Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree

[EddieVanHalo@live 880]

34 minutes ago, CneuHa3_TUR said:

That's true... That's why I was against the idea of such independent trees even including Turkish one, but since they introduced Israeli solution as a Sub Tree starting with Tier IV  (which is the best possible way imo)  I don't see any fence holding us anymore.

 

And we gotta get used to it, cuz this is the modern days battlefield  AKMs against Type 56s, M60s against M60s Mirage IIIs against Mirage Vs... Too many rivals sharing same armaments  You can't keep this away from such a game forever. I think finding a solution for better communication and identifying system in game would end any fear about this.

True the game is what it is so no reason as you say 

[Hannarr 55]

23 hours ago, police2689 said:

ZTL-11(Based on Type 08 armored vehicle), Type 15 light tank, etc.

The ZTL-11 uses the british L7 and look at it and and tell my it's not at least based off the LAV III. the type 15 isn't in game, but it also uses the L7 and a soviet derived autoloader.

 

19 hours ago, EddieVanHalo@live said:

I agree with the above but still think there is room for Turkey in there and maybe some subtrees . I also think there are some good Middle Eastern vehicles not in the game yet  such as the T 34 with the 12.7mm Turret gun

i don't relaly think so. except maybe for a premium or two turkey has nothing that does anything unique that would fit in game. the same goes for the middle east sans israeli, the only other country in the region that can make tanks is iran and they are probably the only country in the world that copies more habitually that china.

 

17 hours ago, Mahiwew said:

Perhaps some research would do you well before making such bold strawman claims

maybe you should learn what a straw man argument is. it would require me to create a falsified position, attribute it to someone then attack it. so maybe you too should read up on chinese military equipment, learn what a strawman is, then learn how to make a point. you didn't make a single point if your post.

[Mahiwew 528]

2 hours ago, Hannarr said:

The ZTL-11 uses the british L7 and look at it and and tell my it's not at least based off the LAV III. the type 15 isn't in game, but it also uses the L7 and a soviet derived autoloader.

By this logic the Abrams is also copy/paste, as it uses a gun that is derivative of the German L7, as does Ariete. It doesn't make sense. Would this mean that the Centurion and Leopard 1 are identical, as well as the M60? They all use the same armaments after all 

 

2 hours ago, Hannarr said:

maybe you should learn what a straw man argument is. it would require me to create a falsified position, attribute it to someone then attack it. so maybe you too should read up on chinese military equipment, learn what a strawman is, then learn how to make a point. you didn't make a single point if your post.

It would appear that I am correct to use said term them, since you evidently didn't look into Chinese equipment in more detail, resulting in a false statement and said "falsified position".
For someone who acts so smart, it would certainly appear that you make claims without doing your research  .

Just cause certain equipment and/or components could be derived from a foreign nation, does not mean that said nation does not produce unique equipment. 
Unique equipment in War Thunder can imply several things;
-Something made from scratch (like a new MBT design)
-Something heavily modified (a modification that would change the vehicle's performance within the game (compare the T-72A to the T-72B3M, the difference in performance is highly noticable)
-Something that cannot be found elsewhere (think of T-34-85 and T-34-85 Gai. These tanks are very similar, but there is only one tree that contains the Gai, making it per definition a unique vehicle)

Most Chinese equipment would fall into the second category; derivative of foreign equipment, but with meaningful changes to it's performance, resulting into a tank that went down it's own path of development instead of following that of another (think of how the ZTZ-59 spawned a whole family of other designs that eventually led up to the ZTZ-96 in it's final form, despite being derived from the T-54A).

That being said, I would once more request you to take a look at the Chinese tree rework proposal I linked in my previous comment.

[lLiberté 345]

On 08/05/2022 at 13:00, Hannarr said:

Wait, you think licenced copies are indigenous? they're obviously not. are you going to try and say that the T129 is indegenous, or the upcoming altay tank.

 

  How is T129 has anything to do with it ? No and no if you’re curious. T129 is based

on Mangusta platform with indigenous sub-systems and Altay is based on K2 with, again, locally produced sub-systems (at least presumably as it is not being serially produced like T129.) You have no idea about military technology do you ? “Licensed Copies”, you are funny huh.

