tech tree Visegrad Group - Ground tech tree

[Miltaccfd 240]

18 hours ago, Miltaccfd said:

I heard about one or a small number of Challangers in Czechoslovakian service after the war

 

Yes, Czechoslovakia bought 22 of them from brigade inventory and operated for 6 years after the war. I will gain some info on them (which type, ammo, etc) and you might will see them somehow in the tree. These are rank III, and I written down why the post war things should be in the 4th rank, so I might put it there. In the same time, its 5.3 and I dont want to make a good 5.3 lineup (because thats a mixed lineup of the bad type -> PT-76B, Challanger with Tas and Nimród...) so I think Challanger will be a premium only. Or make the other Tas premium. We will see

[PacketlossRedux 595]

2 hours ago, Miltaccfd said:

thats a mixed lineup of the bad type -> PT-76B, Challanger with Tas and Nimród...) so I think Challanger will be a premium only. Or make the other Tas premium. We will see

even tho all of this is up to Gaijin in the end, personally i think most would prefer indigenous designs in normal tree than a brittish c&p

Edited March 12, 2020 by Jacky95

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

I would suggest adding the T34 R10, Tatra MT-6 and the LV-157. 

 

https://www.tankarchives.ca/2019/02/su-100-czechoslovakian-style.html

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/05/17/czechoslovak-post-war-aa-gun-tank-projects-part-2/

 

These are also good suggestions for reference on Visegrad vehicles

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Private_Wolk

[Miltaccfd 240]

3 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

I would suggest adding the T34 R10, Tatra MT-6 and the LV-157.

I made some research on them. Lets see why these arent in the tree:

T-34 R10 (as in its name) has 57 mm R10 autocannon. This autocannon used different cartridge (57x450 as I remember) than the russian counterparts (57x348SR for S-60 and 57x480 for AT guns). The problem is there was no AP round in use with this cartridge. There wasnt even in existence as I know. So if we want to be realistic, this SPAA could use only HE rounds (two types), which makes it unable to kill most of the ground vehicles ingame. Thats a quite disadvantageous thing in tank battles.

Tatra MT-6 is the same gun as HIM-6 on a different chassis, i dont think we need another one of those. Same for the Skoda MU-6, it differs from the HIM-6, but another fast firing glass cannon would be too much in that BR. I personally dont want to spam the SPAA tree with them, as these would be more like TDs ingame than SPAAs.
The reason why HIM-6 is in the tree, and not the MT-6 is we know more about it.

LV-157 is the commander variant of LP-157, but with quad .50 cals. It was never made. I think you think about the LP-157 instead. It was "only" a full mockup, but the bigger problem is the gun again, it uses the same cartridge as the R10 from the first vehicle (as it uses a modified version of it, the R12). However for this vehicle in a later part of your link of wot-news there is an info, it would have 32 piece of AP ammunition called JPSv. However until now I didnt found this ammo (just the 57-JPSv-PTK 43, which is the 57x480 for the Zis-2 AT gun), so it was probably never manufactured. If anyone can find info on this AP ammo I will add the T-34 R10 with it, but this LP-157 mockup probably has no place ingame.

[PacketlossRedux 595]

@Miltaccfd

another idea for the tech tree logo also the source

Edited March 15, 2020 by Jacky95

[Miltaccfd 240]

@Jacky95 This is unofficial as well. Visegrád Group has no official flag, it has only a logo ( @Borotovas sent it in a former reply, officially its a logo, but on that picture it is shown as a flag).

[stefffff1871 2,448]

On 15/03/2020 at 18:41, Jacky95 said:

@Miltaccfd

another idea for the tech tree logo also the source

oof. well made but the slovak COA makes it too slovakian, when the other nations only get colors

 

[Miltaccfd 240]

3 hours ago, stefffff1871 said:

oof. well made but the slovak COA makes it too slovakian, when the other nations only get colors

 

There are some real good Visegrád Group flag on the internet, but all of them made by users of the actual website. (Reddit, Pinterest and others...) Sadly none of them can be used as none of them are official. Thats why I choosed the flag of Visegrád (town). There are the logo of Visegrád and the patch of the Visegrád Battlegroup, too. That should be enough...

