[Feedback] Economy Revision - Our Plan in Detail

[war_Tinder 232]

These are all legitimately amazing changes. Yeah, some people will complain, there are certain things some may like in addition, but on the whole, these are all amazing and will greatly improve the enjoyment of the game for everyone at every tier! Thank you.

[CherryGGO 17]

good

[ACEtankACE 0]

Holy moly, in my dearest dream I wouldn't even imagine that YOU - GAIJIN ? -  would listened to us. I sincere apology for slurs that I made about you. So I will add a few more comment on the subject of these huge changes. I as many other players wish you with fruitful and stronger new players coming, as the game become more user friendly and easy to digest, better grinding.

 

1. Better implementation of tutorial and instructions on how the game work ?: For example: setup fully optimize key bindings, so new players wouldn't have to do it them self for 50 keys. Instruct them on how to use new weapons and control system upon researched new vehicle and weapons. You can have a reference and parameter for this by looking at COD MW 2019 and COD MW 2023, they were actually listened to the community and come back have success game releases.
2. Monetization ? : Instead of milking the player base over forever grinding hours, try one of these - Small DLC of City Skyline, COD MW 2019 and COD MW 2023 (selling small package of decoration or calling card, name tag using real money instead of Golden Eagle, make them more beautiful and attractive instead of just an image or a 3d model)
3. Better UI and gameplay ? : I try multiple time introduce War Thunder to my friends, they will have a few comments given to you too - The UI for new players is very confusing (not about the layout, but rather minor details in it). For example: How new players know the difference between AB RB SB and how to play them, as AB you spawn 3 times, RB you spawn by spawn point, SB you spawn infinitely. Such information should be taught once; secondly, there's no instruction for what how to setup a proper lineup, which tech-tree and nation one should play (you want to go fast or go big cannon or go fully armored), you can reference World of warships on how they indicated what TT would perform); and many more....
4. Bring back PVP Heli ? : Since you are not raising income for PVE Heli, please bring back PVP Heli mode with more game mode for better diversity (may need intensive testing)
5. How about Ground EC and more game mode ? : For centuries, we were waiting for a big open and long matches of World War mode. The recently released test version for it is fine but it lack the "Battlefield" impression, where multiple forces could intercepted each other, creating a fully developed war. I suggest we should have ground EC mode for such gameplay that we player want. More over, I should point out that I have been captured point ABC for 10 years, better diversity for game mode should be a nice implementation (don't worry about new players being confused about this, as they are gamers too, they should know what capture the flag and defusing bombs are)
6. There's many more  ? , but I hope you creating more open conversation, such as stop deleting comments and topics (or move them to a corner somewhere no one would ever seen) on your forum, people switching for Reddit because of its. Creating more surveys would be nice but it can't replace the continuity and it's a one way conversation method.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by ACEtankACE

[GentSpy_Xray 8]

Didn’t see any change about dealing cheating player, I was meeting those cheaters in ground RB battle who can always knock my breech-block out. And in navy RB, those cheaters can precisely aiming and damaging me all the time, despite the fact that we all just spawned, even rangefinder on it’s way to work and I’m turning that moment. And some how one or both of us behind the mountain, I can’t even target that player, however that cheater can damage me all the time. Especially many cheaters are using Helena. I know there is report option, but the report procedure is so annoying and inefficiency. I did report but quantity of cheaters seems never decrease, because It's just into this situation more and more. Hope there are some changes particularly deal with this problem. Thanks.

[Out4Some 2]

Sad... you not addressing the single vehicle player problem.

[Sahilku010101@psn 62]

17 hours ago, Stona said:

Improving Premium Accounts: Income Insurance

While we aim to ensure that vehicles break even for the average player across all ranks regardless of having a Premium account, it is important to consider scenarios where multiple vehicles are lost in a single battle without achieving any kills, or any other contribution to the team’s success.

In such cases, it is highly probable that the expenses for repairs will outweigh the earnings, even with a Premium account. Consequently, we have made the decision to enhance the Premium account feature in order to prevent players from accumulating a negative balance, even after an exceptionally unsuccessful battle. If your total repair cost exceeds your income, you will be compensated after the battle, ensuring that your SL tally for the match remains at zero, unless you have teamkilled.

This additional feature will be automatically included with every Premium account and will not require a separate purchase. It will also apply to all currently active Premium accounts without any additional action required.

We plan to add this mechanic in one of the updates during the summer of 2023

 

Please revise/refine this. I am all for reduction in repair costs, but completely eliminating repair costs is not a good idea. Repair costs are a very useful tool against botting, and botting has already ruined naval RB because of the super low repair costs on some premium ships. I don't want to end up playing Ground and Air matches where wining/losing is determined by how many human players are on my team. Furthermore, eliminating repair costs for only premium players is going to increase the disparity between free and premium players even more, essentially making it pay to never lose SL.

