The biggest problem

[blastedryan 967]

10 hours ago, long5hot said:

Have players become special snowflakes who need safe spaces in War Thunder now?

Funny you say that considering there is a new player only lobby.

[Hohum33 680]

49 minutes ago, GregKjr said:

so I would tend to agree with you about "Characterising people who disagree with you as "crying" is pathetic - and just the kind of hyperbole you say that reduces credibility only one sentence later."

 

 

except this is a thing...

 

maybe thy are crying from laughter?

 

"Love your choice of words like abandonment of my team, it nearly brought a tear to my eye "

 

This is a parody/sarcasm directed at *your* hyperbole.

[RolandofSalem 280]

58 minutes ago, Hohum33 said:

 

There is no spawn protection in aircraft. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. You have no credibility.

 

...so because there are a few seconds after you spawn in that you can't be killed...and I call that spawn protection you say that I don't know what I'm talking about and have no credibility...LOL!

 

...whatever you say there is a counter for everything in this game and everyone has to find their own way of dealing with adversity...you can't depend on G to fix everything you don't like to make it easy or "fair".

 

...suck it up and deal with it...overcome the 100 up there...dive out slowly climb and camp them. I can respect that...treat adversity with boldness and cunning...fight dirty and win.

 

[RolandofSalem 280]

10 hours ago, long5hot said:

Have players become special snowflakes who need safe spaces in War Thunder now?

 

I don't think the majority of players are like this yet, but if they implement rolling spawns and coddle zones it will be. 

[Pat_McGherkin 2,074]

@GregKjr

Right...because somehow you feel a player that has potentially played 21 games is not a new player?

 

Good job picking hairs 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Pat_McGherkin

[Barry100 185]

They are like lawyers, you hate them, except when you need them.

 

I was in a game the other day, I said in chat "There are two spawn campers."

 

There was a 100 player on our side (in the real Pro 100 squadron), he was flying the USA  Bf 109F-4 (of course), he said in chat "I'll take care of it"

 

And he did.

 

You can dive, you can engage them, you can dive and later side climb.

 

For the most part, the spawn campers don't dive down after you (well I do), but for the most part they don't.  It is not efficient for them.

 

So my final recommendation is to have an anti spawn camper plane in your lineup.  For  the USSR it is the I-153.

 

2:28 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddm9gylkAj8&list=PLbQesD0RQAek9EVV-e1pi6ilX_xzWwGk4&index=3

 

And for the mother of all spawn camping games that I have been in:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBVZt4W54Ws&index=1&list=PLbQesD0RQAek9EVV-e1pi6ilX_xzWwGk4

 

 

 

[Touched_Grass 758]

1 hour ago, Hohum33 said:

 

There is no spawn protection in aircraft. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. You have no credibility.

There are 5 seconds...

[GregKjr 520]

52 minutes ago, Hohum33 said:

 

"Love your choice of words like abandonment of my team, it nearly brought a tear to my eye "

 

This is a parody/sarcasm directed at *your* hyperbole.

 

@Hohum33

except it was not hyperbole on my part. he literally talked about how his team was getting killed and begging for help but it was not his problem <--- he literally abandoned his team...

you might want to go reread the thread friend.

 

 

@Pat_McGherkin

wow just wow

you state it can't happen then provide a pic of it not happening..... and some how I am wrong that it's not happening?

 

 

 

 

what the heck is going on in this forum???? it's like some kind of cult is taking over! <--- hyperbole

Edited August 13, 2017 by GregKjr

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

5 hours ago, CloCloZ said:

 

Because there is no sense in what he is suggesting.

He is just trying to say that spawn campers know how to fly and fight, whereas who disapproves spawn camping don't, furthermore employing the usual silly and faulty comparison with RL (for example, you could ask him where in RL enemy planes instantaneously appears at any time on the same known point in the sky, some thousand meters above the ground).

 

Deja vu, don't bother.

 

 

No, it was a sarcastic comment on the fact that those who complain about campers are the ones who never look up...He is not saying that all spawn campers know how to fly and fight, he has killed plenty of them...The usual silly and faulty comparison to RL was real (for example, is ludicrous to even cite...You want to spawn in AB or have an RB like take off and fly to the mission point???)  I guess all those P-51's and Typhoons that camped German airfields waiting for the 262's to return were cheating...