Edited March 16, 2020 by Miltaccfd

[Borotovas 4,500]

On 16/03/2020 at 16:37, stefffff1871 said:

oof. well made but the slovak COA makes it too slovakian, when the other nations only get colors

 

I agree with that. Each country must be represented equally. 

[Lord_KROK 193]

Great work guys, but where is the airplanes? And the boats? 

[QeDpln 42]

1 hour ago, Lord_KROK said:

Great work guys, but where is the airplanes? And the boats? 

An air tree post might still take a bit, @Miltaccfd was a bit busy this last month. If you want a little preview for planes and boats (and helicopters) check out the link to the google spreadsheet. The other trees can be found there in other tabs.

Edited March 22, 2020 by QeDpln

[Ruthless95 1,177]

it sounds cool but

 

ground is dominated by hungary, air is dominated by czechslovakia. and i assume naval will be dominated by poland because of having a consistent shoreline during the years.

 

so air will be 2 czech lines, 1 hungarian line and 1 polish line

ground will be 2 hungarian lines, 1 czechslovak line, 1 polish line

 

 

[Miltaccfd 240]

30 minutes ago, Ruthless95 said:

it sounds cool but

 

ground is dominated by hungary, air is dominated by czechslovakia. and i assume naval will be dominated by poland because of having a consistent shoreline during the years.

 

so air will be 2 czech lines, 1 hungarian line and 1 polish line

ground will be 2 hungarian lines, 1 czechslovak line, 1 polish line

 

 

Its not really dominated by any of the nations. Hungary dominates only in rank II-III ground, where there less Czechoslovakian and Polish vehicles are, but there is almost nothing from Hungary above Rank III. Air is splitted around 40-40-20 between Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Naval Rank I-II is quite nicely mixed due the good amount of Czechoslovak and Hungarian riverboats, later mainly Poland filled up with Austro-Hungarian ships if needed. Helicopter tree is actually dominated by Poland. 

[Ruthless95 1,177]

56 minutes ago, Miltaccfd said:

Its not really dominated by any of the nations. Hungary dominates only in rank II-III ground, where there less Czechoslovakian and Polish vehicles are, but there is almost nothing from Hungary above Rank III. Air is splitted around 40-40-20 between Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Naval Rank I-II is quite nicely mixed due the good amount of Czechoslovak and Hungarian riverboats, later mainly Poland filled up with Austro-Hungarian ships if needed. Helicopter tree is actually dominated by Poland. 

thx for the info

this suggestion is one of the more interesting suggestions out of all mixed nation trees

i also like this tree because it has separated hungary and romania for the first time. im interested in hungary more than romania so a tree having hungary separated from romania is golden imo

[QeDpln 42]

12 hours ago, Ruthless95 said:

i also like this tree because it has separated hungary and romania for the first time. im interested in hungary more than romania so a tree having hungary separated from romania is golden imo

Additionally Romania is quite able to support a tree on its own. You can even throw in the few vehicles that Bulgaria, Moldovia and Transnistria have to offer since they are definitely unable to sustain a tree on their own.

[PikPikker 444]

You did a good job, but sorry, I voted no. Want to know why? Well, my opinion is simple: every country which has enough vehicles to go as independent tech tree should go this way. And all of these countries from Visegrad group (Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary) can be done as independent nations. I did not make any researches, but I believe all of them are strong enough to make their own air tech trees. And this would be enough to introduce 3 these trees to the game. Not sure about boats, but anyway, they are not necessary.

 

So, I don't see any reasons myself why this mixed TT is better than 3 nations alone. I haven't played lots of battles but I can say I think there should be both big and small nations in WarThunder, and honestly I personally prefer smaller ones because I like to go 6 vehicles per rank rather than 20.

 

Anyway, I would be happy to ride Visegrad vehicles in WarThunder no matter which way they will be implemented. 

[Fliegel 1,660]

On 11/03/2020 at 16:17, Miltaccfd said:

The second problem is these tanks and planes were used by Czechoslovakians and Poles, and later the tanks had been returned to USA and Britain, but werent operated by Poland itself (as there was no Poland and Czechoslovakia when these were crewed with their former citizens

Don't know about Poles, but the tanks of the Czechoslovakian brigade were not just lent - they had to be bought by the exile goverment. 

