ukraine Ukraine Ground Forces Tree

[leroyonly 4,310]

Guys, keep it on topic. I know that this will stay as a rather volitile topic for the foreseeable future however do keep politics out of it. So far most of you guys have been keeping this suggestion on-topic, please keep it that way. I also cleaned up some of the off-topic stuff.

[f_ritz 24]

My position:

 

It shouldn't be its standalone nation, but I would welcome the decals and roundels and such

My reasoning is that there's two ways to go about adding Ukraine as its own full tree:

- start at rank 4 with a bunch of copy paste stuff before you get to anything really Ukrainian

- start at rank 6 and have what is just a post-1991 stub tree
Neither is desirable in my view.

I'd like to see Ukrainian tanks integrated into the rest of the Soviet tree, which would fit well considering most of them are further developments of Soviet designs

And Western tech that has been sent to Ukraine can fit as premiums/event vehicles, be it in the Soviet tree or that of the sender

 

Something like this (non-Soviet/Russian vehicles are highlighted in flag colors), as should any other post-Soviet additions

I play around with this sheet a lot so don't take everything literally (especially not the ranks), think of it as a rough sketch

 

[Sarmatiko 673]

On 05/01/2023 at 03:06, Kingtiez@live said:

Anything coming out of recent events should be bared off, and for good reason.

There's no good reason. Donated vehicles are essential part of armed forces and all of them are combat tested at this point (the process, which not many vehicles in other nations trees has ever experienced).

 

ps: voted yes, should start at rank V, MOAR donated vehicles and trophies

Edited January 6, 2023 by Sarmatiko

[ZVO_12_INCH 492]

7 hours ago, Sarmatiko said:

There's no good reason. Donated vehicles are essential part of armed forces and all of them are combat tested at this point (the process, which not many vehicles in other nations trees has ever experienced).

 

ps: voted yes, should start at rank V, MOAR donated vehicles and trophies

You propose to introduce captured tanks into all lines of nations...or is it exclusive for Ukraine?...

for example, the T-72 AMT of the Russian Army...

Spoiler

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by ZVO_12_INCH

[ZVO_12_INCH 492]

10 hours ago, f_ritz said:

My position:

 

It shouldn't be its standalone nation, but I would welcome the decals and roundels and such

My reasoning is that there's two ways to go about adding Ukraine as its own full tree:

- start at rank 4 with a bunch of copy paste stuff before you get to anything really Ukrainian

- start at rank 6 and have what is just a post-1991 stub tree
Neither is desirable in my view.

I'd like to see Ukrainian tanks integrated into the rest of the Soviet tree, which would fit well considering most of them are further developments of Soviet designs

And Western tech that has been sent to Ukraine can fit as premiums/event vehicles, be it in the Soviet tree or that of the sender

 

Something like this (non-Soviet/Russian vehicles are highlighted in flag colors), as should any other post-Soviet additions

I play around with this sheet a lot so don't take everything literally (especially not the ranks), think of it as a rough sketch

 

T-80UD Bereza- by what criteria do you have a non-Soviet tank...

in Ukraine, there were 50 of them left after leaving the USSR....the rest are about 800 in Russian tank units...

T-80UD Bereza (object 478B) – (1985) NDZ Kontakt-1, KUV 9K119 Reflex, chassis type T-80B, SUO 1A45 Irtysh with a ballistic calculator LIO-V and a sensor measuring the velocity of the projectile, a rangefinder sight 1G46, a night sight TPN-4 Buran-PA, gyropolukompas GPK-59, radio station R-173 with digital control system, mounts for installing a minesweeper, Ford system, closed ZPU...

T-80UD(1988) Bereza late – VDZ Kontakt-5, increased engine reliability, welded turret..

Main T-80UD tank (Birch 478B Object) (topwar.ru)

The Yeltsin rebellion...October 1993..T-80UD..

