target before they Fox-2 would make the game mode significantly more fun (and less stressful).

[Jarms 1,558]

Overall I think these changes are positive but I do have some concerns.

- Why are some vehicles still going up? Some of these vehicles still have already high costs, or some of these vehicles now have higher costs than vehicles that come after them. 

- Doesn't changing repair costs to work on time in battle penalise those who play the mission? If someone dies 10 minutes in a battle compared to 1 minute into the battle what kind of difference are we looking at? 

- I would like to see people with multiple spawns in battle get some kind of repair discount. They're actively playing the mission. 

- "Rewarding your skill" don't get me wrong, I like the idea but I think it should be changed to battle score. It could lead to players simply camping and focusing only on kills. Instead of playing the mission. 

 

Again, I want to reiterate that I am supportive of the changes but I do have some concerns. 

 

[kurururocks 210]

i still want reloadable FPE in cap zone just like ammo

[sardinha08 1,031]

Today is one of the most important dates in War Thunder history. 

I don't like all the changes but I definitively think that most will be very important and positive to this game's future. Good job so far Gaijin.

[Pacifica 15,968]

42 minutes ago, Gamezeros said:

@Pacifica Will there be another round of Q&A from players and CC? I think that will help to refine some points like the Skill Reward (include capturing flags, assists, repair, destroying bases and ground targets) or bringing back the points for tanking shots.

 

More than likely, but I do not have any info about that... that would be a better question for Stona or Smin

 

It is a bit hard to see in the original post, but there is a Vote option https://poll.gaijin.net/survey/106/

 

And you can also leave Feedback/Suggestions in that vote as well, so Staff will read all of that Feedback and Suggestions... so for now, it might be the best place for Questions / Feedback / Suggestions and they may answer questions that players have there later in further updates/announcements...

 

I am also sure the Devs will go into more finer details later on as well, otherwise as I mentioned Stona or Smin will be best for that question  

[螺旋機の終末ヤン炭焼きのコ科比尼次郎さま 0]

可以增加一个国家的成员组经验溢出后转移到相同国家另一个成员组上吗？

[sardinha08 1,031]

57 minutes ago, Gamezeros said:

Will there be another round of Q&A from players and CC?

From the roadmap article:
"Therefore, we plan to have another session of collecting feedback in the fall, after the work is completed."

Edited June 14, 2023 by sardinha08

[螺旋機の終末ヤン炭焼きのコ科比尼次郎さま 0]

可以增加一个国家的成员组经验溢出后转移到相同国家另一个成员组上吗？

[PigtailedSlime 0]

Some sort of bonus for spading vehicles would also be nice and encourage a larger variety of vehicles in matches. Something like 1% rp boost to US ground for every US ground vehicle spaded.

[OptimusBananas 0]

This is a Good change. Now wee need to keep these changes and not remove them slowly over the next 2-4 years

[Isaac_Victor 7]

I'm here to say thank you Gaijin and to share some graphs that I created using the website's data, which help summarize how the changes have been positive and indicate a promising scenario.

 

 

Here we have a boxplot graph comparing the old and new values for each game mode (colors) and for each nation (separated on the horizontal axis). In general, we can observe that countries have become cheaper to play. The repair cost will decrease significantly regardless of the mode. Additionally, in the boxplot of the new values, there are fewer outliers, indicating better balancing. Players are not penalized for wanting to play with a specific vehicle since the prices are closer together with fewer deviating values.

 

 

 

In this violin plot below, we can observe that the majority of the graphs have a relatively wider middle section compared to the upper parts. This indicates that the new values have fewer outliers and are closer to a lower value.

 

 

 

In this other graph, we can observe the differences between the new and old values (if the SE is negative, the old value was higher). We can see that a significant portion of the values will decrease considerably in the next update. Even the median is below zero.

 

 

 

 

Por fim, TX gaijin.

 

[朝鮮統合一般兵 0]

good news

Support these changes and hope to implement them as soon as possible

[GenericAccount 0]

I really appreciate the improvements to the game and how you've engaged with the user base. Well done.

[AlvisWisla 225]

Event vehicles should have the repair cost [but not rewards] similar to premium vehicles.

[TyTheGuy27@live 6]

Excellent changes! Truly phenomenal!

