Tanks/Vehicles E-100 Addition(updated)

[Gator_ 530]

The day the E-series get's introduced is the day I uninstall.

 

You have to draw a line somewhere and this fantasy-crap is not needed.

 

 

If I want fantasy I play WoT. Can we have ONE game not being dragged down by all those fantasy-tank nonsense?

 

 

(And yes..the E-100 is a also a fantasy tank. A half finshed chassis doesn't even make a protoype. It's a crap tank twice the weight of the King Tiger but using the same engine/transmission. The thing would have been slower than the Maus, had greater ground pressure and is just generally a xxxx tank. I don't care what engine MIGHT have been or not, fact is the half-finished hull had more King Tiger parts in it then E-100 parts. It would have sucked).

 

Agreed. Funny how so many German players can cry and whine about historical accuracy but are the first on the bandwagon for tanks that never existed or only existed as a prototype.

 

i desire a good uninstall for you :good:

 

I bet you do. The lower the amount of reasonable voices on here, the better your chances for magical tanks that never existed, to be implemented.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Gator_

[Galen503 547]

i desire a good uninstall for you :good:

And this is what comes next. Insults and personal attacks on those of us that don't want fantasy tanks. Thanks for letting this start again. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by galen503

[_PabloSniper_ 2,142]

And this is what comes next. Insults and personal attacks on those of us that don't want fantasy tanks. Thanks for letting this start again. 

I do not insulted or attacked anyone. I just made a comment.

which insult or personal attack that has that phrase?

"i desire a good uninstall for you "

I think you have problems with reading and interpretation

Nobody needs to know whether or not you will uninstall the game.

do not try pass for victim

this is a game, and is the only place where we could know what would be the performance of a tank that has not passed the design phase.

Be democratic,  make a vote to see how many are in favor and those against.

Now, do not give me want to impose their ideas like laws.

Edited March 7, 2015 by _PabloSniper_

[Galen503 547]

 

I do not insulted or attacked anyone. I just made a comment.

which insult or personal attack that has that phrase?

"i desire a good uninstall for you "

I think you have problems with reading and interpretation

Nobody needs to know whether or not you will uninstall the game.

do not try pass for victim

this is a game, and is the only place where we could know what would be the performance of a tank that has not passed the design phase.

Be democratic,  make a vote to see how many are in favor and those against.

Now, do not give me want to impose their ideas like laws.

Actually there is no way to ever know how a tank that has not passed from a design phase will preform. There is no way to know how a prototype would actually preform in combat. There is absolutely no way to know how a hull would ever look or preform if it actually got further than a hull. The truth is there is no way to know how an E100 would ever preform because in reality it never existed. If I am struggling to read and interpret you it is because your english is not good. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by galen503

[_PabloSniper_ 2,142]

Actually there is no way to ever know how a tank that has not passed from a design phase will preform. There is no way to know how a prototype would actually preform in combat. There is absolutely no way to know how a hull would ever look or preform if it actually got further than a hull. The truth is there is no way to know how an E100 would ever preform because in reality it never existed. If I am struggling to read and interpret you it is because your english is not good. 

I understand that my english is poor.

I am brazilian, and I learned english playing online since 2003.

Never attended any school of english, but always managed to communicate well with people in english, and even with my limitations, it is easy to see that I have not insulted anyone,

[Bombastikus 14,039]

I don't feel insulted. I just don't understand why ANYONE would want such a bad fantasy tank in the game? (And I am a mostly german player)

 

Why don't those that want it play World of Tanks? Has EVERY game to be exactly the same. The reason many players are here with Warthunder and NOT world of tanks is that - despite slowly loosing it - the greater historical accuracy.

 

 

How the hell would you even implement ANY E-Series tank? There is no data whatsoever about them. There are only assumptions. If you think a E-100 would have a speed of 40km/h and would perform just like a King Tiger you are deluded.

 

The whole E-Series was just a big "WHAT IF" even back then, the few prototypes that were planned (and not even finished) were only technological test-beds, no way any of those would have EVER gone into series production.

 

 

 

Ok...that leaves game balance. But game balance is on it's way. We have the Maus...so heavies are covered and with the introduction we have now three strong vehicles we can take into 8.0 battles. Sure, they might be a bit outclassed again when M60 and T-62 start appearing...but still...it's nowhere NEAR as bad as it was until now.

 

 

Simply, the E-Series is complete fantasy with no real documentation and isn't needed.

[_PabloSniper_ 2,142]

I don't feel insulted. I just don't understand why ANYONE would want such a bad fantasy tank in the game? (And I am a mostly german player)

 

Why don't those that want it play World of Tanks? Has EVERY game to be exactly the same. The reason many players are here with Warthunder and NOT world of tanks is that - despite slowly loosing it - the greater historical accuracy.

 

 

How the hell would you even implement ANY E-Series tank? There is no data whatsoever about them. There are only assumptions. If you think a E-100 would have a speed of 40km/h and would perform just like a King Tiger you are deluded.

 

The whole E-Series was just a big "WHAT IF" even back then, the few prototypes that were planned (and not even finished) were only technological test-beds, no way any of those would have EVER gone into series production.