 

Other than that, I gladly welcome all the other changes!

 

Edit: Maybe make it more like a 80-90% refund for premium accounts rather than a complete elimination of repair costs.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Sahilku010101@psn

[richthofen122 1,455]

5 hours ago, bonobo_ said:

Please do NOT modify historical characteristics of vehicles to balance them. Just use BR.

 

I got the same concern while reading this point. If they start mingling with historically accurate ammo and stats, then they should also allow more fictional vehicles. 

 

Stick with BR. (But bring fictional/Semi-historical vehicles back/keep them)

[Uncle J Wick@live 407]

7 hours ago, Stona said:

The size of the bonus and the number of kills required to earn it will depend on the game mode and the rank of the vehicles used - we’ll tell you all about the specifics once the mechanic is introduced into the game.

 

I like the general idea of "Rewarding your skill" but reducing the "skill" just on the number of kills is imho is simply not the whole truth. Yes, it has an impact on the numbers game, but it depends also which targets were killed and if somebody has scored kills with actual skill or just by flying an op plane.

 

So if a guy in an XP-50 farms 3 Sterlings in an Air RB match this has imho nothing to do with skill - the guy in a S-199 killing a far superior XP-50 has shown much more skill and eliminated a real threat for his team. 

 

From a holistic pov every kill in a PvP requires skill, but more than often we have in Air RB less experienced players in op planes racking up kills with really stupid tactics like multiple headons whilst rushing the enemy climb zone due to air spawn advantage. And sometimes just artificially decreased BRs of certain planes (Wyvern, XP-50) or the "misuse" of certain planes/plane classes (like using bombers as interceptors like T-18B, SB2C etc...) allow players to get kills in the first place. So rewarding those players is imho not the right way to acknowledge actual skill. 

 

In addition the pure focus on kills would increase the kill steal problem we already have.

 

So if you really want to reward skill, you might focus much more on BRs differences, plane differences (killing a fighter in a bomber vs killing a bomber with a fighter), kill assists and simply common sense - so if a rookie in an F4F kills a veteran player in a Bf 109 it should be much more rewarded than a veteran farming less experienced players in objectively inferior planes. 

 

As a large part of the playerbase sees KPB as a sign of quality, it might worth to think about adding additional values to your ranking like BR difference to the guys killed, number of assists, if they killed an undamaged enemy alone (so no assist for somebody else) and if they killed bombers, attackers or fighters - and if those kills get achieved whilst flying in a squad or solo/with a random team mate.

 

A very small historic reference: As the Luftwaffe learned that it required a lot of skill, luck and courage to attack combat boxes of 8th AF bomber streams, they rewarded the damage forcing a B-17/B-24 to leave the protection of the formation (" Herausschuss") with 3 points, and the final kill ("endgueltige Vernichtung") with just 1 point (for the point system to get the Knights Cross over Western Europe), so 3 times more than the actual kill. So if you ever tried to analyze Luftwaffe claim lists you now know why these "HSS" or "e.V." were mentioned there. 

 

Just think about that. 

 

[NestleKitkat 1,404]

10 hours ago, Stona said:

 

 

Revising Teamkill Penalties

Teamkilling has always been a continuous talking point in War Thunder, and we understand the frustration that comes with being intentionally damaged or destroyed by malicious teammates. Based on the feedback you've provided, we will implement several changes to address your concerns. That being said, we do believe that the concept of "friendly fire", as in the accidental or irresponsible harm to allied players, has its place in the more realistic game modes of War Thunder, so our priorities are focused on minimising the damage and frustration teamkills cause.

Firstly, we will completely remove having to pay for repairs if your vehicle is destroyed by an ally - regardless of the reason that leads to your destruction by a teammate.

Additionally, we'll add an apology mechanic - if you’re teamkilled, you’ll be able to accept an apology from the player that destroyed you. This allows you to judge on a case-by-case basis whether you deem the destruction by a teammate an unfortunate, but forgivable, situation of "friendly fire" that requires no further action against the offender.

In this case, all players in the match will be informed of this via the battle chat and the killer will not be kicked out of the session for this teamkill.

We plan on adding this mechanic in the next major update in September 2023.

 

I guess it won't be good idea because unfortunately most people, in the anger of the moment, will probably reject the apology, even if it's very clearly an accident.

[Kicimijazawa 293]

I have it printed. Just in case, you know....

 

Seeing how many steps in the right direction you are planning to do, shows how much you have pulled this string to this day. 

Please Gaijin, stay true to your words and commit. And dont be afraid: money will still flow.

[not4younot4me@psn 0]

Actually good, props to gaijin, but in my opinion some repair costs are still to high!

Still, good job

[WanderingGhost 2]

So, for the most part, this looks good. However, I have some questions and concerns.