2 suggestions:

1. Don't change the in game performance of vehicles to soft balance within a BR. War Thunder's best attribute is its incredibly accurate vehicle models, and changing these to fit a certain BR is too WoT-like in my opinion. An alternative would be to change the spawn cost of certain vehicles by up to +-50sp compared to the baseline for their BR within the battle's BR. This would mean that those vehicles that over or under perform for their BR would be slightly more or less difficult to spawn in. I am uncertain how to implement this in Arcade, though since Arcade is less realistic  (pun intended), altering performance for Arcade is more acceptable.

2. With an increase in focus on killing enemies instead of playing objectives, I fear there will be an uptick in spawn camping. A solution would be to decrease rewards for destroying an enemy vehicle within a certain range of their spawn. That, or increase the time of spawn protection, to allow players to escape from spawn campers.

Edited June 14, 2023 by TyTheGuy27@live
Misspoke, implying good vehicles should be easier to spawn in than bad ones ?

[TyTheGuy27@live 6]

1 hour ago, PigtailedSlime said:

Some sort of bonus for spading vehicles would also be nice and encourage a larger variety of vehicles in matches. Something like 1% rp boost to US ground for every US ground vehicle spaded.

Perhaps instead a portion (50%?) of RP that would have gone towards modules for the vehicle is instead used to research the player's next vehicle?

[JebediahKerman3 2]

Pretty good changes overall! It's nice to see repair costs get slashed while rewards multipliers get boosted. As an air sim exclusive player, we've had to pay the largest costs for the lowest reward for the longest time - thanks for starting to address that. And now that air sim can finally progress the battle pass, Gaijin have just unlocked an additional revenue stream. I've never considered purchasing the battle pass to get unique vehicles - until now, anyway, when it's introduced later this year.

 

There remains one major economy changes that had to be added - that is, making the "repair cost" an actual repair cost. It should be free to spawn in, and you should be asked to pay if you get shot down and want to fly that plane out again (or immediately afterwards in a different lobby). This is how it works in air RB and AB, and SB needs to be brought in-line. Air SB pilots have collectively spent millions of SL just to spawn in, costs that RB either have deferred or don't pay at all. Sim pilots would also be able to take advantage of free repairs, and repair time, and the new dynamic repair cost to be introduced. Please fix this - you're so close to fixing a lot of issues with the air sim economy.

 

Thanks again for everything, and for listening.

[vanished_Ik 0]

honestly what i wanted, a big part of it isn't contained in these planned changes
1. allow players to select small maps/ 12 or lower player per team in high br air rb
2.adjust the br system, make it +- 0.7 br instead of +-1.0 br to improve the game experience, queue time isn't a problem as war thuner is having a larger player base now
3. adjust some semi top tier jets' br like F-4E, and J-7E, these planes don't have have really good bvr abilities which almost every other jets have in br over 11.3, make these jets to lower br like 10.7
it is not bias, just look at f8e, having decent plane performance while having fox1 and fox2, and it is 10.3, the f4e and j7e simply got no reason to be in 11.0
4.remake the fox2 seeking system, are they flared or not, shouldn't be decided by values, it should depends on the place where flares are, are the flares covering the planes' heat signature, the engine tempeture, also the missiles' guidance system, like in future there are IRTV guided missiles, these missiles shouldn't be easily flared off even in head on situation
5.stop making copy and paste battle pass vehicles, rather make it so players have to reach higher battle pass level like lv70 to get the vehicle, and also make it so players do not need to buy golden pass to obtain upgrde tool to upgrade the battle pass vehicle coupon for selling in gaijin market

[Asterism_star 0]

I like these revenue changes. I can't wait to implement them, but I finally think there's room for improvement, but I can't come up with any suggestions。hhhhh

[The_Red_Lobster 0]

While I'm happy that efforts are being made to improve the mistakes Gaijin made with updating the economy recently, I still miss the days where higher tier prop planes had anywhere between 280% and 350% for RP and SL gain, grinding to higher tiers was a little slow, but as I climb through the Chinese air tree that I've barely touched up until now, it feels like I'm climbing mountains just to get to decent 3.7 aircraft, despite being able to get 3-4 kills every game in Air RB. if the economy just hadn't been touched from that point, War Thunder probably wouldn't be getting review bombed on Steam right now

[longleaveNoTrace 0]

1.Cancel rewards and punishments for high-level killing of low-level targets

2.Enhance penalties for users of plugins or other third-party software

3.Reduce the difficulty of guard mode appropriately or Increase Guardian Mode Rewards

4.Increase R&D rewards in S.B.