Spoiler

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by ZVO_12_INCH

[AVROVULCANXH558 349]

On 05/12/2022 at 06:08, Yontzee said:

• Spoiler

  • Object 477A1 ‘Nota’
  • Object 477A ‘Molot’
  • Object 477 ’Bokser’
  • PT-91 Twardy
  • T-84 Oplot-P
  • BTMP-84
  • Object 488
  • T-80UD (Drozd APS)
  • Object 478B
  • Object 478DU
  • Object 478DU2
  • Object 478DU4
  • Object 478DU5
  • T-72E
  • T-72AMG
  • T-72UMG
  • T-72AG
  • T-72AB
  • T-72B1
  • T-72M1R
  • T-72M1
  • T-64BV zr. 2022
  • T-64B1M
  • T-64B1
  • T-62AGM
  • T-62M
  • T-62
  • T-55-64
  • M-55S
  • BMP-55
  • BM-AB-13
  • OT-62 'Topas'
  • Azovets Armored Fighting Vehicle
  • Scorpion KASTET
  • BMP Duplet
  • M-80A
  • BTR-4MV1
  • BTR-80 'Joker'
  • BTR-70-KBA-2 zr. 2004
  • MT-LBR7
  • MT-LBMSh (Myanmar)
  • Otaman-3
  • Varan IFV
  • SBA Novator 'Amulet'
  • BRDM-2 'Amulet'
  • BRDM-2T-23-2
  • Gepard 1A2
  • Stormer HVM
  • 9K330 Tor-M
  • Various Self-Propelled Artillery Pieces (not going to list as there's not many practical reasons to add a lot of artillery yet).

 

+1 to the tree, starting from Rank V. In my opinion, there should be more of the vehicles mentioned above, as most of them are unique to Ukraine

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

On 29/12/2022 at 22:32, Yontzee said:

New update, if this does occur, it will be added to the honorable mentions/future additions tab of the suggestion. Reports are coming in that White House officials may send Bradley IFV’s to the UAF. I’m not sure what model, some options are M2A2 ODS, M2A3 Bradley, or M3A3 Bradley.

 

Source: 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-29/us-weighs-sending-bradley-fighting-vehicles-to-bolster-ukraine?utm_source=website&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=twitter&sref=yYYRek8e

I’d like to mention @Renamed74985 for there awesome UA skin on WTLive for the M3A3 Bradley. 

Link:

https://live.warthunder.com/post/1058766/ru/

 

Is there an UA skin for Marder?

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

19 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

Is there an UA skin for Marder?

You can find it in WT Live

[Yontzee 1,673]

46 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

Is there an UA skin for Marder?

Here is one from @Renamed74985.

Source: https://live.warthunder.com/post/1059242/ru/

 

Here is another one from @Dytiatky.

Source: https://live.warthunder.com/post/1044847/en/

 

One is for the Marder A1, the other for the Marder 1A3. Special thanks to both of them 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Yontzee

[Yontzee 1,673]

Bonus information, 18x M109A6 ‘Paladin’ 155mm self-propelled howitzers are being donated from the United States, all these vehicles are going to be added to the ‘Honorable Mentions/Future Additions’ section for the time being.

 

M109A6 ‘Paladin’ SPH.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Yontzee

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

12 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Bonus information, 18x M109A6 ‘Paladin’ 155mm self-propelled howitzers are being donated from the United States, all these vehicles are going to be added to the ‘Honorable Mentions/Future Additions’ section for the time being.

 

M109A6 ‘Paladin’ SPH.

‘Honorable Mentions/Future Additions’ section: Buk with RIM-7 and some plane with Zuni

[Sarmatiko 673]

8 hours ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

You propose to introduce captured tanks into all lines of nations...or is it exclusive for Ukraine?...

for example, the T-72 AMT of the Russian Army...

Sure, why not? It would be Gaijin's decision in the end if some specific trophy will add something to the specific nation tree.
Also numbers and extensive use could determine if a trophy will be premium\package vehicle or it could be placed into a regular tree.

If Ukraine already has (according to OSINT sources) 100 captured T-72B3 obr 2016 and 80+ older T-72B3 and uses them in combat extensively - that's a significant enough number to place this tank into regular tree if necessary, And yes, I know about the claim that only 50% of trophies are usable and the other half is garbage useful only as source for parts - what's left it's still significant numbers.

 

Now something like T-90M on the other hand - we know that 30 OMBr in AFU already repaired it and uses it in combat. Also some amount of Т-90А (let's say 5 out of 12 captured) is used.
Would they be useful to Ukrainian tech tree? Maybe, but probably not.
Could Gaijin use the fact that they were trophies and sell them as 80$ packages at some point in the future? They absolutely could.
Will I personally be interested in these tanks in Ukrainian tree? Most likely not.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Sarmatiko

[DEERE317 78]

Gaijin has sold captured stuff before. German T-34, KV-1 (well it’s actually Finnish but whatever), KV-2, KV-1 756, Sherman, and Churchill.