 

Oh even if we follow your logic still more than enough vehicles can be considered as “indigenous”

 

On 08/05/2022 at 13:00, Hannarr said:

there should never be a turkish tech tree.

 Mighty Snail bestowed you with that knowledge right ? 

 

On 08/05/2022 at 13:00, Hannarr said:

Oh really. you clearly don't know much if anything about chinese military equipment. which of their vehicles are indigenous, not a copy of or based on foreign designs? france and italy actually do have indigenous vehicles.

 I mean you sound like you have no idea to be honest. PRC did copied Soviet designs and produced them under new designations, that’s how you acquire know-how. Still, PRC did had their own design which followed Soviet doctrine that does not make them copies. 

 

3 hours ago, Hannarr said:

The ZTL-11 uses the british L7 and look at it and and tell my it's not at least based off the LAV III. the type 15 isn't in game, but it also uses the L7 and a soviet derived autoloader.

 So how using a proven gun makes a vehicle COPY, honestly you are being funny at this point. ZTL's development precedes LAV III's how it is based of LAV III. By your logic every single 6x6 platform copy of whatever the first 6x6 platform is, then every single tank copies Little Willy huh ? 

 

3 hours ago, Hannarr said:

i don't relaly think so. except maybe for a premium or two turkey has nothing that does anything unique that would fit in game. the same goes for the middle east sans israeli, the only other country in the region that can make tanks is iran and they are probably the only country in the world that copies more habitually that china.

 

 None of your claims makes even remotely sense. Israeli and Chinese hardware saw more fighting than maybe half of the modern vehicles only thing wrong with these tree the way they're being implemented. If Gaijin add missing vehicles to those TT I don't see anything wrong with them. On the Turkish TT, I don't even know where to start, you make some claims and that's it, nothing to support or back them up.  I've included 72 vehicles, I'm still claiming %80 of the TT is unique and at least %70 consists of indigenous vehicles. I'm not going to talk about Middle East since it's cluster of equipments from East and West with sprinkles of local upgrades and maybe few indigenous vehicles, I don't know much. 

 

3 hours ago, Hannarr said:

 

maybe you should learn what a straw man argument is. it would require me to create a falsified position, attribute it to someone then attack it. so maybe you too should read up on chinese military equipment, learn what a strawman is, then learn how to make a point. you didn't make a single point if your post.

 I’m not going to escalate this discussion any further unless you actually support whatever you are saying. Topic getting unnecessary heat, let's not turn it into aggressive word exchange even more. 

 

ANYWAYS

 

Since we've derailed a little, its better get back to topic.

 

Looked a bit for possible Azerbaijani additions to TTT;

 

• Azerbaijani BRDM-2 upgraded by ASELSAN to fire OMTAS/UMTAS
• AZCAN Huron with Unknown Weapon System 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Dewastor

[syndrome23 7,097]

Temporarily locked (under permission of suggestion mods) for me to read messages and moderate

[syndrome23 7,097]

I read the messages and it wasn't as bad as I first thought, yet;

 

Please:

 

1- Do not derail topics. Every time this or similar topics turns into "uniqueness" discussion. Maybe we should start a new topic in general for that don't know. But uniquess on M1 Abrams or Centurion/Leo 1 really have no place here. So please avoid. We are, as suggestion and forum mods really tired of this.

2- Do not have personal fights here. You might dislike a person, or just genuinely disagree on their opinion, that is no reason to fight with them and make some personal insults or bad remarks. You need to kindly state your opinion or take it to pm's if necessary. 

 

Whole point of discussing suggestion is helping to game and Devs make progress, and make it a better game. Derailing suggestion topics, making personal fights here doesn't really help anything at all.

 

Thank you for your understanding, unlocked.

[Giray_Yasin_ 14]

[Epsilon160 270]

+1 Nice looking vehicles, could be a pretty good nation if it starts at Rank 4.