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

4 hours ago, VaperTrail said:

 

This is not about good players being Spawn Camped, its about newbies that many don't even know how to turn being smashed when they have no chance and don't know what to do, if you cant see the learning curve I don't know what to say, 100 level players using a game mechanic advantage over rank beginners is not fair and sporting play.

 

Like I said if these Spawn Campers want to show how good they are then circle below the Spawn and see if they can get 20 kills, not gunna happen because they want an advantage not a even game or a disadvantage, they want the jump and all advantage over a newbie.  Then we would be getting camped which would be pointless...Of course we want an advantage, why would we not use every advantage offered to us???...Should I stop using rudder because so many don't know how???, should I be forced to change my set up so I can't use 3 key control combinations anymore???...I got hammered as a Ace, but unlike so many I see now, I tried to figure the game out...Practice missions, endless msgs to long5hot and tx141 and learning spatial awareness...You either try and learn so you can feed or you remain food for the rest...

 

 

 

 

 

[VaperTrail 343]

2 hours ago, HochgeborenKlown said:

 Then we would be getting camped which would be pointless...Of course we want an advantage, why would we not use every advantage offered to us???...Should I stop using rudder because so many don't know how???, should I be forced to change my set up so I can't use 3 key control combinations anymore???...I got hammered as a Ace, but unlike so many I see now, I tried to figure the game out...Practice missions, endless msgs to long5hot and tx141 and learning spatial awareness...You either try and learn so you can feed or you remain food for the rest...

 

Your missing the point when the advantage is so great like sitting over a newbie that pops up right below you, if that's how you like to play that's ok that's your deal, I just think its dirty pool to play that way.

 

I don't bother me personally but Ive seen them club guys that don't know whats up before they can even get some speed up.

 

GregKjr, my team wasn't calling for help and I abandoned then lol, I was over the other side of the map but could see what was happening. so dramatic lol.

[CloCloZ 375]

5 hours ago, HochgeborenKlown said:

No, it was a sarcastic comment on the fact that those who complain about campers are the ones who never look up...He is not saying that all spawn campers know how to fly and fight, he has killed plenty of them...The usual silly and faulty comparison to RL was real (for example, is ludicrous to even cite...You want to spawn in AB or have an RB like take off and fly to the mission point???)  I guess all those P-51's and Typhoons that camped German airfields waiting for the 262's to return were cheating...

 

I want to spawn in AB because I'm not interested in boring RB, so what are you asking for? It's perfectly clear to me than AB are not realistic and I want exactly that: a GAME where there is much fun and little boredom.
By the way, also thinking that RB is a simulation of RL, i.e. that "flying" with mouse and keyboard is a simulation of real flight, is quite hilarious too. It's just a different kind of a game.

 

About camping on German airfields, the Allies soon stopped to do that because flak made more victims between them than Me262s shot down by Allied fighters.

So if you are advocating "realism" in AB spawn camping you should at least ask for sniping enemy flak, able to easily kill spawn campers at their own high altitudes.

Just this would make spawn camping barely similar to your example.

 

But, really, I think that seriousness of spawn camping issue is overrated.

At least under Tier IV I see the most of players going where the AB battle is, i.e. at medium-low altitudes, ignoring spawn campers.

At the same time, it seems to me that spawn campers are happy about that because they usually hate the infamous "furball" that could give them even more kills but more deaths too and this would wreck their "precious" stats, so they stay high to get kills especially of those enemies (often newbies) that waste time to engage them.
This also means that spawn campers don't even need to conquer "air superiority" (as they usually boast), they just occupy an area usually left empty by the other players (more honest and more objective focused) and have no need to fight for it: they just place themselves there, at the beginning of the battle, whereas their enemies sensibly go for targets (air and ground, both usually at much lower altitudes in AB).

Since is some months that I play AF AB just occasionally, I could be wrong if something changed meanwhile, for example about spawn camping and the need of bombers' protection.