 

 

 

Ok...that leaves game balance. But game balance is on it's way. We have the Maus...so heavies are covered and with the introduction we have now three strong vehicles we can take into 8.0 battles. Sure, they might be a bit outclassed again when M60 and T-62 start appearing...but still...it's nowhere NEAR as bad as it was until now.

 

 

Simply, the E-Series is complete fantasy with no real documentation and isn't needed.

 

 

in my opinion, your argument is only valid for the E-100.

E-50 was only the technological refinement of thoroughly tested Phanter.

you see any big difference from E-50 to Phanter II?

changes very little

 

Like the E-75 was a refinement of Tiger II, including using practically the same chassis.

 

Edited March 7, 2015 by _PabloSniper_

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

Simply, the E-Series is complete fantasy with no real documentation

This also depents to the R2Y2 V1 to V3 in the Japanese tech tree ... for example ...

[Galen503 547]

 

in my opinion, your argument is only valid for the E-100.

E-50 was only the technological refinement of thoroughly tested Phanter.

you see any big difference from E-50 to Phanter II?

changes very little

 

Like the E-75 was a refinement of Tiger II, including using practically the same chassis.

 

The problem is these are not the drawings of WWII german tank designers. They are the creation of german tank enthusiasts looking for original book ideas and modeling companies looking to expand their product line. In fact I have never seen any technical drawing, or drawing at all for that matter, made by the germans of any ESeries tank with the exception of E100. They were talked about, that we are certain of. None ever came even close to being prototypes. Once again this was all covered in great detail in the other Eseries thread. If you simply read that thread you will see all of these arguments. 

 

But here is the most important part. This game was never supposed to be balanced. Its supposed to be accurate, by real world conditions countries balanced their tanks to be more successful on the battlefield. Unfortunately the devs did try to balance the game by implementing prototypes or paper tanks and they simply chose to go with the more likely solutions; the Panther II pretty much is the E50; The KT 105 pretty much is an E75; The Maus pretty much is the E100.

 

The maus is actually a good tank. But there is no reason what so ever to think that the ESeries paper fantasy tanks would preform at all differently from what the devs already put in game. This is even taking into account that we have no idea what the germans would have come up with. Based on the technology available in 1944 and what projections the german could have made at that point we still have a E50 with the 88 and a E75 with the 105 and similar armor to the panther II and KT105 respectively. The problem becomes is that devs then have a blank check to start "buffing" and "nerfing" tanks the same as WoT. Because there is no real world data to support these tanks the devs can simply make them into whatever they want. Thus the ESeries tanks are no more a german tank than a T54... designed in Russia, 

 

I understand people want more german tanks and I have scene some great suggestions in the middle tiers where the game is more fun to play anyhow. I suggest we focus our efforts there. 

[Italianplayer 1,666]

This also depents to the R2Y2 V1 to V3 in the Japanese tech tree ... for example ...

They call it balance. They don't have nothing so let's make thing with their blueprint

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

They call it balance. They don't have nothing so let's make thing with their blueprint

You should check out wich part of the staitment i have quote and who my words was a answer too ;)

[_PabloSniper_ 2,142]

The problem is these are not the drawings of WWII german tank designers. They are the creation of german tank enthusiasts looking for original book ideas and modeling companies looking to expand their product line.

this is the biggest crap I've ever heard (read), has several books dealing exclusively with the E-series line

if you do not know any, I can provide one for download.

Edited March 7, 2015 by _PabloSniper_

[Galen503 547]

 

this is the biggest crap I've ever heard (read), has several books dealing exclusively with the E-series line

if you do not know any, I can provide one for download.

 

Not one picture or schematic or drawing from those books has any root in WWII germany. The diagrams are all based on either the author or another author who made the drawings Post WWII. If you can find any real diagrams, schematics, technical drawings on any E-Series tank other than an E100 please post them. I have arleady gone through what Hilary Doyle, circa 1970-1990s, thinks these tanks would have looked like. Once again go read that thread.

 

I can write a book using my ideas. I can hypothesis what the eseries would have been. If a publisher, and all of the publishers of these books specialize in german tanks, chose to publish my book doesn't make my ideas an actual reality. There is nothing wrong with these books its okay to have ideas and publish them. But follow the sources and fully comprehend the ideas of the book don't take it as facts because a book is called the ESeries tanks that now the ESeries was actually further along. 

 

The ESeries is known only because of WoT making it popular. Prior to WoT it was found only in a handful of books by and for german tank enthusiasts. These books posed hypothetical ideas about possible future german tank designs based on the limited resources that are available on these vehicles.  Sorry but the ESeries is fantasy, there are books on dragons and unicorns too.

 

But by all means prove us all wrong and finally post all of the german technical data on these tanks that were drawn and accepted by german tank design firms from WWII.  

Edited March 7, 2015 by galen503

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

Ähm ... from the E10 was made a woden mock up and from the E100 was made a (unfinished) prototype ... the Entwicklungsserie was much more advanced as the most want to belive ...