 

Economy Revisions -

First, let me state that the core idea I actually find perfectly fine, and no immediate faults though perhaps cause of the time and my brain being fried some of it goes over my head. My issues are more 'devil's in the details', regarding specific vehicles/groups within the google doc that lists the changes to each vehicle in which modes individually which is a lot easier to understand. And so to list a sampling (to save time and space because a few should be enough to get the point across):

• US Bombers (upper low-mid tiers) - The repair price in Arcade (where I tend to play) is going up on many of these, however several see no changes, and a few get a .1 increase in rewards. While these may seem like 'small' increases to the repair costs, thing is - bombers are entirely feast or famine most of the time. More often than not - usually seem to be famine. Especially when you get to upper rank 2/3 and absolutely 4 where it is way easier for planes to get to the same altitude as bombers and just shoot them down before they ever get close enough to drop bombs on say a pillbox where they might get it and an AA gun for a jokes worth of RP and SL, let alone a base that actually pays off. Sure I've seen, even been the guy who somehow goes un-attacked dropping 7+ tons of bombs on bases/airfields, but most are sent burning on fire to the ground without doing much unless they dive in as fast as they can to maybe get to something to hit it at which point they get shot down after getting some points at least. If AI gunners (especially in nose guns) were a little more useful maybe to keep a plane safe I could see that making sense, but not as is based on what I've seen over the years.
• A4E Early - Nice to see the repair cost go down, the amount rewarded going down, not so much. 
• Several Coastal Premiums (US) - to pick a single example, PT-658 is having it's repair price nearly tripled, higher than all the others in the rank, but no gain in what it takes in. Several of the premiums are seeing their repair costs go up, but not gaining anything more in rewards. Some what counter while it does see a small increase in repair cost - .6 more for USS Douglas, as someone who owns one, seems excessive. 
• USS Moffett - Look, with the way things are now, yeah, I go to basically this/Wilkinson/Detroit in order to try and print out some SL to fund getting higher tier planes/other lines/crew training/crew qualifications, and while I'm all behind the changes to Wilkinson cause it's effectiveness can vary, I feel like Moffett should just be untouched, it's repair cost doesn't get any cheaper or mor expensive, but it doesn't get a boost/reduction in rewards either. Similarly with Detroit I'm 50/50, I like the increased rewards given it's RoF and all, not as big on increased repair cost. Some of the tech tree ships are at least seeing in cases significant reward increases for Naval AB, other than some like yeah Wilkinson and Detroit, kinda think they shouldn't be changed at all, other than in some cases higher rewards. 

There's others throughout that are similar, but I don't want to spend probablly an hour or more writing them all out in a massive wall. 

 

Income Insurance - look, I like the idea, but here's an important question that I'm sure you guys should have figured would be asked, and answered in the article from the start with out me (or any others that got to reading before me) ever asking it: Are you gonna end up jacking up the price of premium cause of it?

 

Reducing the Research/Purchase cost of Rank VI and VII aircraft (and eventually tanks) - this one I think the scope is too small. In aircraft, some trees at least it starts to get kinda bad at the end of Rank IV, with Rank V being the real start of pain, though that's partially due to a spot where you have lower ones with no air to air missiles or countermeasures having to go against the lower end rank 6 that does to say nothing of 9.0 VT planes or the like at Rank 5 (with no idea why they are that high BR) like the F-84F that has to deal with at least up to 10.0 with even more advanced and lethal missiles with 0 of it's own and no CM. And doing Ranks 6 and 7, likely means needing to tweak 8. Tanks the pain really kind seems to start at Rank 4, same with ships where the grind really seems to set in, especially on coastal vessels and some more than others.

[ExoSt4lker 29]

Hello just a quick suggestion if we can research helis through tanks why not coastal through bluewater ships and opposite ? It would drag more players in each type and fixing the old problem of spliting the TT. I have almost all nations bluewater researched but only german coastal one done. 

[Savanne 455]

The grouping changes and the "other nation tree research" are top of the tier. Such thing should have been implemented ages ago.

It was also a potentially missed monetization chance - with low SL gains, but also lower RP costs for other tech tree vehicles, players who want to have all the tech tree vehicles would need to either grind more for SL or buy Premium/GL.

 

Anyway.

Most of the changes look amazing.

Blank reduction of SL repair costs is somewhat okay, as long as its not too large. After all, we do not want people running with their heads off and doing stupid stuff, ruining fun for other people in the battle, just so they can have fun. Full repair cost for J out is a good thing.

Normalizing repair cost for vehicles, and making it rank/type dependent is HUGE. This SHOULD hopefully increase repair costs for cheap and fast vehicles, that are used to cap points and then J out and bring CAS.

 

Overall, happy with the roadmap. I hope this will be implemented and bring in more new players (and especially bring back old ones).