 

So, the worst and more annoying thing about spawn campers is the mocking arrogance of the most of them, as they fully demonstrate on forums, not their impact on the game.

 

However, a change in spawn mechanism should be done (although it won't be done), to avoid this scandal:

 

 

 

A three selectable spawn point mechanism, such the one cited by Long5hot, doesn't entirely convince me, because an organized squadron which sistematically exploits spawn camping could simply split their forces to monitor any of them.

 

On the contrary, a random spawn point mechanism, within a large area, where the mechanism check in advance if there is a near enemy and in that case the spawned plane would appear above or at least not lower than him, would be much more effective.

But all this is a quite rhetorical exercise, because Gaijin will never change that, for the already said reasons.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by CloCloZ

[GregKjr 520]

On 8/11/2017 at 5:51 PM, VaperTrail said:

 

The last time I climbed and hung back to protect our spawn no spawn campers turned up lol  <-- so you did what people say to prevent spawn camping and it worked  so I wasted much time in a short game for nothing.<--you then decided it has no value and stopped doing it? I played a game last night and my team never got any kills at all as there were like 5-6 Spawn campers wiping them out,<-- and now your team gets spawn camped because you are no longer covering your spawn I was on the other side of the map and had 12 kills and never lost a plane  so didn't have to deal with them all,<--because the 12 kills are worth more than the 5 or 6 you can get clearing your spawn...I can understand that at least I felt like side climbing up to them but the games being so short Im not wasting that amount of time,<-- because you thought it was a wast of time and chose to go get your self 12 kills and leave the rest of your team to their fate my team was going mental in the chat complaining about them<-- that is them trying to get help  and most of my team was around 10 level and just couldn't do anything at the spawn except die.<-- the natural out come of your choice

 

The real victims of spawn campers<-- thy are not victims thy are combatants are new players <-- who don't fight level 100 players that don't know what to do but get killed, <-- when we tell them what to do it is on them to do it any 100 level player that thinks spawn camping newbies is fair game<-- as we already established level 100 players don't fight new players is a spawn camper trying to justify doing it,<-- thy don't need to justify it. thy openly tell guys how to work to over come it  if they want to show us how good their skills are why don't they sit below the spawn and give the newbies an advantage on them at least it would be sporting, <-- as you are a level 100 player show me how oh no cant do that its more fun shooting blind guppies in a barrel.<-- if that was true the whole academy section of the forum would not exist

 

Ive never liked spawn camping in any online shooter its always the same deal its purely an advantage for clubbing newbies, be like boxing and the bell rings and your opponent is standing over you throwing punches before you can get off the stool,<-- I don't follow boxing ... but I would think if a guy is just sitting on a stool when a new round starts maybe a good punch to the face is warranted its not sporting<-- sitting on ones but expecting to have success handed to your self is even less sporting at all and Gaijin should implement a no go zone to stop it.<-- if a safe space is implemented in any combat sport or game it defeats the whole purpose of the endeavor

 

so that's how I read your response to the entitlement post I made.

quite frankly I think your response was sufficient to prove my point to any reasonable person.

 

now maybe I am being a bit dramatic ..... but then maybe it's called for

Edited August 13, 2017 by GregKjr

[VaperTrail 343]

Where does it say  " his team was getting killed and begging for help but it was not his problem " I was over the other side of the map and never lost a plane to get to a spawn , there isn't time to back late in the match, I really don't follow you here, its like your trying to be super intelligent but its not working, this is not a complicated thing.

 

You don't have to justify why you Spawn Camp,  you have as much right thinking its great as I have thinking its dirty pool, I like the idea of CloCloz adding flak to the spawn, that would be fair for both sides wouldn't it ?

[Hohum33 680]

10 hours ago, GregKjr said:

 

@Hohum33

except it was not hyperbole on my part. he literally talked about how his team was getting killed and begging for help but it was not his problem <--- he literally abandoned his team...

 

Nevertheless, it was parody of your comment, not him actually crying. 

11 hours ago, _F1LTHY_M3M3R_ said:

There are 5 seconds...

Ok, no *meaningful* spawn protection from enemies.