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

18 hours ago, Giray_Yasin_ said:

Yes, the T129 ATAK Thread have been passed to Devs... but what's with it under this thread? Here is only for Ground Vehicles. Let's not start again pls 

[Yontzee 1,673]

On 06/05/2022 at 17:15, Dewastor said:

@SubapbaP's work reinvigorated my enthusiasm so I present my take-on of Turkish TT; 

 

Main Battle Tanks

 

 There's total 23 vehicles, 18 researchable split in two lines and 5 premium/squadron/event.

 

First Line

• M47
• M48
• M48A5T1 & T2
• M60A1
• M60A3
• M60A3 TTS
• M60A3 "Fırat"
• M60T
• M60TM

Second Line

• Leopard 1A1A1 & 1A3T1
• Leopard 2A4TR
• Leopard 2 NG
• Altay T2
• Altay T2 AHT
• Leopard "Altay"
• Altay AMT

Premiums

• Leopard 1T
• T-72KAE (or T-72A KAE & T-72B KAE)
• Leopard 2A4 ERA
• Leopard 2 T1
• T-84-120

 

Light Tanks and Wheeled Vehicles

 

There's total 18 vehicles, 13 researchable and 5 premium/squadron/event.

 

Canon Armed Wheeled Vehicles

• Akrep IId 4x4 CSE 90LP (90mm)
• Arma 6x6  CSE 90LP (90mm) 
• Arma 8x8 "Rabdan" 2K23 (100mm & 30mm)
• Arma 8x8 CT-CV 105HP (105mm)

 

Auto-Cannon Armed Wheeled Vehicles

• Akrep IId 4x4 (25mm & 30mm) 
• Arma 8x8 (25mm)
• Arma 8x8 (30mm)
• Arma 8x8 KORHAN (35mm)

 

Light Tanks

• ACV-19 CSE 90LP (90mm)
• ACV-19 2K23 (100mm & 30mm)
• Kaplan MMWT Prototype CT-CV 105HP (105mm)
• Tulpar LT 3105 (105mm)

 

Premiums

• Cobra II 4x4 (25mm)
• Arma 6x6 (25mm)
• Pars III/IV 8x8 (35mm)
• Kaplan MMWT Production CT-CV 105HP (105mm)
• Altuğ 8x8 KORHAN (35mm)

 

Infantry Fighting Vehicles

 

 

There's total 6 vehicles, 5 researchable and only 1 premium/squadron/event.

 

Researchable

• ACV-19 SABER-25 (25mm)
• Kaplan TEBER-30 (30mm)
• Kaplan TEBER-35 (35mm)
• KORHAN (35mm)
• Tulpar MIZRAK-30 (30mm & 2x OMTAS ATGM)

 

Premium

• ACV-15 NEFER (25mm)

 

ATGM Vehicles

 

 There's total 17 vehicles, 12 researchable and 5 premium/squadron/event (maybe minus SPIKE armed Cobra lol)

 

Tracked ATGM Vehicles

• ACV-15 TOW (x1)
• ACV-15 HOT (x1)
• ACV-19 LGM-V (x8 CIRIT Missile)
• Kaplan YALMAN (x4 CIRIT Missile & x2 OMTAS ATGM)
• Kaplan ARCT (x2 OMTAS/Kornet-E/SKIF ATGM)
• Tulpar-S (x5 OMTAS ATGM)

 

Wheeled ATGM Vehicles

• Cobra I 4x4 TOW (x1)
• Ejder Yalçın 4x4 SARP-L ( M134 Gatling Gun & x4 CIRIT Missile)
• Ejder Yalçın 4x4 SERDAR (x2 SKIF ATGM)
• Ejder Yalçın 4x4 MLS (x4 OMTAS/Kornet-E ATGM also compatible with HELLFIRE, JAVELINE and SHERSHEN)
• Pars 4x4 ARCT (x2 OMTAS/Kornet-E/SKIF ATGM)
• ARMA 6x6 (x4 OMTAS ATGM)

 

Premiums

• ACV-15 M220 TOW (x2)
• Yörük 4x4 (x8 2.75" Missiles Hydra(?)/CIRIT(?) Missile)
• Kaplan LAWC-T (x4 OMTAS ATGM)
• Arma 6x6 (x2 OMTAS ATGM)
• Cobra I 4x4 SPIKE (x1)

 

Anti-Air Vehicles

 

 There's total 8 vehicles, 7 researchable and only 1 premium/squadron/event.