[Fallen_Cookie 1]

Please PLEASE stop using AI to make the artwork. Please pay actual artists for it

[aaaa23456789 308]

no change for SIM game mode particularly the Ground Sim game mode. The balance totally broken for tons of years and Gaijin did not check and see any suggestions from the forum Sim section.

[Uncle J Wick@live 407]

Ok, i am not really affected by this economy issue as i have all the vehicles i want to play, but after a quick look in your new repair cost sheet i was wondering how you want to argue this:

 

P-47 D-30 - Air RB BR 5.0

Repair cost new for Italy: 9k SL

Repair cost new for China: 3k SL

 

Tbh, idc why you put the same plane in different trees with different ranks and added different multipliers, but just this small example shows that if you really want to simplify your statistic stuff and try to balance some things better, there is a long way to go....

 

[desertwind 16]

Some decent changes overall but Helicopter and Naval rewards/costs seem a bit off, premiums included. For premium helicopters, as far as I understand, the new repair costs are ok but the reward multiplier is going down by 50%? The premium ships are hit harder, like the Moffet. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Waelse 277]

Changes are too cool at the point to be populistic.

I see lot of abuse possibilities around the team kill regulations. 

 

[enigmaz 0]

add +0.1 -0.2 to rewards cuz free to play is pain in the bum" right now even with changes you propose.

[Cervomix 1,307]

Unfortunately the "softcap" for gains is still in place. It means, you get less reward doing same action (for instance, you gain less and less killing enemies, or doing several assists, or capturing several points). This softcap has to go away. Your idea to give a % for killing an amount of players is highly toxic and will promote unfair playstyle.

 

Also the warbonds tasks are still required to be played in Tier 3 tanks, so it excludes most WW2 famous units and low level units are useless (because War Thunder will remain a grind game).

 

And last point, the killing system is still full of flaws... Setting an enemy plane in flames and criting him to the point it's spiraling to the ground (or that his engine is dead) does not assure a kill, someone can still steal the kill... A plane on fire should be a "pending kill" unless fire extinguishs.

 

There's still a lot to do to be accepted in my opinion, considering what you did the 10+ years of increasing the grind, reducing income, lying to us saying you increase gains when it was obvious that was the contrary.

[FKrisz 13]

First of all, this is a very good work! Well done! You listened the player base and that is really good! I agree with the most changes (well, just some vehicles sl reward change and repair cost are not very well balanced, but it is just my opinion, so... its ok).

What I suggest:

-The free repair time in hangar crew skill need matters! Lower the repair time with higher crew skill significantly. At this time its almost useless skill, so make it worth it!

 

-For the future: Heli pve need a huge change, sometimes its unplayable because they are lot a of players, but not enough targets, sometimes are too long waiting time to play that mode and really painful with stock helis.

 

-Campaigns are worthless! Need much higher rewards for play that (also a good option for sell more campaign pack us, jp, you know, you can make money from that... ;). I love singleplayer or coop campaigns/maps, but its almost just waste of time. Change that!

 

-For god sake: make ERA works normally. It eat apdfsds too many times....

 

-Russian bias. I know... I know, but sometimes its really pain in the.... that at top ranks Russia has the best helis, best AA, best cas aircraft. So... Maybe need some change with that. (just look the win ratio of the nations...)

[疌尔任斯基 0]

直升机街机模式的收益被削弱的太多了，这样在直升机PVE的情况下基本不会获得太多收益，希望盖金能稍微增加一下直升机PVE模式下的收益

[muhammad_hero 55]

• 1st Gaijin should! reduce module RP, stock vehicles are not fun when playing to upgrade them, up to rank 3 its fine, but rank 4 and above its the same modules but the cost is higher and gets higher and higher... pls reduce module RP.
• 2nd so you saying if I play a tank or chopper in ground AB/RB I get an option after the battle where the accumulated RP is put in to research? either for my tank research or chopper? why not for planes and ships too then if thats the case other then that its a good roadmap
• More foldered vehicles is Yes pls, I doubt so many people don't play foldered vehicles. Add more vehicles, add more variants of vehicles but folder them.
• More sub-trees can be added.
• I suggest a tech tree rework, no more sub-trees or independent tech trees, instead do more a design like Western/North & South American Countries, European/Middle East Countries, Eastern/Asian Countries. Divide the techtrees into 3 larger secctions and each nation is designed to be a compacted folder with its own vehicles.

[Metal_Major_ZOD 87]

Overall good changes but i have some questions.

 

Will the dynamic reduction of repair cost take into account heavy and/or slow vehicles?  And the maximum repair cost will be the value that we see in the stat card or it can go higher than that?

 

Will the rp cost of modifications of the foldered vehicles also be lowered?

 

Why are helis losing their rewards multipliers?