[Hohum33 680]

5 hours ago, CloCloZ said:

 

 

 

However, a change in spawn mechanism should be done (although it won't be done), to avoid this scandal:

 

 

 

A three selectable spawn point mechanism, such the one cited by Long5hot, doesn't entirely convince me, because an organized squadron which sistematically exploits spawn camping could simply split their forces to monitor any of them.

 

On the contrary, a random spawn point mechanism, within a large area, where the mechanism check in advance if there is a near enemy and in that case the spawned plane would appear above or at least not lower than him, would be much more effective.

But all this is a quite rhetorical exercise, because Gaijin will never change that, for the already said reasons.

 

 

 

An organised squad who covers three spawns probably deserves the effect they'd create. It would happen a vanishingly small number of times.

 

Three selectable spawns, semi random spawns, flying on somewhere on the map limit. All easy solutions.

 

I still don't see the reason Gaijin wouldn't do it.

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

7 hours ago, CloCloZ said:

 

I want to spawn in AB because I'm not interested in boring RB, so what are you asking for? It's perfectly clear to me than AB are not realistic and I want exactly that: a GAME where there is much fun and little boredom....Your request to stop camping in AB, all planes in AB take off from the airfield...
By the way, also thinking that RB is a simulation of RL, i.e. that "flying" with mouse and keyboard is a simulation of real flight, is quite hilarious too. It's just a different kind of a game....Never said that...

 

About camping on German airfields, the Allies soon stopped to do that because flak made more victims between them than Me262s shot down by Allied fighters.

So if you are advocating "realism" in AB spawn camping you should at least ask for sniping enemy flak, able to easily kill spawn campers at their own high altitudes.

Just this would make spawn camping barely similar to your example....So sorry you are incorrect on both counts...Allied fighters dominated German airfields to the end of the war...The Germans were forced to hide planes in 1's and 2's in nearby woods and take off from roads and grass fields...The German flak was not as effective as you portray which is why Fw-190D's were used as top cover...As far as ingame, try sitting over the top of an enemy airfield and see what happens...Even better, do it at 2000m...

 

But, really, I think that seriousness of spawn camping issue is overrated.

At least under Tier IV I see the most of players going where the AB battle is, i.e. at medium-low altitudes, ignoring spawn campers.

At the same time, it seems to me that spawn campers are happy about that because they usually hate the infamous "furball" that could give them even more kills but more deaths too and this would wreck their "precious" stats, so they stay high to get kills especially of those enemies (often newbies) that waste time to engage them...Wrong again, it takes away the advantage of what a P-47 or F4U can do, namely BnZ...Neither is noted for its turning ability which is what is needed in a furball...
This also means that spawn campers don't even need to conquer "air superiority" (as they usually boast), they just occupy an area usually left empty by the other players (more honest and more objective focused) and have no need to fight for it: they just place themselves there, at the beginning of the battle, whereas their enemies sensibly go for targets (air and ground, both usually at much lower altitudes in AB)...You should talk about things you know about and this subject apparently is not one of them...When I decide to camp or even just climb there is always someone(s) on the other side who is climbing also...Try climbing in a P-47 to altitude and then facing 109-F4's, 190's, Spits, MiG-3s, Ki-100's and J2M2's to name a few...They all are at least as fast as the P-47 in level flight and far more maneuverable...Assuming you got to and claimed the altitude try and keep it if 2 or 3 or more enemy decide they are going to come up from different angles and directions and a host of B-25's decide to engage also...You obviously have no idea what goes on above your head...

Since is some months that I play AF AB just occasionally, I could be wrong if something changed meanwhile, for example about spawn camping and the need of bombers' protection.

 

So, the worst and more annoying thing about spawn campers is the mocking arrogance of the most of them, as they fully demonstrate on forums, not their impact on the game....I have no problem with them boasting although I don't bother with that, but they got up there and stayed up there and you all could not stop them...

 

However, a change in spawn mechanism should be done (although it won't be done), to avoid this scandal:...

 

 

Pretty silly meme, the mouse could peek around the corner, just like you can look at your mini map before respawning to see if your point is camped (and letting your TM's know about it which almost never happens)...Also the mouse walks out, you spawn in at about 80% of your top speed in level flight big difference...