 

Researchable

• Cobra I 4x4 (x1 M134 Gatling Gun)
• ZPTP Korkut (2x 35 mm KDC-02)
• Defender 130 ZIPKIN PMSS (x4 STINGER Missiles &  12.7mm Machine Gun)
• Defender 130 IGLA (x4/x6(?) IGLA)
• VURAN 4x4 SLS(?) (x4 SUNGUR)
• M113A2 ATILGAN PMSS (x8 STINGER Missiles &  12.7mm Machine Gun)
• ZPTP HISAR (x6 (?) HISAR-A/HISAR-O(?) Missile)

 

Premiums

• BRDM-2 Stinger/IGLA (x4/x6(?) IGLA)

 

  In total there's 72 vehicles, there are still some other vehicles, haven't add any Azerbaijani vehicles yet (like SKIF armed Cobra or OMTAS armed BRDM). As you can see there's no "proper" tech tree as I could not figure out how to blend those vehicles together. 

Yo I missed this in the comments. This is solid, good balance between in-service vehicles as well as prototypes. Legit job. +1

 

When I can, I can see if I can tweak it to one list for you if you want. 
 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Yontzee

[lLiberté 345]

18 hours ago, Yontzee said:

Yo I missed this in the comments. This is solid, good balance between in-service vehicles as well as prototypes. Legit job. +1

 

 Thank you for your support and interest  

 

18 hours ago, Yontzee said:

When I can, I can see if I can tweak it to one list for you if you want. 
 

 By all means, every bit of help is much appreciated 

 

 I want to include some photographs to my suggestions, here I'm starting with Man Battle Tanks first.

 

On 07/05/2022 at 03:15, Dewastor said:

 

Main Battle Tanks

First Line

• M47
• M48
• M48A5T1 & T2
• M60A1
• M60A3
• M60A3 TTS
• M60A3 "Fırat"
• M60T
• M60TM

Second Line

• Leopard 1A1A1 & 1A3T1
• Leopard 2A4TR
• Leopard 2 NG
• Altay T2
• Altay T2 AHT
• Leopard "Altay"
• Altay AMT

Premiums

• Leopard 1T
• T-72KAE (or T-72A KAE & T-72B KAE)
• Leopard 2A4 ERA
• Leopard 2 T1
• T-84-120

 

M47

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

M48A2C

Spoiler

 

M48A5T1/T2

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

M60A1

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

M60A3

Spoiler

 

M60A3 TTS

Spoiler

 

M60A3 "Fırat"

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

M60T

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

M60TM

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Leopard 1A1A1/1A3T1

Spoiler

 

Leopard 1T

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Leopard 2A4TR

Spoiler

 

Leopard 2 T1

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Leopard 2A4 ERA

Spoiler

 

Leopard 2 NG

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Altay T2

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Altay T2 AHT

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Altay AMT

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Leopard "Altay"

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

T-72KAE

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

T-84-120

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

I'm not fan of addition of low tiers but found this source, it  has invaluable photos from Etimesgut Tank Museum, quite rare to see what's in that "museum" . (Site is about modelling but some member had chance to visit Etimesgut and shared his photos.)

Spoiler

http://www.hobimaket.com/topic/9135-135-tsk-tanklari-ismet-güralp/

 

This particular R35 intrigued my attention, it has long barrelled gun which original R35 did not have. Only Romanian and Lebanese modifications had such upgrades, It looks kind of off though maybe it is just visual, who knows.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Dewastor

[wolfieraps21221 7]

whenn turkey tank tree when when wheeen

[Yontzee 1,673]

12 hours ago, Dewastor said:

 Thank you for your support and interest  

 

 By all means, every bit of help is much appreciated 

 

 I want to include some photographs to my suggestions, here I'm starting with Man Battle Tanks first.