Thats just the German tree off the top of my head.

[Kingtiez@live 606]

15 hours ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

You propose to introduce captured tanks into all lines of nations...or is it exclusive for Ukraine?...

for example, the T-72 AMT of the Russian Army...

Hide contents

 

Trophy vehicles a good idea?

Edited January 7, 2023 by Kingtiez@live

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

1 hour ago, Kingtiez@live said:

Trophy vehicles a good idea?

In some situations: Yes!

[Kingtiez@live 606]

36 minutes ago, HIMARS_Enjoyer said:

In some situations: Yes!

I suppose for older vehicles like we already see.

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

"party" T-64 zr.2017(i think). Proposing it as skin for T-64.

8 minutes ago, Kingtiez@live said:

I suppose for older vehicles like we already see.

I didn't understand this message :/

[Kingtiez@live 606]

1 minute ago, HIMARS_Enjoyer said:

"party" T-64 zr.2017(i think). Proposing it as skin for T-64.

I didn't understand this message :/

And I don’t understand this one  

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

Just now, Kingtiez@live said:

And I don’t understand this one  

My message is proposition to add this skin for T-64. 

[Kingtiez@live 606]

Just now, HIMARS_Enjoyer said:

My message is proposition to add this skin for T-64. 

Oh, yeah gaijin definitely missed a opportunity 

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

1 minute ago, Kingtiez@live said:

Oh, yeah gaijin definitely missed a opportunity 

Yes

Some guys from Telegram made this camo for M2 Bradley in UAF style

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

19 hours ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

You propose to introduce captured tanks into all lines of nations...or is it exclusive for Ukraine?...

for example, the T-72 AMT of the Russian Army...

Hide contents

 

The Questions more about, Do Russia need a captured AMT as premium/event? It would've been 'yes', if the vehicle options for Russia were already dwindling ...
But since the nation already has so many more vehicles left to be added like, T-72M1M, T-72B2 Rogatka, T-72B3 Arena, Object 187 ... (just to name a few) ... I don't think so.
There's already a huge backlog of Russia's own vehicles that needs to be added first.
And even before that, the already existing Ru TT is oversaturated and filled to the brim.
 

[Capt_Yunaris 109]

People be crazy if they don't think this is coming eventually. 

 

It simply makes economic sense. Gaijin will always be adding more nations, why?  Because the grind makes people play, the grind makes people pay .  Ukraine has identified itself as one of the most important military forces in modern history, outside of the usual suspects.  They are essentially assured to be a tech tree.  

 

As an aside, Gaijin. I don't plan on spending a penny on the Russian TT.  I will however happily buy every Ukrainian premium you offer.  

Signed,

A whale. 

 

[AVROVULCANXH558 349]

1 hour ago, Raiden_Black said:

And even before that, the already existing Ru TT is oversaturated and filled to the brim.

Not to mention that Russia will likely end up get Belarusian vehicles as well.....

[Yontzee 1,673]

3 hours ago, Raiden_Black said:

An Ukrainian TT + Polish sub-tree is the obvious combo going forward for WT (if Ukr TT gets greenlit, that is).
:P

 

Yeah, with the deepening cooperation, I may build a TT with Polish and Ukrainian vehicles. I don't know if it will be a suggestion any time soon. May combine my Ukraine Ground Forces Tree Suggestion with my Polish Sub-tree Suggestion (not making the Poles the sub-tree, just use the vehicles from it) and create a Polish-Ukrainian Ground Forces tree. Probably could start from Rank I due to Polish vehicles and the T-12/T-24 medium tanks with some help from BT-series, and other Soviet vehicles. 

 

We'll see 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Yontzee

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

22 hours ago, HIMARS_Enjoyer said:

‘Honorable Mentions/Future Additions’ section: Buk with RIM-7 and some plane with Zuni

Adapting Sea Sparrow RIM-7 missile to fire from 2K12 Kub (SA-6) SAM system -- Buk's predecessor have already been carried out in past.
Raytheon (Sea Sparrow manufacturer) and Polish WZU-2 have worked on this since 2007.





Also, Czech company RETIA in cooperation with European missile manufacturer MBDA adapted Aspide 2000 surface-air missile (a derivative of Sea Sparrow RIM-7E with better engine and seeker) to the same Kub 2K12 system.