[Galen503 547]

Ähm ... from the E10 was made a woden mock up and from the E100 was made a (unfinished) prototype ... the Entwicklungsserie was much more advanced as the most want to belive ...

I am not going to reargue all of this. Once again you would have seen all of this if you read the previous thread on the ESeries. But no there was no Wooden mock up of an e10. Maybe an E5 but even that was debatable. 

 

The E100, this thread is supposed to be just the E100, should not be in game as it was not a prototype it was a hull. Good luck and good tanking to all. 

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

Or what it the E5 ... no matter ^^

At least i dont care about the Entwicklungsseires ... after what is known about them (and there all drawings based on) they would look badass, for sure, but, for example, the E50 and E75 would be no real improvments to the Tiger II mit 10,5cm KwK (who already has the E75 turret) and the Panther II (who is very different to the real one) ...

[XenomorphZZ 420]

There were drawings of armor schemes... and that's pretty much it...

 

http://overlord-wot.blogspot.com/2012/06/wot-transmission-response-from-mr-doyle.html

 

There are mentions of documents involving armor schemes and drive trains, but not both in the same diagrams.

[Bombastikus 14,039]

 

in my opinion, your argument is only valid for the E-100.

E-50 was only the technological refinement of thoroughly tested Phanter.

you see any big difference from E-50 to Phanter II?

changes very little

 

That is the point. We just don't know.

 

Let's take the E-50 for example. The hull looks similar to the Panther II, true. But where does that come from? I know Hilary Doyle drew them but what are they based on? Afaik he also made only a "what if" drawing.

 

All we really know is that certain things are supposed to be different. Suspension is different since they wanted to replace the very good but expensive torsion bars. Then the whole drive train was supposed to move to the back of the vehicle like in modern tanks. Transmission, steering gear and final drive was supposed to be a single unit. But looking at the drawing.....there isn't enough place in the engine compartment for that, so if they really wanted to do that they couldn't just made a Panther II hull, they would have needed to change things quite a bit.

 

They wanted to make the vehicle much lower than the normal Panther, hence drivetrain to the back, no torsion bars and not drive shaft. And yet the E-50 hull seems to be the exact same height as the Panther II. Why all the wasted space? That can't be right now, can it?

 

Etc. etc. etc. etc. If they'd gone on with the E-50 and realised everything that was planned for it, I GUARANTEE you that the finished tank would have looked quite different to a panther II. But we do not know since.....not even blueprints where made.

[Galen503 547]

From Hilary Doyle Himself:

 

 

 My drawings are based on the sketches attached.  Clearly, these first thoughts and proposals on future Panzer requirements were never given any priority and as the war situation deteriorated.  To me the “real“ engine/transmission package designers from Maybach never actively got involved and the armour designers certainly had not considered how a rear drive might be mounted.  What we see are proposals “that are the best ideas since sliced bread” being pushed by fringe companies and they certainly had no authority to  design the necessary new armoured hull.

 

Any additional information published on E50 or E 75 besides that in Panzer Tracts No.20-1 and Spielberger's  Band 8 Special-panzerfahrzeuge  is merely fantasy and should be labelled as such.

 

Its actually a really interesting article. If nothing else it should put to rest any argument about there being actual grounds to create an ESeries vehicle. It was an interesting concept and it is great for modeling and fantasy tank games. Can we now finally agree that there was no real effort by Germany to create the ESeries vehicles regardless of why. 

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

This drawings simple based on the known stuff about the planings of this tanks ... for example is fact, that the E50 and E75 should get the same hulls, just with different armor thiknesses. Futhermore it is known that it was planed that the layout shouls similar to the Tiger II hull, just with a better angle of the front armor. The armor level of the E50 should be equal to the Panther's one and the E75 ones should be equal to the Tiger II ones. The E50 should get the Schmalturm and the E75 a turret whos layout should similar to the Tiger II ones. There was also already drawings and test with the new modular suspention system. And at least the E50 should be armed with the 8,8cm KwK 43 L/71 or a 10,5cm KwK L/52 who should based on the 10cm Schwere Feldkanone 18, the E75 should be armed with the 10,5cm KwK 46 L/68 or a 8,8cm KwK L/100 ... so, that's the known fact who the drawings based on ...

[The_Riddick 1,039]

The IS-7 will be able to 1 shot these tanks front on, while not being able to be 1 shot front on itself (at any range). So this will not solve any balance issues with the game atm.

[XenomorphZZ 420]

The IS-7 isn't going to be added to the game. Stop acting like it will.

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

The IS-7 isn't going to be added to the game. Stop acting like it will.

Best part on the storry is, that the IS-10 aka T-10 is already confirmed ;)

[XenomorphZZ 420]

Best part on the storry is, that the IS-10 aka T-10 is already confirmed ;)

 

Point being? Its much easier to deal with than the IS-7.

[Evil_Wehraboo 398]

Point being? Its much easier to deal with than the IS-7.

Ask Gaijin ... but the point is, they confirmed it ... but at least, the IS-10 is not much better then the IS-4. Just a smal advange in the point fire power to the IS-4 ... the IS-7 would be a absolute other calibre