 

 

M47

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

M48A2C

Reveal hidden contents

 

M48A5T1/T2

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

M60A1

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

M60A3

Reveal hidden contents

 

M60A3 TTS

Reveal hidden contents

 

M60A3 "Fırat"

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

M60T

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

M60TM

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

Leopard 1A1A1/1A3T1

Reveal hidden contents

 

Leopard 1T

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Leopard 2A4TR

Reveal hidden contents

 

Leopard 2 T1

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

Leopard 2A4 ERA

Reveal hidden contents

 

Leopard 2 NG

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

Altay T2

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

Altay T2 AHT

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

Altay AMT

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

Leopard "Altay"

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

T-72KAE

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

T-84-120

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'm not fan of addition of low tiers but found this source, it  has invaluable photos from Etimesgut Tank Museum, quite rare to see what's in that "museum" . (Site is about modelling but some member had chance to visit Etimesgut and shared his photos.)

Reveal hidden contents

http://www.hobimaket.com/topic/9135-135-tsk-tanklari-ismet-güralp/

 

This particular R35 intrigued my attention, it has long barrelled gun which original R35 did not have. Only Romanian and Lebanese modifications had such upgrades, It looks kind of off though maybe it is just visual, who knows.

Cool, I’ll start working on it. Give me a few days due to work. 

[hienapunk 1,064]

On 08/05/2022 at 14:18, CneuHa3_TUR said:

That's true... That's why I was against the idea of such independent trees even including Turkish one, but since they introduced Israeli solution as a Sub Tree starting with Tier IV  (which is the best possible way imo)  I don't see any fence holding us anymore.

 

And we gotta get used to it, cuz this is the modern days battlefield  AKMs against Type 56s, M60s against M60s Mirage IIIs against Mirage Vs... Too many rivals sharing same armaments  You can't keep this away from such a game forever. I think finding a solution for better communication and identifying system in game would end any fear about this.

 

As much as I disagree with you on limiting new trees, I absolutely agree with you on the second part. If m60 and t55 are two of the most common tanks ever made and would serve in all sorts of colors, wouldn't it be less realistic if they were just as common as experimental vehicles in the trees?

[Yontzee 1,673]

-delete-

Edited May 16, 2022 by Yontzee

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

19 hours ago, hienapunk said:

 

As much as I disagree with you on limiting new trees, I absolutely agree with you on the second part. If m60 and t55 are two of the most common tanks ever made and would serve in all sorts of colors, wouldn't it be less realistic if they were just as common as experimental vehicles in the trees?

I mean soon or later that's gonna happen.. so 

[Yontzee 1,673]

Here is my take on the Turkish TT starting at Rank V. 

 

 

Turkish Ground Forces Tree

Some notes on the making of this tree:

• I really wanted to start at Rank IV similar to Israel but it would be to sporadic and it would be more difficult to a start than at Rank V. There is no real good vehicles to use for Rank IV that was regularly used (ATGM vehicle, or MBT). The AA is lacking going from the M42A1 Duster to missile systems like the PIMADS. 
• This tree is based on Gaijin's implementation of TT's from Rank V until VII, meaning, it tries to balance the tree based on somewhat of an timeframe the vehicle operated in, focuses on the vehicles capabilities, a focus on vehicles that are being, will be, or formally used (with prototypes used to fill gaps), as well as maintaining how many vehicles there are per branch. 
• The Korhan was added as the premium vehicle due to it being a unique prototype with its deadly 35mm Main Gun. It's function is very similar to the now in-game German PUMA.
• The Turkish Army uses only one Leopard 2NG so it suits well as a Squadron vehicle while the Turkish Army will be accepting up to 40 upgraded Leopard 2A4TR's named the Leopard 2A4T1. 
• I had some issues trying to find a solid wheeled vehicle lineup. Mainly what wheeled vehicles (specifically 6x6 and 8x8) that the Turkish Army uses can I add? Pars 6x6 Scout Command Vehicle? What do they use?
• The T-72KAE is a Turkish-Kazakh upgrade to the Kazakh T-72A and would make a solid, and unique event vehicle.
• This tree doesn't take all the ammo capabilities of each vehicle. I did the best I could though from what I do know.
• This tree is unlocked by achieving Rank V in either the USA or German tree's.