A three selectable spawn point mechanism, such the one cited by Long5hot, doesn't entirely convince me, because an organized squadron which sistematically exploits spawn camping could simply split their forces to monitor any of them.

 

On the contrary, a random spawn point mechanism, within a large area, where the mechanism check in advance if there is a near enemy and in that case the spawned plane would appear above or at least not lower than him, would be much more effective....Still would not matter, currently you do not spawn in in a 40m circle, the spawn varies in altitude and area, I have killed bombers and then had them immediately spawn in 2 miles away from me...Of course knowing I just killed them means they fly straight and level which gives me plenty of time to loop back and kill the again so they can come here and complain...

But all this is a quite rhetorical exercise, because Gaijin will never change that, for the already said reasons.

 

 

You turned 5 sentences from me into a WOT, amazing!!...

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

9 hours ago, VaperTrail said:

 

Your missing the point when the advantage is so great like sitting over a newbie that pops up right below you, if that's how you like to play that's ok that's your deal, I just think its dirty pool to play that way...Only happened once in all my camping experience, 2 bombers spawned in side by side .8km in front of me...To be that close to a fighter spawning in I would have to be camped between the fighter and bomber spawn, not a favorite spot...Fighters typically spawn in 2500+m below me since I camp the bomber spawn and I am not giving up my bomber food to chase them down...

 

I don't bother me personally but Ive seen them club guys that don't know whats up before they can even get some speed up.

 

GregKjr, my team wasn't calling for help and I abandoned then lol, I was over the other side of the map but could see what was happening. so dramatic lol.

 

[Hohum33 680]

"currently you do not spawn in in a 40m circle, the spawn varies in altitude and area, I have killed bombers and then had them immediately spawn in 2 miles away from me"

 

2 miles away is extremely close when you're in a fighter.

[Touched_Grass 758]

4 hours ago, Hohum33 said:

Ok, no *meaningful* spawn protection from enemies.

5 seconds is plenty to put your cursor towards the ground and run away?

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

1 hour ago, Hohum33 said:

"currently you do not spawn in in a 40m circle, the spawn varies in altitude and area, I have killed bombers and then had them immediately spawn in 2 miles away from me"

 

2 miles away is extremely close when you're in a fighter...Sure, if I happen to be heading in their direction and I am diving at them and was already at full speed and now at WEP...Someone 2 miles away has plenty of time to see what is going on and evade...If they spent 12 seconds looking at the mini map before spawning they would see me...If they or a TM told the group I was up there they could choose to wait or not even bother to spawn...But the never do any of that so it becomes my fault somehow...Like Penny said, if they asked I and others like me could show them how to break campers, it is not terribly hard to do...But it is easier to complain than to actually do something about it...

 

 

[Hohum33 680]

3 hours ago, _F1LTHY_M3M3R_ said:

5 seconds is plenty to put your cursor towards the ground and run away?

 

You're very unlikely to get shot within 5 seconds of spawning, even if there are spawn campers.

[Hohum33 680]

"Sure, if I happen to be heading in their direction and I am diving at them and was already at full speed and now at WEP...Someone 2 miles away has plenty of time to see what is going on and evade..."

 

If someone is 2km from me and I'm BnZing like a spawn camper does, I am above them, I am at a good speed, and turning is no issue, because you're diving into it. They are a truly *excellent* target.

 

"But the never do any of that so it becomes my fault somehow"

 

You seem defensive. I don't blame people for spawn camping, I blame the design that makes it worthwhile. You'd be able to dominate from altitude without it, so I don't see why you defend it so much - unless you do just like it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Touched_Grass 758]

1 hour ago, Hohum33 said:

 

You're very unlikely to get shot within 5 seconds of spawning, even if there are spawn campers.

[Hohum33 680]

56 minutes ago, _F1LTHY_M3M3R_ said:

 

Sorry, difficult to tell sarcasm from actual opinion when there is so much dumb stuff being said.

 

So, you're saying your point has an altitude and speed advantage over me? Right? ;-)

Edited August 13, 2017 by Hohum33