So they were not returnerned to UK and served in the army after the war. Cromwells (even the uparmoured) and A30 Challengers (as replacement for Fireflies) served up the 50's in the Czechoslovakia army.

So together with T-34 and IS-2 for some time. I actually knew a tank driver who drove both Cromwell and T-34 during his military service in the Czechoslovakian army (he obviously prefered Cromwell).

That said, it would be copypaste and that is just bad thing in general. I just though it might be interesting.

[Miltaccfd 240]

56 minutes ago, Fliegel said:

Don't know about Poles, but the tanks of the Czechoslovakian brigade were not just lent - they had to be bought by the exile goverment. 

So they were not returnerned to UK and served in the army after the war. Cromwells (even the uparmoured) and A30 Challengers (as replacement for Fireflies) served up the 50's in the Czechoslovakia army.

So together with T-34 and IS-2 for some time. I actually knew a tank driver who drove both Cromwell and T-34 during his military service in the Czechoslovakian army (he obviously prefered Cromwell).

That said, it would be copypaste and that is just bad thing in general. I just though it might be interesting.

Challenger was discussed before, ill make a big "update" to the tree after the aviation suggestion. I think Cromwell is not needed, as you see, there is no post-war stuff under 5.3 in the tree (except Avia S-199 - because its only a modified Bf 109, I dont think anyone will complain about it - and three premiums in the 4.7-5.0 range, Pe-2FT, La-7B-20 and Yak-9P), I dont want to change that.

[Miltaccfd 240]

We work on this suggestion behind the scenes, if you find differences in the suggestion and the Google Sheets files "penetration table" part, the Sheets are up to date (for example we found new ammunition and muzzle velocity datas), these differences will be fixed soon on the forum, too.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Miltaccfd

[QeDpln 42]

On 29/03/2020 at 04:25, PikPikker said:

every country which has enough vehicles to go as independent tech tree should go this way.

I have to disagree with that assessment. On their own they are bare bone trees and/or are filled with copy pastes which ought to be avoided.

This way we can minimize CP and provide a nice and substantive tree for players to enjoy.

Thanks for the Feedback though.

[PikPikker 444]

11 hours ago, QeDpln said:

I have to disagree with that assessment. On their own they are bare bone trees and/or are filled with copy pastes which ought to be avoided.

This way we can minimize CP and provide a nice and substantive tree for players to enjoy.

Thanks for the Feedback though.

 

As I said, this is my personal opinion. Yes, they are bare bone trees with a number of copy paste, but I do not mind seeing such trees in the game. Maybe I can even say I like it. Also clone tanks are not that bad from the side of reality: they show us what the real army of a country consisted of. Isn't it great?.. 

Whatever, I wish good luck for your project. 

[QeDpln 42]

15 hours ago, PikPikker said:

Also clone tanks are not that bad from the side of reality

We do include them, but when possible we try to stick to unique variants or at least ones that wouldn't be included with another nation. And with the V4 tree we have a larger selection of those. That way we can have not just another three T-34-85s to grind  but instead a unique variant of it.

[Kovi_CZE 0]

I like this idea (although I believe Czechoslovakia - and maybe more countries from V4 - has enough vehicles and planes to be a separate nation). I just have a question - why LT. 35 and LT. 38 are missing in suggested V4 ground forces tree?

[QeDpln 42]

4 hours ago, Kovi_CZE said:

why LT. 35 and LT. 38 are missing in suggested V4 ground forces tree?

They are there in the medium/heavy tank line as the LT vz.35 and LT vz.38. There are also some other variants of them in the same line and as premiums.

Thanks for the support.

[Kovi_CZE 0]

20 hours ago, QeDpln said:

They are there in the medium/heavy tank line as the LT vz.35 and LT vz.38. There are also some other variants of them in the same line and as premiums.

Thanks for the support.

Aha, sorry, my mistake  fingers crossed to see these V4 vehicles in the game soon!

Edited April 17, 2020 by Kovi_CZE