 

• Special thanks to @Dewastor. I'm still working on his complete tree w/ several more vehicles than this one and will be posting that shortly. 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Yontzee

[lLiberté 345]

On 16/05/2022 at 21:46, Yontzee said:

Here is my take on the Turkish TT starting at Rank V. 

 

 

Turkish Ground Forces Tree

Some notes on the making of this tree:

• I really wanted to start at Rank IV similar to Israel but it would be to sporadic and it would be more difficult to a start than at Rank V. There is no real good vehicles to use for Rank IV that was regularly used (ATGM vehicle, or MBT). The AA is lacking going from the M42A1 Duster to missile systems like the PIMADS. 
• This tree is based on Gaijin's implementation of TT's from Rank V until VII, meaning, it tries to balance the tree based on somewhat of an timeframe the vehicle operated in, focuses on the vehicles capabilities, a focus on vehicles that are being, will be, or formally used (with prototypes used to fill gaps), as well as maintaining how many vehicles there are per branch. 
• The Korhan was added as the premium vehicle due to it being a unique prototype with its deadly 35mm Main Gun. It's function is very similar to the now in-game German PUMA.
• The Turkish Army uses only one Leopard 2NG so it suits well as a Squadron vehicle while the Turkish Army will be accepting up to 40 upgraded Leopard 2A4TR's named the Leopard 2A4T1. 
• I had some issues trying to find a solid wheeled vehicle lineup. Mainly what wheeled vehicles (specifically 6x6 and 8x8) that the Turkish Army uses can I add? Pars 6x6 Scout Command Vehicle? What do they use?
• The T-72KAE is a Turkish-Kazakh upgrade to the Kazakh T-72A and would make a solid, and unique event vehicle.
• This tree doesn't take all the ammo capabilities of each vehicle. I did the best I could though from what I do know.
• This tree is unlocked by achieving Rank V in either the USA or German tree's.

 

• Special thanks to @Dewastor. I'm still working on his complete tree w/ several more vehicles than this one and will be posting that shortly. 

 

   It actually looks promising as it is way better organised, great work   Let me pour some input.

 

• Light Tank line, sparse but we could include tracked other IFVs here as you did with Tulpar, very well done on that one. 

          - ACV-15 90mm was never meant for TAF but I think it should stay as there is no other option plus it did not attracted any customers, so there is no possible operator.

          - ACV-15 with 2K23 turret should come after 90mm one, again this one was not meant for TAF but there's no operators, I think should be added as researchable vehicle.

          - Pars III should be part of wheeled-line lets not include it here.

          - Tulpar IFV is armed with Mızrak-30 turret, a dual-fed 30mm auto-cannon also Mızrak-30 turret is capable of carrying 2x OMTAS ATGM. With its ATGM configuration it would be quite capable top tier IFV, par with Type 89. 

          - Kaplan with TEBER-30 instead of Pars III. I haven't seen any Kaplan's with TEBER-35 but as far I'm aware they're interchangeablei though it is not exactly needed. 

          - KORHAN as premium makes sense, there's no orders and haven't seen anything about possibility. It was stated in FNSS' yearly report that it got its tests completed in FNSS test plant.

          - Tulpar has superior armour protection than Kaplan, it should be placed accordingly.

          - Kaplan should be split into Kaplan Prototype and Kaplan Production, Prototype has hard-kill APS. Production would be added as premium Indonesia as its operator and Prototype as researchable. Another solution would be, researchable one labelled as Kaplan while premium one as Harimau with Indonesia as operator country. 

          - Bump Kaplan MT, Tulpar LT and Tulpar IFV to rank VII.

 

• First MBT line is pretty well done and fully fleshed, there's very little room for improvement on that one such as;

          - Turkish Armed Forces operated M48, M48A and M48A2C, depending on the number of operated vehicles variant maybe specified though not a big deal.

          - M60A3 Modernisation under Fırat Project is missing, it will nicely fit between M60A3 TTS and M60T. I would say it has comparable performance with Gal Batash maybe even a little bit more                                    better thanks to hard-kill APS.

 

• Second MBT line is also pretty well done, hell a lot better than my interpretation. I don't have much to say, just want to ask, where do you think Leopard with Altay turret should be as that Leo and AMT only two vehicles with hard-kill APS.

 

• Anti-Air line, that's where I got few questions;

         - Why missile carriers are lower than gun-based Korkut ? Indeed Korkut should be a little higher than Gepard and Type 87 thanks to its ATOM air-burst round and higher RoF cannons. (Korkut uses GDF-003B with 550rpm each while Gepard uses KDA with 340rpm each. Though GDF lack proper APDS/APFSDS, it only has FAPDS and SAPHEI as far as I know.)

         - You should consider adding SUNGUR Missile System, it has approximately 8km range missiles.

         - Also IGLA System, it has salvo ability which is something unique I think ? 

 

• ATGM line is so exciting, I just lot to say;

          - Cobra I with TOW and SKIF are much anticipated vehicles. I strongly advise them to be in the TT, TOW as researchable, SKIF as premium or event.

          - SARP-L Turret System is interesting just wanted to point out.

          - SERDAR Turret System might be added as premium, it has 2x and 4x ATGM configurations. I'm not sure if it can make it to researchable TT as it is never meant for TAF.

          - ACV-ATV should be squadron vehicle as its American counterpart, just to keep its uniqueness. 

          - ARMA MGS should be pinnacle of wheeled vehicle line, it's slightly better than German Radwagen in terms of firepower  (CT-CV 105 is superior to L7) yet Radwagen has superiors mobility ( at least on the paper, it has more horsepower)

          - Kaplan YALMAN was accepted into service, its a great transition vehicle with its 4x Cirri Missile and 2x OMTAS ATGM. 

          - ACV-19 LGM-V had its firing test completed but that's just it as of now, still an interesting vehicle, laser-guided missiles are good predecessor to ATGM. LGM-V was seen in EFES2022 Military Exercise, it is pretty much confirmed that its in-service as of 2022.

          - With removal of Arma from ATGM line top tier should be like Pars > Kaplan > Tulpar 

          - Arma 6x6 with 2x OMTAS, good candidate for any sort of premium. 

          - LAWC-T, obscure yet interesting.

          - I mean come on, where is Cobra with Spike who does not want a vehicle from 00's with fire-and-forget missile 

          

On 16/05/2022 at 21:46, Yontzee said:

 

• I had some issues trying to find a solid wheeled vehicle lineup. Mainly what wheeled vehicles (specifically 6x6 and 8x8) that the Turkish Army uses can I add? Pars 6x6 Scout Command Vehicle? What do they use?

 

  There is two different projects for wheeled vehicles; ÖMTTZA/Özel Maksatlı Taktik Tekerlekli Zırhlı Araç (SPTWAV/Special Purpose Tactical Wheeled Armored Vehicle) for Turkish Land Forces and MKKA/Mayına Karşı Korumalı Araç (MPV/Mine Protected Vehicle) for Special Forces. FNSS received contract for MPV with The PARS IV 6x6 S-Ops which is armed with only machine guns. I read somewhere that Otokar received contacted for SPTWAV during IDEF 2021 with Arma 8x8 but I just cannot find where did I read it and there's no other mentions.

Anyways, I'm will treat it as Arma is chosen;

 

• My suggestions for wheeled vehicles line is mixing auto cannon and cannon armed vehicles together and eliminating some in process; 

          - Akrep IId 25/30mm and Akrep IId 90mm > Arma 8x8 25mm and Arma 6x6 90mm > Arma 8x8 30mm (with OMTAS ATGM) and Arma 8x8 100mm (Rabdan, this one might be added as premium I'm not sure) > Arma 8x8 35mm KORHAN Turret System and Arma 8x8 105mm

 

**Note that nearly every turret system offered by Turkish companies has two versions; manned and unmanned. I suggest unmanned versions should be used if its not competitive in its BR.

 

@Yontzee appreciate your effort, that's one hell of a TT 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Dewastor

[SubapbaP 32]

@Dewastor Do you think the Cirit missile in your suggestion will work in the game? It was only designed for lightly armored vehicles and infantry. So the missile will struggle against most ground vehicles. Does the missile have proximity fuse so that it can be used against air targets? I am currently working on a separate suggestion and I am not sure if I should add ACV-15 with Cirit missiles. Any help will be appreciated about this missile.

[lLiberté 345]

1 hour ago, SubapbaP said:

@Dewastor Do you think the Cirit missile in your suggestion will work in the game? It was only designed for lightly armored vehicles and infantry. So the missile will struggle against most ground vehicles. 

  In theory, yes it should. It has three different warhead (Roketsan manual states only two though); Multi Purpose, High Explosive and Thermobaric. Thing is, there's no concrete data about warheads such as their penetration capabilities and explosive mass, at least as much as I'm aware. All three warheads possibly used against armored vehicles, cannot comment about their performance though. 

I would say in-game Hydras are comparable in terms of performance except those are unguided thus requires a salvo to destroy vehicles. Spanish wiki states warhead has 3 kilograms of explosive though does not specify which one. Theoretically 3 kilograms of high explosive delivered in high-precision would be deadly especially if it has a ability to guide more than one missile. 

 

1 hour ago, SubapbaP said:

Does the missile have proximity fuse so that it can be used against air targets?

  There's no mention in Roketsan's page or any wiki pages, haven't read anything about it having proximity in forum too. It's a niche armament to be honest, I'm not sure what's the exact use of 70mm high precision missiles in real life. 

 

1 hour ago, SubapbaP said:

 I am currently working on a separate suggestion and I am not sure if I should add ACV-15 with Cirit missiles. Any help will be appreciated about this missile.

  Can't wait to see

[SubapbaP 32]

@Dewastor Thanks for your answers. Yeah 3kg of exposives would be enough but I have decided not to include it for now.

Edited May 28, 2022 by SubapbaP

[lLiberté 345]

EFES2022 Military Exercise was just a festival, TAF showcased much of its self-propelled anti-tank weaponry, such as LGM-V, ACV-15 TOW and Pars 4x4 ARC-T. 

 

LGM-V

 

LGM-V Firing

 

ACV-15 TOW

 

 

Pars 4x4 ARC-T

 

Pars 4x4 ARC-T Firing

 

 Alongside ATGM vehicles, there were some other military hardware showcased;

 

ACV-19/15 SABER-25

 

ACV-19/15 SABER-25 Firing

 

 

M48 Possibly M48A5T2

[SubapbaP 32]

This is the final form of my Turkish Tree. Unfortunately, as we have this particular suggestion, no other suggestion will be accepted whether it is a full tree or semi tree like Israel. (Not sure about sub-branch suggestion under a certain country.)

 

[hienapunk 1,064]

1 hour ago, SubapbaP said:

This is the final form of my Turkish Tree. Unfortunately, as we have this particular suggestion, no other suggestion will be accepted whether it is a full tree or semi tree like Israel. (Not sure about sub-branch suggestion under a certain country.)

 

 

If you try to make it as a subtree they should accept it, if there isn't already a subtree suggestion. Unfortunately the "only one suggestion for each country tree" and locking out threads that get to consideration go a long way to kill productive forum discussion around here. :/

Edited June 8, 2022 by hienapunk

[SubapbaP 32]

15 minutes ago, hienapunk said:

 

If you try to make it as a subtree they should accept it, if there isn't already a subtree suggestion. Unfortunately the "only one suggestion for each country tree" and locking out threads that get to consideration go a long way to kill productive forum discussion around here. :/

I did suggest the nation as a subtree for the ranks of 5,6,7 and 8(just like how Israel was introduced). It was deleted after around an hour. And when I messaged a suggestion moderator, He said ‘We already have a suggestion for this particular idea and unfortunately we can't have multiple of the same topics.’ although PikPikker’s suggestion is not a subtree suggestion.